Optimistic's Skimping Guide

[optimistic]

SCENARIO: Okay you got this set amount of money to spend. Which allows you to splurge on a few things. Ask yourself, should I put my extra money into getting a quality monitor and more memory? Or should I treat myself to something else? Keep in mind everything you have chosen so far is of quality, what-you-can-live-with, bare necessity components. Now you must choose on what part of your new setup to spend a little extra money on Hope this makes sense so far.

Here, IMHO, is how I think you should set your priority in spending when building a new computer. Now if you're rich, you won't be needing to skimp ?so why are YOU even reading this?

[Disclaimer:] (To guard against flamers)
And by IMHO, I'm speaking as the average computer user. -The typical: gamer/ internet surfer/ digital media manipulator/ workstation procrastinator. But of course, we'll get your difference in opinion from your power-users, followed by your-know-it-alls (like me), and your benchmark-extremists. Again this is just my humble opinion. But feel free to post your reasons why you think ______ part should be given more priority.
[/Disclaimer:]


MONITOR: I whole-heartedly believe your monitor is your most important investment when looking to build a computer. I think it?s very important to put your money into buying a nice monitor. A good 19inch CRT or 17inch LCD if you can afford it. That?s the only part of the computer you will have to live with day-in-day-out. Your eyes will be happier if you put aside more money into this part of your budget.

RAM: Of course RAM is very important. Try to go 512mb if you can.

HARD DRIVE: This part of the computer will get used up quickly if you're on broadband. Try to get one with enough headroom to last. If you?re not on broadband, you can probably give this less priority.

MOTHERBOARD: Of course you want a motherboard with the features you want from a reputable brand to insure dependability. It's kind of like finding a mate. Find one that feels right and make you the most happy

PROCESSOR: I give the processor less priority. Why? You can get away without running the latest & greatest. No one is going to notice if your Content Creation Performance is not the fastest. And with the ever turbulent changing CPU prices you?re better off with NOT getting the latest & greatest. This part of the computer will be depreciating in price the fastest. Of course there are your "computing power" implications. You need "this much power" so your computer will "last you longer." What does that mean exactly? "Spend $100 more and get the faster processor so it can last (what?) a month longer in the whole 3year/12mon/6mon you own your computer before upgrading?

VIDEO CARD IMO, this is the part of the computer you shouldn't be putting that *much* money into. I don't see how people like spending $250+ for a 18000 3DMark capable video card!! As long as your card can play at a reasonable fps with a resolution you like, then stick with that! I don't see the reasoning behind playing a game at 150fps. The human eye can't even tell the difference at that point.

OPTICAL DRIVES: Optical drives are a safe bet, hence them being in the bottom of the "priority list." Top quality drives vs the el cheapos are only separated by a matter of dollars. Go with what you need & a brand you trust.


And of course there are your OTHER peripherals; mice, keyboards, network cards, printers, speakers -but I won't get into that. Too many variables.
Also, some people put priority into buying a brand-name power supply. But I've never ran into any problems with them, so I haven't given them much thought. But you can post your opinion about them though, and rank them accordingly, in order of importance.

Yep, that's all the advice I have. Post your own opinions/ disagreements/ problems. And also tell me if you agree with me to some extent

 

[Ben88]

I would swap mobo and ram. Other than that I agree. My Sony G400 is the most important part of my system.

 

[ed21x]

my list (in order of importance of quality)

motherboard <~ the heart of everything- must be rock solid
monitor
processor
ram
hd
video card
cdrom

 

[dj4005]

My list in order of importance

monitor - a good monitor will typically last you through two computers. choose wisely
case - get one with a big enough power supply and rack space to accomodate everything you'll likely ever need
motherboard - the heart of everything- must be rock solid
processor - while it CAN be updated later, getting rid of a CPU is a pain
hd - get the biggest fastest practical, add a second when #1 runs out
video card - this my move up or down the list depending on your aps
ram - you can ALWAYS add more later, so don't fill your slots
cdrom - a commodity, not that big a deal

Average users replace their systems every couple of years, so choose a system that won't bankrupt you now, but that IS likely to last you till the replacement comes along.

 

[new2pc]

dvd-rom and cd read/write is better than just the cd read/write?
cd read/write with dvd combination is more expensive than dvd-rom plus cd read/write
I want to wait for the dvd read/write(too expensive now).

 

[spaceman]

my golden rule of thumb is that i refuse to spend more than $100 dollars on any given part aside from the monitor.

 

[Wolfsraider]

sorry but i disagree.

my top priorities are cpu mobo video ram and hdd

monitor comes next

size of the hdd isn't as important as speed to me

VIDEO CARD IMO, this is the part of the computer you shouldn't be putting that *much* money into. I don't see how people like spending $250+ for a 18000 3DMark capable video card!! As long as your card can play at a reasonable fps with a resolution you like, then stick with that! I don't see the reasoning behind playing a game at 150fps. The human eye can't even tell the difference at that point.

it isn't so much the framerates i am "intrested" in but rather the features. the difference between a 8500 and a 9700 is more than framerates-while speed in games is nice the visual quality is imho much better on a 9700.there is also the fact i can turn on all quality and not affect gameplay.the 8500 while able to enable quality settings takes a tremendous hit in game play.
the monitor is important in bringing the visuals to the table but is only as good as the video card.3d mark is sh#$.
but the quality of my gaming is much more important.

take ut2003 sure it will run on an 8500 with quality set at max but not near as smooth or detailed as on my 9700.

PROCESSOR: I give the processor less priority. Why? You can get away without running the latest & greatest. No one is going to notice if your Content Creation Performance is not the fastest. And with the ever turbulent changing CPU prices you?re better off with NOT getting the latest & greatest. This part of the computer will be depreciating in price the fastest. Of course there are your "computing power" implications. You need "this much power" so your computer will "last you longer." What does that mean exactly? "Spend $100 more and get the faster processor so it can last (what?) a month longer in the whole 3year/12mon/6mon you own your computer before upgrading?

i upgrade every three years(i buy computers more often than this but the upgrades are done to these every three years) lets say you upgrade every year and spend 500.00 a year) then you have spent what i spent for "lilo" in my sig. either way you get your money's worth but i can buy it and forget it.still have a very respectable computer and still get my money's worth out of it.

MOTHERBOARD: Of course you want a motherboard with the features you want from a reputable brand to insure dependability. It's kind of like finding a mate. Find one that feels right and make you the most happy

this like finding a mate is very important.it will be the backbone of your system.skimping here hurts your performance or overclocking capabilities later.it can also lead to stability issues if not researched before hand.how many newer boards wont run 2 sticks of ddr ram
stable?

MONITOR: I whole-heartedly believe your monitor is your most important investment when looking to build a computer. I think it?s very important to put your money into buying a nice monitor. A good 19inch CRT or 17inch LCD if you can afford it. That?s the only part of the computer you will have to live with day-in-day-out. Your eyes will be happier if you put aside more money into this part of your budget.

sure but how many can you find that are acceptable and cheaper to get the same thing accomplished?

mike

 

[Woodie]

Monitor--it will probably outlast the PC. Worth spending extra $$ on it.
Motherboard. I say spend more here, because this item is harder to upgrade than other parts. Adding additional RAM or upgrading the CPU are easy add-ons, non-disruptive to the machine, and unlikely to make it fail to boot.

I stop there, since you can only splurge on a couple things.

 

[murphy55d]

Agree on monitor... I think my current monitor itself cost more than the rest of my original system. (19" Planar LCD, best purchase I ever made, computer related.)

 

[neoro]

Motherboard
RAM
Processor
Graphic Card
Hard Disk
Monitor
Sound Card

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Monitor
Motherboard
Video
RAM
CPU
HDD

 

[Smilin]

My points of disagreement:

IF you game then video is VERY important, even more so than the cpu. As a personal rule (I'm a serious gamer) I treat $1 worth of video upgrade the same as $4 of cpu upgrade. This means if I had a choice between a high end xeon processor and a high end video card I'd take the card in a heartbeat. One of the points you made about fps is pretty much wrong and has been discussed quite a bit on this board: You don't buy a card that will pull 150fps because you NEED 150fps, you buy it because you want the *minimum* never to dip below a certain amount which varies from game to game but for 3d shooters is generally about 60fps.

Hard drives: buy what you need, don't buy for future growth. When you run out of space, prices will have dropped and you can add another drive. (Mind you don't buy a 40 gig hard drive if you're already at 38gigs used..use some sense of course)

Some things I spend more cash on:
Monitor, Case and power supply because it should last you through several computers. You already pointed some of this out. Although you didn't go there, speakers are worth spending the fat cash on as well - a good set won't go obsolete.

For cpus do this: bust out excel and plot a graph of the price and speed of each processor. Take a look at the curves. It will be very obvious what to buy...the price and speed graphs will run almost in parallel in an upward slope until a certain point where the price will go exponential.

 

[chizow]

Wow! All those people that are placing such a low priority on their monitors either:

a) Have never experienced the difference a high-quality monitor makes

b) Have been spoiled with an excellent display from the start and take it for granted,

or

c) Don't mind cheating their senses.

Simply put, your 5 senses will benefit the most from any increases in performance garnered by upgrades in hardware. For computers, the experience is limited to sight, sound, and touch. You'll notice an extra 3'' on your display in 32-bit color @ a higher resolution faster than you'll notice a 200mhz increase in your CPU clock speed. What's the point of running 100+ fps if your monitor is so small with such a poor refresh rate that you wouldn't be able to even see the difference or run any decent resolution?

Chiz

 

[BatmanNate]

Monitor: I agree, this is a very important investment that will likely be with you longer than any other single component in your computer. A great monitor can make a crappy computer seem much nicer than a great computer wtih a crappy monitor. I personally run a 19" flat CRT and two 17" trinitrons. Multiple monitors increases your desktop real estate and proficiency, if you have space on your desk.

Ram: This is definately not 2nd on my priority list, but makes an impact none the less. Speed of ram is not a huge issue to me, and quantity is justified by the speed or your disk subsystem and what OS you typically run. I use 1 GB of PC2100 DDR.

Hard drive(s): This is priority #2 for me, right below monitor. I monopolize a great deal of space, and redundancy is of the greatest important. Also, the HD is generally your system's largest bottleneck, so a quick boot/swap drive makes the computing experience more fluid. I run a single 18 GB 10k RPM SCSI drive as my boot, and have 4 x 120 GB 7200 IDE drives in a RAID-5 for my storage.

Motherboard: This is priority #3 to me, as it impacts greatly your stability, upgradability, and a large part of your system's features. I prefer something stable and solid. I run a Tyan Tiger MP dual AMD motherboard.

CPU(s): Again, I agree here. Priority is relatively low, since the cost difference between the lower and higher end CPU's in a family is never equal to the performance difference. Multiple processors is more important to me for what I do; a great deal of multitasking. I chose 2 AMD Athlon XP 1500+'s.

Video Card: Like the CPU, this component has an irrational (to the buyer) pricing sceme that does not justify buying the top end model. I tend to go for the low end model with good overclocking potential, to get the most for my money. I use a GeForce3 Ti200, overclocked to 250/550.

Optical Drives: For what I do, backup and restoration from optical media is a constant undertaking, so I need reliable and featured drives. I have a Pioneer 16x DVD and a TDK 24x10x40 CDRW that will hopefully be upgraded to a DVD burner of some sort once a single standard is adopted.

Other components: The optical mouse ranks high on my priority list for the same reasons as a monitor, longevity and comfort. Nothing worse that a bad mouse. Keyboards are cheap, and I like one with a sturdy feel, non ergonomic. NIC's certainly differ by brand for performance and support, I steer clear of Realtek and tend to go with Linksys as it's a good blend of value, support, and performance. Soundcard is very important as I love music, I chose mine on the basis of sheer audio quality, not gaming or hifi support. I like clean sound, and use a Phillips Seismic Edge 5.1.

 

[Yomicron]

Definately the monitor comes first. It will last longer than all the other components and a nice monitor makes using computers all the more pleasing. I know from experience, I have a 19" Trinitron infront of me and a generic 19" CRT to my right. Every aspect of the Trinitron is better and definately worth the extra $100 or so.

 

[optimistic]

Great opinions here! I enjoy reading all of them! Make me think twice about my purchases and what I think is important. And it's good to know that some people agree with me and don't think I'm not a crazy person.

 

[Deeko]

I spent more money on my videocard than anything else in my system. Top priority for me. Sure, I don't need 150fps in UT2K3, BUT having a card that fast means that I can play UT2K3 w/ full FSAA and ansio and stay extremely playable, and it means I'll be able to play new stuff like Doom 3 when it comes out. And yes my eye CAN tell the difference between a good card and a bad card. My priority:
Video
CPU
motherboard
RAM
HD
sound

frankly I don't really consider the monitor when I buy a system, I've only had 2 monitors with the 5 systems I've owned. Did I spend money on the most recent? Yea, I got a Sony M51D LCD, but its only 15". I don't have space on my desk for a 17" But even if I didn't have this one, I could live with another, with my previous I had a cheap CTX 17" shadow mask, wasn't even flat screen, sure it wasn't great, but it didn't really bother me. Now, having a slow video card would bother me to no end.

 

[optimistic]

Thanks Wolfsraider for your input!

size of the hdd isn't as important as speed to me

That's something I didn't address. Before, with the big price difference wit 5400rpm and 7200rpm I was having a hard time deciding which one was more important? Size or speed. Seems like I went with speed for me and size for others.

it isn't so much the framerates i am "intrested" in but rather the features. the difference between a 8500 and a 9700 is more than framerates-while speed in games is nice the visual quality is imho much better on a 9700.there is also the fact i can turn on all quality and not affect gameplay.the 8500 while able to enable quality settings takes a tremendous hit in game play.
the monitor is important in bringing the visuals to the table but is only as good as the video card.3d mark is sh#$.
but the quality of my gaming is much more important.

take ut2003 sure it will run on an 8500 with quality set at max but not near as smooth or detailed as on my 9700.

I was about to address the quality issue, but then a I realized it wasn't me. So I said fsck it. I guess this where we are different.

i upgrade every three years(i buy computers more often than this but the upgrades are done to these every three years) lets say you upgrade every year and spend 500.00 a year) then you have spent what i spent for "lilo" in my sig. either way you get your money's worth but i can buy it and forget it.still have a very respectable computer and still get my money's worth out of it.

Are you agreeing with me here?

this like finding a mate is very important.it will be the backbone of your system.skimping here hurts your performance or overclocking capabilities later.it can also lead to stability issues if not researched before hand.how many newer boards wont run 2 sticks of ddr ram
stable?

Heh, you agree with me on the mate thing Imagine if we turned this mate terminology around I bet it would sound something like this.
"Hi, meeting you was very important to me. I think you are the backbone of my life. I promise to never take you for granted (no skimping). I really admire your potential to excel beyond people's recommendations And I asked around, and I heard you're very stable -I like that! Will you be my motherboard? eh, I mean mate?"

sure but how many can you find that are acceptable and cheaper to get the same thing accomplished?

Yes, but don't you agree a fast monitor is just as important as a big video card?

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: Wolfsraider
sorry but i disagree.
i upgrade every three years(i buy computers more often than this but the upgrades are done to these every three years) lets say you upgrade every year and spend 500.00 a year) then you have spent what i spent for "lilo" in my sig. either way you get your money's worth but i can buy it and forget it.still have a very respectable computer and still get my money's worth out of it.

That's great for those that don't want to mess with their computer a lot, but if you don't want to do that then what are you doing here? No offense intended. I love opening up my box and upgrading components. That's part of the fun of it all. Plus, then I can run the latest games with the latest settings. Otherwise, if I wait every three years, I have to slowly run things slower and slower until there's nothing left. Now that I'm out of college (6 months and 5 days now) I can finally afford to buy the nice case I've been wanting (read: Lian-Li or Cooler Master) and not have to spend money on that part for quite some time. I have a great monitor (Dell P990 19" Trinitron) that I have no intention of upgrading. So, I am going to get an nVidia GFFX in about 6 months and a new proc/mobo/RAM about 6 months after that. In another 6 months I can get the newest nVidia (yeah, that's right, I got burned by ATI once and never again) and wait another 6 months and get the newest proc. That way I'm always "with" the technology. That way I can always play my game at as high a quality as I like to without sacrificing performance.

Anyway, I list my products here in order of the time I take picking one. I'll spend what I have to, but I will not waste my money.

Case
Motherboard
Monitor
RAM
Hard Drive
Video Card
Optical Drives
Processor

 

[optimistic]

Originally posted by: Ilmater
Anyway, I list my products here in order of the time I take picking one. I'll spend what I have to, but I will not waste my money.

Case
Motherboard
Monitor
RAM
Hard Drive
Video Card
Optical Drives
Processor

That's cool! I didn't really say if you have to spend XX amount of dollars. I just really wanted to know where your money was going and what you thought was important And did you mean to put proc under optical drives?

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: optimistic
And did you mean to put proc under optical drives?

Absolutely. I keep up on processors pretty well (as do most people) and it doesn't take much to look and see how one is going to perform over another. I always just look for the Athlon that is only $10 or $12 less than the one above it and that's the one I buy. Intel has been too expensive for quite some time.

 

[blackhawk]

Monitor
Motherboard
video
ram
cpu
hard drive
optical


Most important is what you touch, feel, see and hear. Vid is more important than cpu now. A good mb can last a while and everything else is easier to upgrade than the mb.

 

[RanDum72]

I'm pretty big on stability so the motherboard, memory AND power supply should all be quality parts. 512mb is the sweet spot.
I agree on the CPU and video card; I tend to go with middle of the road or the best bang/buck for your needs.
On harddrives, you can decide on size vs. speed in relation to their prices. If I really have to choose, I would choose capacity over speed but thats just me.

The monitor is like an afterthought for me but as long as they are not smaller than 17 inches, holds a fairly high resolution/refresh rate
and has pin-sharp focus, I can live with it. For glare and eye protection , I use 3M glare/UV filters; since I've used them, my butt now hurts more than my eyes or head in extended 'staring' sessions.

 

[Wolfsraider]

Originally posted by: optimistic
Thanks Wolfsraider for your input!

size of the hdd isn't as important as speed to me

That's something I didn't address. Before, with the big price difference wit 5400rpm and 7200rpm I was having a hard time deciding which one was more important? Size or speed. Seems like I went with speed for me and size for others.

it isn't so much the framerates i am "intrested" in but rather the features. the difference between a 8500 and a 9700 is more than framerates-while speed in games is nice the visual quality is imho much better on a 9700.there is also the fact i can turn on all quality and not affect gameplay.the 8500 while able to enable quality settings takes a tremendous hit in game play.
the monitor is important in bringing the visuals to the table but is only as good as the video card.3d mark is sh#$.
but the quality of my gaming is much more important.

take ut2003 sure it will run on an 8500 with quality set at max but not near as smooth or detailed as on my 9700.

I was about to address the quality issue, but then a I realized it wasn't me. So I said fsck it. I guess this where we are different.

i upgrade every three years(i buy computers more often than this but the upgrades are done to these every three years) lets say you upgrade every year and spend 500.00 a year) then you have spent what i spent for "lilo" in my sig. either way you get your money's worth but i can buy it and forget it.still have a very respectable computer and still get my money's worth out of it.

Are you agreeing with me here?

this like finding a mate is very important.it will be the backbone of your system.skimping here hurts your performance or overclocking capabilities later.it can also lead to stability issues if not researched before hand.how many newer boards wont run 2 sticks of ddr ram
stable?

Heh, you agree with me on the mate thing Imagine if we turned this mate terminology around I bet it would sound something like this.
"Hi, meeting you was very important to me. I think you are the backbone of my life. I promise to never take you for granted (no skimping). I really admire your potential to excel beyond people's recommendations And I asked around, and I heard you're very stable -I like that! Will you be my motherboard? eh, I mean mate?"

sure but how many can you find that are acceptable and cheaper to get the same thing accomplished?

Yes, but don't you agree a fast monitor is just as important as a big video card?

well yes and no

yes a fast monitor is important but you can skimp here if you do it right and save money

some monitors are expensive but offer little or no more in performance as their cheaper brethren(its in the numbers and specs and reviews)

so if i needed to save "x" amount i would try to do it here or on the opticals(being as the optical drives are so cheap it would end up here)

lol i like the "mate" theory too

the only 8500(for clarification as i am probably biased here) i have "seen" was the one in my friends p3 1gig so i also concede here you may be right,shoving 3 gigs up an 8500's arse may be the difference i missed

 

[Wolfsraider]

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: Wolfsraider
sorry but i disagree.
i upgrade every three years(i buy computers more often than this but the upgrades are done to these every three years) lets say you upgrade every year and spend 500.00 a year) then you have spent what i spent for "lilo" in my sig. either way you get your money's worth but i can buy it and forget it.still have a very respectable computer and still get my money's worth out of it.

That's great for those that don't want to mess with their computer a lot, but if you don't want to do that then what are you doing here? No offense intended. I love opening up my box and upgrading components. That's part of the fun of it all. Plus, then I can run the latest games with the latest settings. Otherwise, if I wait every three years, I have to slowly run things slower and slower until there's nothing left. Now that I'm out of college (6 months and 5 days now) I can finally afford to buy the nice case I've been wanting (read: Lian-Li or Cooler Master) and not have to spend money on that part for quite some time. I have a great monitor (Dell P990 19" Trinitron) that I have no intention of upgrading. So, I am going to get an nVidia GFFX in about 6 months and a new proc/mobo/RAM about 6 months after that. In another 6 months I can get the newest nVidia (yeah, that's right, I got burned by ATI once and never again) and wait another 6 months and get the newest proc. That way I'm always "with" the technology. That way I can always play my game at as high a quality as I like to without sacrificing performance.

Anyway, I list my products here in order of the time I take picking one. I'll spend what I have to, but I will not waste my money.

Case
Motherboard
Monitor
RAM
Hard Drive
Video Card
Optical Drives
Processor

hee hee no man i guess i should have been more clear i build a new computer about every 6 to 8 months until we have 4 here by that time the older ones can be upgraded and given as gifts or sold to family members lol

<---my relatives love me woot and i love my stability but that doesn't mean i don't tinker lol

don't get me wrong guys how you spend your money concerns me not,i upgrade but mostly i get the best i can afford and move a computer down the list.ie i get the latest and greatest wife and two daughters get the move downs and in a few more years my son will be included in the cycle if computers are still holding my facination lol

mike