Opteron 165, 170. or 3800x2

[topjimmy]

Greetings all,

I did a search and read all the opteron threads and they certaily seem promising. I'm building a new rig and need some advice,

Just like the title says..

The 165 is the cheapest
The 170 and the 3800 x2 are about the same. I do plan on OC' ing (air only..)

Here is the rest of the system

MB DFI LP UT Ultra
Video 800gt02 (bios flashed)
Mem OCZ plat rev 2 2x512 or OCZ value 2x1048 (could use some advice there too)
PS OCZ modstream 450
air cooler will prob be the xp90 or si120

What would you all do?

Later
JimC

 

[SynthDude2001]

Unless you really need the 10x multiplier (maybe if your board can't really handle high HTT speeds), I'd recommend going with the Opteron 165 - it'll save you some money (and it's what I'm going to do too). The 165 and the 170 should overclock similarly (unless of course your board holds you back on the 165), and they both have the advantage over the 3800+ X2 because of the 1MB L2 cache per core. Since you have the DFI board, you should be fine with the high HTT speeds.

 

[imported_situman]

I thought higher multipliers gives you best overall performance and bandwidth.

 

[Shimmishim]

No. Lower mults + high htt gives you better performance than high mults + low htt

e.g.

9 x 300 is better than
10 x 270

assuming same ram timings and all other hardware being the same

 

[Madellga]

I have the same doubt. Even with the DFI, I would go with a 10x.

The 9x is a killer to me. I don't like to have the HTT so high (300+) - it is not 100% sure to work. With 10x you can get good speed @ 260~280.

 

[EXEEMLITE]

You and I have ended up on the same road, I am fighting the urge to get the 170, because of the 200mhz, for about 80 more $. I will definately overclock but also only on air. choices choices choices, what to do?
Guess I will just have to kick back and do some more research, I really appreciate all of the opinions and most seem to point toward the 165... so That may be the final direction. I just want to make the right decision and not regret it later. Keep the opinions ocming guys.

 

[Diogenes2]

Originally posted by: Shimmishim
No. Lower mults + high htt gives you better performance than high mults + low htt

e.g.

9 x 300 is better than
10 x 270

assuming same ram timings and all other hardware being the same

Only if the RAM is 1:1 .. Even then, the performance gain is not much..

Higher CPU clock is what matters most..

 

[topjimmy]

So is it worth the extra money for the 170 over the 165? The 165 should do all that the 3800 x2 can...Am I right?

What about the memory? Ive read Zebo's post on how timings don't really make much difference in the real world. Would 2 gigs of value be able to give me the room to really get the 165 humming?

I hate to buy a processor that I won't be happy with.

Keep the comments coming, the more the better.

Later
JimC

 

[Zebo]

165! Always buy the cheapest chip in an iteration...everything else is a rip off since they are all the same chip to people like us. And even stock the higher end chips are a rip off. Is a 3800 Venice 200% faster than a 3000 venice? Nope maybe 20% tops should cost 20% more not 200%! And in theroy and practice, since they are same chip, They OC same. I can't count the number of times noobs are depressed they can only overclock thier 3800 200 more Mhz over stock while expecting clocks like us value shoppers are getting like 1000Mhz overclocks! End result is the same! 2600-2800Mhz on air! That's just one example...Same goes for every chip in a series.

165 comes with more cache than 3800+ .. From opteron low tolerance line (ie cherry picked) no brainer if you ask me

(with your motherboard at least since it can use a 9x multi to full potential some users like myself, have issue until I get another mobo which should be here tomorrow.. DFI)

 

[Zebo]

you want crucial 2 x 1024 value ram. Search over at HardOCP. Best ram you can buy in that size is Ballistix tracer.. this value ram is same stuff (Micron -5B D) just not speed binned but most people clock almost as high.

 

[nealh]

Originally posted by: Zebo
you want crucial 2 x 1024 value ram. Search over at HardOCP. Best ram you can buy in that size is Ballistix tracer.. this value ram is same stuff (Micron -5B D) just not speed binned but most people clock almost as high.

Zebo..I bought 2x 1GB crucial valuram from Newegg in July when everyone thought it was binned ballistix..I did not get 5B chips..mine are 5G..they run 250mhz@3-3-3-7-1t 2.8v on DFI SLI DR bios 623-2 in yellow slots...also very minimal tinkering with timings

I love this ram although Angry at DFI does not recommend it on DFI mobos...seems does not work well for everyone

 

[Furen]

As Zebo said, the 165 is the best chip to buy unless you know for sure that you will be HTT limited (ie. you plan on OCing with dry ice or something). Crucial ram is very very good, so I'd recommend going for that, though I'd go for value over Ballistix myself (and stay with low latency using a divider, but that's just me) since it's quite a bit cheaper.

 

[xenolith]

Originally posted by: Diogenes2

Originally posted by: Shimmishim
No. Lower mults + high htt gives you better performance than high mults + low htt

e.g.

9 x 300 is better than
10 x 270

assuming same ram timings and all other hardware being the same

Only if the RAM is 1:1 .. Even then, the performance gain is not much..

Higher CPU clock is what matters most..

1:1 mem divider improves performance with an on die mem controller? Do you have anything to back that up?

 

[bunnyfubbles]

All these people afraid of the 9x multiplier...

A. he's got a DFI
B. 9x300 is 2.7GHz, unlikely for the Opteron 165 on air like he's planning (although it would be sweet). Even though his DFI should be able to handle it with ease, chances are HT will be well under 300...

 

[topjimmy]

Great the 165 it is.

As for the memory, I'm kind of limited to one source at the moment (using a P.O.) I am going to go through Monarch. They don't carry the Crucial Ram. They have a couple of 2 gig kits that I am considering ranging from $205 to $250. At the low end is the OCZ value, then there are 3 at about the same price
OCZ Value $205
OCZ Platinum$254
OCZ Copper(at least that is the color of the spreader)$235
Patriot Low latency (2-3-2-5)$249
PQI mirrored black $218 (never heard much about this company)

Of those which would you choose?

Later
JimC.

 

[Diogenes2]

Originally posted by: xenolith

1:1 mem divider improves performance with an on die mem controller? Do you have anything to back that up?

I'm not sure what your arguing for?


You have this in your Sig:

" Memory: 2x512MB TwinMos SP @242MHz 2-2-2-1T 3.2v "

Looks like you are going to a lot of trouble for no improvement in performance ....

 

[michal1980]

what if the cost difference is like 40 bucks (not 80-100)
monarch has the 170 oem for 356

 

[topjimmy]

You must mean $356

 

[michal1980]

Originally posted by: topjimmy
You must mean $356

fixed.
if it was 156, i probably wouldn't post until i got mine.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: topjimmy
Great the 165 it is.

As for the memory, I'm kind of limited to one source at the moment (using a P.O.) I am going to go through Monarch. They don't carry the Crucial Ram. They have a couple of 2 gig kits that I am considering ranging from $205 to $250. At the low end is the OCZ value, then there are 3 at about the same price
OCZ Value $205
OCZ Platinum$254
OCZ Copper(at least that is the color of the spreader)$235
Patriot Low latency (2-3-2-5)$249
PQI mirrored black $218 (never heard much about this company)

Of those which would you choose?

Later
JimC.

This for 1024:
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant...PROD&Product_Code=140509&AFFIL=dt&NR=1

Two of them for 2048
Or
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant...de=140226&Category_Code=Unbuffered_OCZ
Or
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant...duct_Code=140291&Category_Code=DDR-PDP

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: michal1980

Originally posted by: topjimmy
You must mean $356

fixed.
if it was 156, i probably wouldn't post until i got mine.

LOL- Yea not huge I suppose.. 10x is nice. But I just never would based on priciple. (pay more for same chip to me)

 

[Furen]

Just so everyone knows: there's no performance benefit WHATSOEVER for running "1:1" on A64s, because you are never running one to one. The only benefit that you could have is having a higher memory bandwidth if your latency is low enough, but you could also use a lower memory divider (higher memory speed) for that.

 

[xenolith]

Originally posted by: Diogenes2

Originally posted by: xenolith

1:1 mem divider improves performance with an on die mem controller? Do you have anything to back that up?

I'm not sure what your arguing for?


You have this in your Sig:

" Memory: 2x512MB TwinMos SP @242MHz 2-2-2-1T 3.2v "

Looks like you are going to a lot of trouble for no improvement in performance ....

I'm arguing? I was just asking if you have any info I haven't seen yet that shows proof that running 1:1 mem divider has any benefit at all. Why are people so sensitive here?

And as Furen, described, my system has a Newark with a high (12) multi and memory that can handle 242HTT @ low latency, the fact that the divider is at 1:1 is irrelevent.

If I had a CPU that only had a 9 multi with my current memory, I wouldn't hesitate to use a 166 or 150 mem divider to maximize my CPU clock.

BTW, FYI, with an on die mem controller, you're always using a divider (even 1:1) because there's no memory yet that can run 2000 to 3000mhz, the same clock as a CPU.

 

[Diogenes2]

Originally posted by: xenolith


BTW, FYI, with an on die mem controller, you're always using a divider (even 1:1) because there's no memory yet that can run 2000 to 3000mhz, the same clock as a CPU.

FYI , I've never discussed this with anyone who thought 1:1 ( when talking about memory speed on A64 ) meant:

CPU Clock : Memory Clock


... Guess I can't say that anymore....

 

[Heckler 5th]

nice cpu, xeno. u get it at shentech?