Opteron 165 start.

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: Avalon

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: lopri
Me thinks at this point if someone wants a SLI board they should go for a dual x16 lane board.

nah thats for avid gamers to gain small amounts IMO, where as the DFI eXpert will bring the best out of your CPU and RAM, granted the asus has 8 phase power, but I don?t think the board will really compare to DFI?s new board, which now has 4 phase over the previous 3 phase

The Asus hit somewhere around 310HTT, which is a huge jump from typical mediocre Asus. What is this new DFI NF4 Expert supposed to bring to the table? A new chipset?

310HTT hmm that?s not bad didn?t realise it reached that high of a HTT, the board looks nice (Fanless is always good ) but the lack of PCI slots if using SLI is poor, also you are going to need some good case cooling i would presume otherwise it is going to be a little oven inside the case.

The Expert basically irons out any of the problems that were present on the previous board mainly the vDIMM issues, and it still uses the same chipset, and it should be the best overclocking platform for s939, there is yet to be any reviews as it is not in circulation but i have high hopes for when it is reviewed. I am going to get this board when i make the transition to a PCI-e GFX card, this will guarantee i get the best performance from my CPU (x9 multi top locked), and my soon to be OCZ 2 x 1GB 4000EB sticks

And if i have been a good boy this year maybe Santa will get me a 7800 GTX 512MB card for xmas, although i foresee a big lump of cole

 

[tvdang7]

rich what temps are u getting?. i want one and im not sure if my zalman7000b is sufficient enough

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: tvdang7
rich what temps are u getting?. i want one and im not sure if my zalman7000b is sufficient enough

well with the current clock settings see sig, i am idling at about 42 degrees, and load of 56 degrees, and i am using an xp90 with a panaflo 92mm 47CFM fan, with of course AS5. I can get 2.8Ghz stable but require better cooling as it gets quite toasty, hence my soon to be installed water setup.

To get my max load temp i used S&M, as dual primes only got it up to 53 degrees. and running quake 4 gets it to about 53 degrees as well.

I am also able to run 2.7Ghz on 1.52v, but have to run a divider of 166 which reduces my purpose built OCing RAM to only 236Mhz instead of the current 289Mhz with a CAS of 2.5, so i am opting for the 100Mhz drop in CPU speed for the time being so that to get the full potential from my RAM, as previously stated I will be upgrading to 2gigs soon so the 166 divider will be fine.

I created a thread about my experiences HERE if you are interested

 

[tommy2q]

do i need any processor drivers to use this opteron 165 properly?

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: tommy2q
do i need any processor drivers to use this opteron 165 properly?

no the opteron 1xx s939 is only an X2 with a different CPUID, its an E6 Toledo core with obvioulsy different top locked multi's

EDIT: Well except for the AMD driver and MS Hotfix that is needed for all AMD dual cores, there is no difference from a normal Athlon X2

 

[KristopherKubicki]

This thread is going on the Front Page. Congrats!

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2591

Kristopher

 

[cw42]

So, can we get some benches of a X2 3800 vs Opteron 165? How will the extra cache compare to the 200mhz difference in speed?

 

[coomar]

should be fairly equal (with the edge to the 3800), its just that the opterons are overclocking better and its cheaper

 

[tvdang7]

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: tvdang7
rich what temps are u getting?. i want one and im not sure if my zalman7000b is sufficient enough

well with the current clock settings see sig, i am idling at about 42 degrees, and load of 56 degrees, and i am using an xp90 with a panaflo 92mm 47CFM fan, with of course AS5. I can get 2.8Ghz stable but require better cooling as it gets quite toasty, hence my soon to be installed water setup.

To get my max load temp i used S&M, as dual primes only got it up to 53 degrees. and running quake 4 gets it to about 53 degrees as well.

I am also able to run 2.7Ghz on 1.52v, but have to run a divider of 166 which reduces my purpose built OCing RAM to only 236Mhz instead of the current 289Mhz with a CAS of 2.5, so i am opting for the 100Mhz drop in CPU speed for the time being so that to get the full potential from my RAM, as previously stated I will be upgrading to 2gigs soon so the 166 divider will be fine.

I created a thread about my experiences HERE if you are interested

i dont get it do u NEED 2 gigs to be able to be 1:1? just wondering i have 2 gigs of ram thats can do around 280 and i dont want to use my dividers either cuz whast the point of having kick ass ram? lol

 

[Madellga]

Hey, you are all saying that the 165 is based on the Toledo, but I saw somewhere that the 165 has 128Kb L1 cache. The Toledo has 256Kb L1 cache.

We all know that the 1024Kb L2 cache brings a little advantage (San Diego x Venice), but what about the L1 cache being smaller?

How important that is? Any benchmarks available?

I bought yesterday a X2 3800 Manchester (box not yet opened), know I wonder if I should return it and get a 165.

What is the big advantage of the 165 over the X2 3800? Can it overclock better?

The way I see now:
X2 3800 has L1 256Kb L2 512Kb (per core)
Multiplier 10x

165 has L1 128Kb L2 1024KB (per core)
Multiplier 9x

Price being similar, I would think the X2 would still be better for most of people (specially without a DFI board).

What I am missing here?

Please let me know, I would hate opening the X2 3800 and finding out that the 165 was the beast to get.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: RichUK
running quake 4 gets it to about 53 degrees as well.

Are you sure about that? I find that Quake 4 is very gentle on CPU (but harsh on GPU of course). On my X2, my CPU loads around 25%~40% with ForceWare 81.85.

 

[Brunnis]

Originally posted by: Madellga
Hey, you are all saying that the 165 is based on the Toledo, but I saw somewhere that the 165 has 128Kb L1 cache. The Toledo has 256Kb L1 cache.

No, there's no difference in L1 cache size between any Athlon64 or Opteron. All of them have 128kB L1 per core, be it single or dual core CPUs.

 

[enzoDK]

#tommy2q Has your alias anything to do with the Golden Child movie? q:?

 

[lopri]

Ah.. damn.. I hate you all.. you just cost me $300. I checked the RTPE and saw the price soaring already, except at Monarch. I was like.. 'what the hell, worst comes worst I can sell it back on ebay...'

 

[Madellga]

Originally posted by: Brunnis

Originally posted by: Madellga
Hey, you are all saying that the 165 is based on the Toledo, but I saw somewhere that the 165 has 128Kb L1 cache. The Toledo has 256Kb L1 cache.

No, there's no difference in L1 cache size between any Athlon64 or Opteron. All of them have 128kB L1 per core, be it single or dual core CPUs.

Yes, you are right. The store I bought the X2 had it listed as having a L1 256Kb cache.
I checked against AMD and it has 128Kb.

I should have known it better and checked at AMD before posting.

Nevertheless, the price difference is only 10 bucks. They have the Opteron 170 for 60 bucks more than the X3 3800, 140 less than the X2 4400.

 

[KristopherKubicki]

Hey, you are all saying that the 165 is based on the Toledo, but I saw somewhere that the 165 has 128Kb L1 cache. The Toledo has 256Kb L1 cache.

It's actually a Denmark. I don't know how Toledo got into RTPE.

Kristopher

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: KristopherKubicki

Hey, you are all saying that the 165 is based on the Toledo, but I saw somewhere that the 165 has 128Kb L1 cache. The Toledo has 256Kb L1 cache.

It's actually a Denmark. I don't know how Toledo got into RTPE.

Kristopher

I was under the impression that the 165 was a Toledo, considering it even has CD on the IHS steppings which indicate it is a Toledo core inside.

Hey, you are all saying that the 165 is based on the Toledo, but I saw somewhere that the 165 has 128Kb L1 cache. The Toledo has 256Kb L1 cache

Well each core in the 165's case, has 128Kb of L1 cache (64Kb for Data and 64Kb for Code), and 1Mb for L2 cache. Now because there are two cores, the CPU simply has double the said figures on the same socket, AKA:

L1 Cache: (64Kb for data and 64Kb for Code) 128Kb total, X 2 for both cores grand total of 256Kb f L1 cache

L2 Cache: 1Mb for each core, X 2 for a grand total of 2Mb total L2 cache

simple.

It should be marketed per core not in total, because its not as if the two cores can share each others cache. Some retailers might like to put the total amount of cache and not cache per core so it sounds better, i suppose the high numbers are supposed to look more attractive to the uninformed buyer, just like the Pentium 4 series with high Ghz rating.

Originally posted by: lopri

Originally posted by: RichUK
running quake 4 gets it to about 53 degrees as well.

Are you sure about that? I find that Quake 4 is very gentle on CPU (but harsh on GPU of course). On my X2, my CPU loads around 25%~40% with ForceWare 81.85.

YES i am otherwise i would not have stated that and I am running the latest Forceware drivers, i will get a screenie of MBM5 running, and also the nVidia control panel temperature setting whilst Alt + Tabbed out of Quake 4 to show you.

i dont get it do u NEED 2 gigs to be able to be 1:1? just wondering i have 2 gigs of ram thats can do around 280 and i dont want to use my dividers either cuz whast the point of having kick ass ram? lol

no no .. i am buying 2 gigs of RAM purely as an upgrade for games etc nothing to do with 1:1 performance. I will be running a divider once i get my OCZ 4000EB as they do not OC as well as the current RAM i have, i am looking for larger capacity of RAM. By the way what 2Gig sticks do you have, as 280Mhz is quite high?

 

[nealh]

Originally posted by: RichUK
]
I am also able to run 2.7Ghz on 1.52v, but have to run a divider of 166 which reduces my purpose built OCing RAM to only 236Mhz instead of the current 289Mhz with a CAS of 2.5, so i am opting for the 100Mhz drop in CPU speed for the time being so that to get the full potential from my RAM, as previously stated I will be upgrading to 2gigs soon so the 166 divider will be fine.

I created a thread about my experiences HERE if you are interested

running the ram at 1:1 will provide little if any benefit you are better off @2.7 with extra cpu speed..Zebo has shown in a nexcellent thread cpu speed is most important

I would not waste my money on tight timings...I tried some OCZ PC 3200 GOLD 2x 512@2-2-2-5-1t 200mhz and found my crucial valuram 2x 1gb@ 3-3-3-7-1t 250mhz is better overall....I saw no difference between the ram at 200mhz speed...valuram was cas 2.5@200....

I spent $80 more and got a 2 gb few mo back..very happy I did that....tight timings were not very helpful

the PC3200 Gold was BH5 and OCed like crap even with increased voltage on my DFI SLI DR..I could not even get 227mhz...errors on memtest86...I had to run the ram @196 to be memory error free

 

[Zebo]

Hey, you are all saying that the 165 is based on the Toledo, but I saw somewhere that the 165 has 128Kb L1 cache. The Toledo has 256Kb L1 cache.
------------------------
Yea same deal as toledo but AMD decides to call opteron version Denmark.
All A64's have 64KB+64KB lvl1... You must mean LVL2 in which case this chip is identical to 4400 and 4800+ Toledos in that it has 2MB lvl2. 1MB per core.


We all know that the 1024Kb L2 cache brings a little advantage (San Diego x Venice), but what about the L1 cache being smaller?
----------------------
It aint all that don't let anyone fool you. Nothing wrong with manchester and venice cores. And since you got it... well.


What I am missing here?
--------------------
The advantages of the Opteron 165 are obvious: It is cheaper. It's got a Toledo Core with all its Cache L2 enabled. Even if it only overclocks to the same Frecuency than the A64X2 3800+ average (2.4 GHz?), it will still be faster because it got the extra Cache L2 that in Athlons 64 Performance Rating Model is worth around 200 points like an extra 200 MHz. It's Opteron which tend to be higher Quality silicon from high clocks we see so far.


The Disadvantage is it's 9x.. remedied by buying a decent board.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: tvdang7
rich what temps are u getting?. i want one and im not sure if my zalman7000b is sufficient enough

well with the current clock settings see sig, i am idling at about 42 degrees, and load of 56 degrees, and i am using an xp90 with a panaflo 92mm 47CFM fan, with of course AS5. I can get 2.8Ghz stable but require better cooling as it gets quite toasty, hence my soon to be installed water setup.

To get my max load temp i used S&M, as dual primes only got it up to 53 degrees. and running quake 4 gets it to about 53 degrees as well.

I am also able to run 2.7Ghz on 1.52v, but have to run a divider of 166 which reduces my purpose built OCing RAM to only 236Mhz instead of the current 289Mhz with a CAS of 2.5, so i am opting for the 100Mhz drop in CPU speed for the time being so that to get the full potential from my RAM, as previously stated I will be upgrading to 2gigs soon so the 166 divider will be fine.

I created a thread about my experiences HERE if you are interested

Thanks for that info rich.

Here is a link to rich's OC guys: (He tried this over a month ago for us and I was paying attention knowing AMD would cut prives in half on this chip....he got back when 165 was $470USD!!!)
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=28&threadid=1714472&enterthread=y

Mines identical stepping and date code.

 

[Rustler]

I ordered a 170 for my Asus Rig for 387 from Mwave. I have a X2 4400 in my DFI rig

 

[Derektm]

Originally posted by: Rustler
I ordered a 170 for my Asus Rig for 387 from Mwave. I have a X2 4400 in my DFI rig

Same here. You got the 2day shipping right?

 

[racer42]

Does AMD use the same retail fan/heatsink for A64 and Opterons? I have a 3200 winchester already and I'm thinking about ordering the OEM version of the 165.

 

[Derektm]

Originally posted by: racer42
Does AMD use the same retail fan/heatsink for A64 and Opterons? I have a 3200 winchester already and I'm thinking about ordering the OEM version of the 165.

No I believe the Dual Cores come with heatpipe'd heatsinks that are bigger....these chips put out more heat since they have 2 cores.

btw if you get that OEM you wont have a good warranty. I had an Opteron 146 (single core) that I'm already having to send in for warranty. IMHO its a bad idea to buy it without warranty.

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: Derektm

Originally posted by: racer42
Does AMD use the same retail fan/heatsink for A64 and Opterons? I have a 3200 winchester already and I'm thinking about ordering the OEM version of the 165.

No I believe the Dual Cores come with heatpipe'd heatsinks that are bigger....these chips put out more heat since they have 2 cores.

btw if you get that OEM you wont have a good warranty. I had an Opteron 146 (single core) that I'm already having to send in for warranty. IMHO its a bad idea to buy it without warranty.

I agree, the retail box 165 is only about $12 more at Monarch than the OEM is, and you get a longer warranty and a pretty nice heatsink for that money. I guess the warranty isn't too much of an issue if you overclock (which I believe voids the warranty?), but the heatsink by itself is worth at least $12...