Organic food is no healthier, study finds

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: lxskllr

Originally posted by: DrPizza


More bullshit. There is no incentive for corporate farms to abuse their animals. In fact, abusing animals hurts their bottom line. The happier and more comfortable the animals are, the better they put on weight. That equals greater profits. Furthermore, there are idiots proposing laws that are actually detrimental to animal health, simply because these idiots "think" that what they are proposing is correct. Unfortunately, their proposals are often not based on fact, just based on incorrect gut instinct. Likewise, a lot of people trust their gut instincts in deciding what constitutes abuse and what doesn't.

Bullshit. You tell me these animals are happy...

http://images.google.com/image...&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g3

OMFG! The HORROR! OMG LOOK AT ALL THE CHICKENS ON THE FACTORY FARM!
here
They must really be unhappy! Ohhhhh, the humanity! How can anyone with any common sense think that the chickens could possibly be comfortable clustered together like that!

Oh wait a second:
You don't know Jack shit

I'll just use the factory farmed chickens as the example I refute, as it's one that's oftentimes referred to. However, I'll reiterate: fvcktards with zero experience in caring for domesticated animals think they know everything and don't believe that a lot of money and research goes into determining the best practices.

Oh, and if there are any other dimwits out there, cattle are herd animals. herd
Herd animals are comfortable in close proximity to each other. Just this afternoon, one of my goats (a herd animal) managed to get over the fence & was separated from the rest of the goats who decided to go inside - 30 goats in a 14' by 20' are - they prefer it that way. That poor goat completely freaked out. You could here her bleating a mile away. When I put her in the barn, she had 100 bales of hay to herself, and access to plenty of water. You think she wanted all that hay and space? Hell no. She wanted to get back into the large stall with everyone else. If I leave their stall door open, it doubles their available space. You think they spread out? No way. (Of course, they do come out into the aisle and make a freaking mess out of all the bales of hay.) But, once they've had their fill of hay, they still congregate in the same area as each other.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: lxskllr

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Crusty
So they compared it only on nutritional value? What about taste or other chemicals found?

I guess you like the taste of bugs?

I don't have a problem with bugs. They're mostly flavorless, and if I eat a few, it's just bonus protein ;^)

See my sig.

 

[lxskllr]

Dude. I've been on farms plenty. My uncle raised animals since the 40s, and I've surveyed around plenty of farms in MD. Those conditions are too fuckin' cramped. The "research" that goes into raising mass quantities of animals is in how to maximize profits, not in caring for the animals in the best way possible.

 

[Ruptga]

So what if we don't care for the livestock in the "best" way possible? Good enough is good enough, and the law of diminishing returns still applies.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
OMFG! The HORROR! OMG LOOK AT ALL THE CHICKENS ON THE FACTORY FARM!
here
They must really be unhappy! Ohhhhh, the humanity! How can anyone with any common sense think that the chickens could possibly be comfortable clustered together like that!

Oh wait a second:
You don't know Jack shit

:disgust: I'm sure the animals in your second set of pics have to live in those conditions 24/7, they can't walk away or fly away after mating.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Crono
Part 1: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa129d_organbu1
Part 2: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa12dk_organbu2

EDIT: NSFW (language) and part 2 is really NSFW (partial nudity)

Thanks much!

 

[RadioHead84]

Ddin't read the whole thread but obviously its about the chemicals that are not in organic food.

Organic Milk, Meat, and Vegies taste 1000x better than the alternative.

Seriously..I always hated milk..had some organic milk and it tasted like candy.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: RadioHead84
Ddin't read the whole thread but obviously its about the chemicals that are not in organic food.

Organic Milk, Meat, and Vegies taste 1000x better than the alternative.

Seriously..I always hated milk..had some organic milk and it tasted like candy.

Maybe you should have read the thread.

Boutique foods, organic or not, will usually be of higher quality because of a closer attention to detail. Locally grown produce, organic or not, will taste better because it's fresher and/or vine ripened.

As for the chemicals. Really, read the thread.

 

[Chiropteran]

Organic foods, such a scam.

First of all, the name is ridiculously bad. All foods are organic in a literal sense. It's like if Toyota designed a new car and decided to call it a mechanical car, and then advertised that it was the only company to sell 100% mechanical cars. If it's free of chemicals, call it chemical free. The apple I bought with pesticides used in farming it was grown organically despite the fact it doesn't have an organic sticker and a tripled price tag.

Other than that, I think the whole "organic food taste better" thing is a scam. As Amused noted the more expensive foods taste better for a variety of reasons, not the lack of chemicals. I'd love to see a blind taste test where people try 2 different apples and identify which one tastes more "organic", I bet most people would get it wrong. It's just a placebo effect- by paying more you expect the food to taste better.

 

[ConwayJim]

I think the big argument for people buying organic is because it's much better on the environment. A friend of mine lived in a village that got sick because the run off water from the fields contaminated the water supply.

now that's food for thought...

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Amused
Funny how you see my opinion as oppression. Shows just how much people in comfortable first world countries have no idea what real oppression is like.

and you know what real oppression is like?

I know enough to know REAL oppression is NOT people telling me I'm an idiot for irrational fears and buying into fearmongering.

who in this thread tried to bully you into buying organic food? if you dont like it, dont buy it. i happen to think organic tastes better, but I dont buy it because I dont want to pay for it. I have many friends who buy organic only but none of them have tried to convert me with your so called fear mongering.

Also I didnt say your opinion is oppression. I just found it funny that for someone who supports individuals' right to choose would be so up in arms about what other people decide to buy with their own money.

I disputed claims people made with the fact that their claims were based entirerly on faith.

You found me having an opinion funny because I'm a libertarian? How strange.

The whole movement behind "Organic" IS fear mongering. It's based on the totally unproven idea that the foods are healthier/safer. If taste was the issue, then the issue would be boutique foods and locally grown produce, organic or not. But that's not the issue now, is it?

I have no fight in the organic debate (i only drink organic milk and that's it), but i find it kind of funny that you talk about others fear mongering when your side does fear mongering about socialized healthcare all the time (OMG BIG SCARY GUBMINT GONNA COME BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR DOCTOR!). You go so far as to even use your own anecdotal evidence to try to 'prove' that studies from several reputable sources (new england journal of medicine, annals of internal medicine, rand corporation) showing socialized healthcare as efficacious is wrong and then run away from the debate because you're too flustered to counter with anything that remotely even resembles science.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...key=y&keyword1=veteran

Sorry for the derail, but i don't know how you can type all that out without a huge sense of irony

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Amused
Funny how you see my opinion as oppression. Shows just how much people in comfortable first world countries have no idea what real oppression is like.

and you know what real oppression is like?

I know enough to know REAL oppression is NOT people telling me I'm an idiot for irrational fears and buying into fearmongering.

who in this thread tried to bully you into buying organic food? if you dont like it, dont buy it. i happen to think organic tastes better, but I dont buy it because I dont want to pay for it. I have many friends who buy organic only but none of them have tried to convert me with your so called fear mongering.

Also I didnt say your opinion is oppression. I just found it funny that for someone who supports individuals' right to choose would be so up in arms about what other people decide to buy with their own money.

I disputed claims people made with the fact that their claims were based entirerly on faith.

You found me having an opinion funny because I'm a libertarian? How strange.

The whole movement behind "Organic" IS fear mongering. It's based on the totally unproven idea that the foods are healthier/safer. If taste was the issue, then the issue would be boutique foods and locally grown produce, organic or not. But that's not the issue now, is it?

I have no fight in the organic debate (i only drink organic milk and that's it), but i find it kind of funny that you talk about others fear mongering when your side does fear mongering about socialized healthcare all the time (OMG BIG SCARY GUBMINT GONNA COME BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR DOCTOR!). You go so far as to even use your own anecdotal evidence to try to 'prove' that studies from several reputable sources (new england journal of medicine, annals of internal medicine, rand corporation) showing socialized healthcare as efficacious is wrong and then run away from the debate because you're too flustered to counter with anything that remotely even resembles science.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...key=y&keyword1=veteran

Sorry for the derail, but i don't know how you can type all that out without a huge sense of irony

You're a complete joke.

I'm a vet. I've experienced the VA health system... you have not. You come to me with a biased article and claim I don't know what I'm talking about??? You've never even set foot in a VA hospital, Phokus.

Come on, Phokus. You're the joke of the board. Just 4 years ago you were claiming to be a "libertarian" for John Kerry. Seriously? Who believes your bullshit anymore?

I posted my opinion, asnwered why the satisfaction surveys were biased (which you could never understand because you're not a vet) and left because there is no point in arguing with a fool like you. You're a troll.

As for coming back with something besides my own experience? Any fucking fool can google "VA hospital conditions" and get 2.5 MILLION results making a complete fucking fool of you. It was just too easy. But there it is. Try it, dipshit. Then tell me how gloriously grand the VA healthcare system is.

As for the topic of socialized medicine itself:

I AM a libertarian, unlike your past bullshit persona. Socialized ANYTHING is contrary to my ideology because it's anathema to freedom. No fearmongering needed. ALL the recent freedoms lost have been to the battle cry of "Cost to society." How many more freedoms does one need to lose before they realize that having the government and US taxpayers as parents is a REALLY bad idea? It is also contrary to my ideology because it makes the work product of one man the right of another. If we are to be free, NO man can have a "right" to the work product of another man.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Amused


I disputed claims people made with the fact that their claims were based entirerly on faith.

You found me having an opinion funny because I'm a libertarian? How strange.

The whole movement behind "Organic" IS fear mongering. It's based on the totally unproven idea that the foods are healthier/safer. If taste was the issue, then the issue would be boutique foods and locally grown produce, organic or not. But that's not the issue now, is it?

I have no fight in the organic debate (i only drink organic milk and that's it), but i find it kind of funny that you talk about others fear mongering when your side does fear mongering about socialized healthcare all the time (OMG BIG SCARY GUBMINT GONNA COME BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR DOCTOR!). You go so far as to even use your own anecdotal evidence to try to 'prove' that studies from several reputable sources (new england journal of medicine, annals of internal medicine, rand corporation) showing socialized healthcare as efficacious is wrong and then run away from the debate because you're too flustered to counter with anything that remotely even resembles science.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...key=y&keyword1=veteran

Sorry for the derail, but i don't know how you can type all that out without a huge sense of irony

You're a complete joke.

I'm a vet. I've experienced the VA health system... you have not. You come to me with a biased article and claim I don't know what I'm talking about??? You've never even set foot in a VA hospital, Phokus.

Come on, Phokus. You're the joke of the board. Just 4 years ago you were claiming to be a "libertarian" for John Kerry. Seriously? Who believes your bullshit anymore?

I posted my opinion and left because there is no point in arguing with a fool like you. You're a troll.

As for the topic of socialized medicine itself:

I AM a libertarian, unlike your past bullshit persona. Socialized ANYTHING is contrary to my ideology because it's anathema to freedom. No fearmongering needed. ALL the recent freedoms lost have been to the battle cry of "Cost to society." How many more freedoms does one need to lose before they realize that having the government and US taxpayers as parents is a REALLY bad idea? It is also contrary to my ideology because it makes the work product of one man the right of another. If we are to be free, NO man can have a "right" to the work product of another man.

:laugh: 1) 'biased' article or not, i later posted the links to the ACTUAL STUDIES it was referencing. Unless you want to claim the new england journal of medicine, annals of internal medicine, and rand corporation are really leftwing organizations... 2) when you told me to 'talk to a vet' about 'how bad the VA was', a couple people posted positive stories about their experiences with the VA and when i PM'd you about it, you said i 'found a couple of lackeys' :laugh: :laugh: 3) The reason why i changed from being a libertarian was because it was an extremist ideology that's easy to poke holes in and i realized that you can actually be pro-market while not being an extremist like a libertarian.

The real irony is, you argue with emotion/faith rather than facts and science and you berate others who do the same.

Even one of my detractors had this to say about the argument:

Originally posted by: eskimospy

What is really happening here is I'm watching a bunch of people ideologically opposed to government health care ignore studies and attempt to place anecdotal evidence on the same footing as actual studies on the matter because they don't want to deal with information that conflicts with their already established opinions. Sorry guys, I know that Phokus trolls a lot... but in this thread he's got you guys cold.

Sorry, you lost the argument badly.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Amused


I disputed claims people made with the fact that their claims were based entirerly on faith.

You found me having an opinion funny because I'm a libertarian? How strange.

The whole movement behind "Organic" IS fear mongering. It's based on the totally unproven idea that the foods are healthier/safer. If taste was the issue, then the issue would be boutique foods and locally grown produce, organic or not. But that's not the issue now, is it?

I have no fight in the organic debate (i only drink organic milk and that's it), but i find it kind of funny that you talk about others fear mongering when your side does fear mongering about socialized healthcare all the time (OMG BIG SCARY GUBMINT GONNA COME BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR DOCTOR!). You go so far as to even use your own anecdotal evidence to try to 'prove' that studies from several reputable sources (new england journal of medicine, annals of internal medicine, rand corporation) showing socialized healthcare as efficacious is wrong and then run away from the debate because you're too flustered to counter with anything that remotely even resembles science.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...key=y&keyword1=veteran

Sorry for the derail, but i don't know how you can type all that out without a huge sense of irony

You're a complete joke.

I'm a vet. I've experienced the VA health system... you have not. You come to me with a biased article and claim I don't know what I'm talking about??? You've never even set foot in a VA hospital, Phokus.

Come on, Phokus. You're the joke of the board. Just 4 years ago you were claiming to be a "libertarian" for John Kerry. Seriously? Who believes your bullshit anymore?

I posted my opinion and left because there is no point in arguing with a fool like you. You're a troll.

As for the topic of socialized medicine itself:

I AM a libertarian, unlike your past bullshit persona. Socialized ANYTHING is contrary to my ideology because it's anathema to freedom. No fearmongering needed. ALL the recent freedoms lost have been to the battle cry of "Cost to society." How many more freedoms does one need to lose before they realize that having the government and US taxpayers as parents is a REALLY bad idea? It is also contrary to my ideology because it makes the work product of one man the right of another. If we are to be free, NO man can have a "right" to the work product of another man.

:laugh: 1) 'biased' article or not, i later posted the links to the ACTUAL STUDIES it was referencing. Unless you want to claim the new england journal of medicine, annals of internal medicine, and rand corporation are really leftwing organizations... 2) when you told me to 'talk to a vet' about 'how bad the VA was', a couple people posted positive stories about their experiences with the VA and when i PM'd you about it, you said i 'found a couple of lackeys' :laugh: :laugh: 3) The reason why i changed from being a libertarian was because it was an extremist ideology that's easy to poke holes in and i realized that you can actually be pro-market while not being an extremist like a libertarian.

The real irony is, you argue with emotion/faith rather than facts and science and you berate others who do the same.

Even one of my detractors had this to say about the argument:

Originally posted by: eskimospy

What is really happening here is I'm watching a bunch of people ideologically opposed to government health care ignore studies and attempt to place anecdotal evidence on the same footing as actual studies on the matter because they don't want to deal with information that conflicts with their already established opinions. Sorry guys, I know that Phokus trolls a lot... but in this thread he's got you guys cold.

Sorry, you lost the argument badly.

You're a joke Phokus, and you posting this in this thread only proves that you're a troll.

So you have another socialist declare you the winner? Yeah, that's about as unbiased as that article you posted.

2.5 MILLION hits, phokus. Google it. I KNOW first hand just how bad the VA is. You have no idea just how big of a fucking fool you look like to anyone with any real VA experience.

Here's a few highlights:

http://cbs11tv.com/seenon/VA.V....Affairs.2.500700.html

http://www.dallasnews.com/shar...08dnmetva.3cf3820.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...4/AR2007030401394.html

http://www.redorbit.com/news/h..._criticized/index.html

http://www.everydayhealth.com/.../va-hospital-problems/

And I could go on and on and on. Those are just the first few hits. 2.5 MILLION FUCKING HIT PHUKUS. I think that about trumps your biased little article based on biased studies done on isolated vets with disabilities.

You're a fucking joke. I lost nothing.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Amused


I disputed claims people made with the fact that their claims were based entirerly on faith.

You found me having an opinion funny because I'm a libertarian? How strange.

The whole movement behind "Organic" IS fear mongering. It's based on the totally unproven idea that the foods are healthier/safer. If taste was the issue, then the issue would be boutique foods and locally grown produce, organic or not. But that's not the issue now, is it?

I have no fight in the organic debate (i only drink organic milk and that's it), but i find it kind of funny that you talk about others fear mongering when your side does fear mongering about socialized healthcare all the time (OMG BIG SCARY GUBMINT GONNA COME BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR DOCTOR!). You go so far as to even use your own anecdotal evidence to try to 'prove' that studies from several reputable sources (new england journal of medicine, annals of internal medicine, rand corporation) showing socialized healthcare as efficacious is wrong and then run away from the debate because you're too flustered to counter with anything that remotely even resembles science.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...key=y&keyword1=veteran

Sorry for the derail, but i don't know how you can type all that out without a huge sense of irony

You're a complete joke.

I'm a vet. I've experienced the VA health system... you have not. You come to me with a biased article and claim I don't know what I'm talking about??? You've never even set foot in a VA hospital, Phokus.

Come on, Phokus. You're the joke of the board. Just 4 years ago you were claiming to be a "libertarian" for John Kerry. Seriously? Who believes your bullshit anymore?

I posted my opinion and left because there is no point in arguing with a fool like you. You're a troll.

As for the topic of socialized medicine itself:

I AM a libertarian, unlike your past bullshit persona. Socialized ANYTHING is contrary to my ideology because it's anathema to freedom. No fearmongering needed. ALL the recent freedoms lost have been to the battle cry of "Cost to society." How many more freedoms does one need to lose before they realize that having the government and US taxpayers as parents is a REALLY bad idea? It is also contrary to my ideology because it makes the work product of one man the right of another. If we are to be free, NO man can have a "right" to the work product of another man.

:laugh: 1) 'biased' article or not, i later posted the links to the ACTUAL STUDIES it was referencing. Unless you want to claim the new england journal of medicine, annals of internal medicine, and rand corporation are really leftwing organizations... 2) when you told me to 'talk to a vet' about 'how bad the VA was', a couple people posted positive stories about their experiences with the VA and when i PM'd you about it, you said i 'found a couple of lackeys' :laugh: :laugh: 3) The reason why i changed from being a libertarian was because it was an extremist ideology that's easy to poke holes in and i realized that you can actually be pro-market while not being an extremist like a libertarian.

The real irony is, you argue with emotion/faith rather than facts and science and you berate others who do the same.

Even one of my detractors had this to say about the argument:

Originally posted by: eskimospy

What is really happening here is I'm watching a bunch of people ideologically opposed to government health care ignore studies and attempt to place anecdotal evidence on the same footing as actual studies on the matter because they don't want to deal with information that conflicts with their already established opinions. Sorry guys, I know that Phokus trolls a lot... but in this thread he's got you guys cold.

Sorry, you lost the argument badly.

You're a joke Phokus, and you posting this in this thread only proves that you're a troll.

So you have another socialist declare you the winner? Yeah, that's about as unbiased as that article you posted.

2.5 MILLION hits, phokus. Google it. I KNOW first hand just how bad the VA is. You have no idea just how big of a fucking fool you look like to anyone with any real VA experience.

Here's a few highlights:

http://cbs11tv.com/seenon/VA.V....Affairs.2.500700.html

http://www.dallasnews.com/shar...08dnmetva.3cf3820.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...4/AR2007030401394.html

http://www.redorbit.com/news/h..._criticized/index.html

http://www.everydayhealth.com/.../va-hospital-problems/

And I could go on and on and on. Those are just the first few hits. 2.5 MILLION FUCKING HIT PHUKUS. I think that about trumps your biased little article based on biased studies done on isolated vets with disabilities.

You're a fucking joke. I lost nothing.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: look at how mad you get

you still don't get it, do you? you're posting anecdotes. Funny how you were responded to with POSITIVE anecdotes about the VA system and you didn't even respond back because you're a huge pussy Tell me why YOUR anecdotes are relevant and why THEIR anecdotes aren't.

This is why you're an idiot, anecdotes (whether they support me or support you) are meaningless.

Originally posted by: SP33Demon


Yep, it's a highly efficient system. BTW, wife's dad said his long term maintenance meds are mailed out to him so he doesn't even have to pick them up. How's that for efficient...

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Amused
Phokus, have you ever been to a VA? Been under the treatment of the VA? Been a patient in a VA hospital?

I have, and I can tell you that my experience, and the experience of EVERY SINGLE VET I know is 100% contrary to the article you've posted.

Now, want me to believe you? Find a majority of Vets who agree with that article.

How's this for anecdotal evidence: My wife's dad is a Vietnam vet who just had his leg amputated last year... he has had zero complications and nothing but good things to say about the VA. He's also on freaking 14 medications. Maybe your VA just sucks ass, the ones in Virginia/DC Metro area are stellar.

LOL at all the righties who can't accept evidence when it's staring them in the face. Take your blinders off, I realize not every VA is going to be great (TN and GA ones who were using infected syringes wtf) but on the whole it's passable.

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
you know why? because its FREE that is why, no one bitches, its free, who cares how good, its free!

Sure they don't. Have you ever set foot in a VA hospital? I have. In fact I wouldn't be here today if it weren't for the VA health care system. I've been to both private and VA hospitals and the quality of care there is every bit as good if not better. Try again.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Amused


I disputed claims people made with the fact that their claims were based entirerly on faith.

You found me having an opinion funny because I'm a libertarian? How strange.

The whole movement behind "Organic" IS fear mongering. It's based on the totally unproven idea that the foods are healthier/safer. If taste was the issue, then the issue would be boutique foods and locally grown produce, organic or not. But that's not the issue now, is it?

I have no fight in the organic debate (i only drink organic milk and that's it), but i find it kind of funny that you talk about others fear mongering when your side does fear mongering about socialized healthcare all the time (OMG BIG SCARY GUBMINT GONNA COME BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR DOCTOR!). You go so far as to even use your own anecdotal evidence to try to 'prove' that studies from several reputable sources (new england journal of medicine, annals of internal medicine, rand corporation) showing socialized healthcare as efficacious is wrong and then run away from the debate because you're too flustered to counter with anything that remotely even resembles science.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...key=y&keyword1=veteran

Sorry for the derail, but i don't know how you can type all that out without a huge sense of irony

You're a complete joke.

I'm a vet. I've experienced the VA health system... you have not. You come to me with a biased article and claim I don't know what I'm talking about??? You've never even set foot in a VA hospital, Phokus.

Come on, Phokus. You're the joke of the board. Just 4 years ago you were claiming to be a "libertarian" for John Kerry. Seriously? Who believes your bullshit anymore?

I posted my opinion and left because there is no point in arguing with a fool like you. You're a troll.

As for the topic of socialized medicine itself:

I AM a libertarian, unlike your past bullshit persona. Socialized ANYTHING is contrary to my ideology because it's anathema to freedom. No fearmongering needed. ALL the recent freedoms lost have been to the battle cry of "Cost to society." How many more freedoms does one need to lose before they realize that having the government and US taxpayers as parents is a REALLY bad idea? It is also contrary to my ideology because it makes the work product of one man the right of another. If we are to be free, NO man can have a "right" to the work product of another man.

:laugh: 1) 'biased' article or not, i later posted the links to the ACTUAL STUDIES it was referencing. Unless you want to claim the new england journal of medicine, annals of internal medicine, and rand corporation are really leftwing organizations... 2) when you told me to 'talk to a vet' about 'how bad the VA was', a couple people posted positive stories about their experiences with the VA and when i PM'd you about it, you said i 'found a couple of lackeys' :laugh: :laugh: 3) The reason why i changed from being a libertarian was because it was an extremist ideology that's easy to poke holes in and i realized that you can actually be pro-market while not being an extremist like a libertarian.

The real irony is, you argue with emotion/faith rather than facts and science and you berate others who do the same.

Even one of my detractors had this to say about the argument:

Originally posted by: eskimospy

What is really happening here is I'm watching a bunch of people ideologically opposed to government health care ignore studies and attempt to place anecdotal evidence on the same footing as actual studies on the matter because they don't want to deal with information that conflicts with their already established opinions. Sorry guys, I know that Phokus trolls a lot... but in this thread he's got you guys cold.

Sorry, you lost the argument badly.

You're a joke Phokus, and you posting this in this thread only proves that you're a troll.

So you have another socialist declare you the winner? Yeah, that's about as unbiased as that article you posted.

2.5 MILLION hits, phokus. Google it. I KNOW first hand just how bad the VA is. You have no idea just how big of a fucking fool you look like to anyone with any real VA experience.

Here's a few highlights:

http://cbs11tv.com/seenon/VA.V....Affairs.2.500700.html

http://www.dallasnews.com/shar...08dnmetva.3cf3820.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...4/AR2007030401394.html

http://www.redorbit.com/news/h..._criticized/index.html

http://www.everydayhealth.com/.../va-hospital-problems/

And I could go on and on and on. Those are just the first few hits. 2.5 MILLION FUCKING HIT PHUKUS. I think that about trumps your biased little article based on biased studies done on isolated vets with disabilities.

You're a fucking joke. I lost nothing.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: look at how mad you get

you still don't get it, do you? you're posting anecdotes. Funny how you were responded to with POSITIVE anecdotes about the VA system and you didn't even respond back because you're a huge pussy Tell me why YOUR anecdotes are relevant and why THEIR anecdotes aren't.

This is why you're an idiot, anecdotes (whether they support me or support you) are meaningless.

Originally posted by: SP33Demon


Yep, it's a highly efficient system. BTW, wife's dad said his long term maintenance meds are mailed out to him so he doesn't even have to pick them up. How's that for efficient...

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Amused
Phokus, have you ever been to a VA? Been under the treatment of the VA? Been a patient in a VA hospital?

I have, and I can tell you that my experience, and the experience of EVERY SINGLE VET I know is 100% contrary to the article you've posted.

Now, want me to believe you? Find a majority of Vets who agree with that article.

How's this for anecdotal evidence: My wife's dad is a Vietnam vet who just had his leg amputated last year... he has had zero complications and nothing but good things to say about the VA. He's also on freaking 14 medications. Maybe your VA just sucks ass, the ones in Virginia/DC Metro area are stellar.

LOL at all the righties who can't accept evidence when it's staring them in the face. Take your blinders off, I realize not every VA is going to be great (TN and GA ones who were using infected syringes wtf) but on the whole it's passable.

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
you know why? because its FREE that is why, no one bitches, its free, who cares how good, its free!

Sure they don't. Have you ever set foot in a VA hospital? I have. In fact I wouldn't be here today if it weren't for the VA health care system. I've been to both private and VA hospitals and the quality of care there is every bit as good if not better. Try again.

http://www.recordonline.com/ap...70116015/-1/NEWS271997

You're a troll phokus. It's why you're here in this thread. And it means that I MUST mean something to you for you to follow me into other threads. I guess that makes you a stalker troll, huh?

I'm done feeding you.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Amused

http://www.recordonline.com/ap...70116015/-1/NEWS271997

You're a troll phokus. It's why you're here in this thread. And it means that I MUST mean something to you for you to follow me into other threads. I guess that makes you a stalker troll, huh?

I'm done feeding you.

Amused: Still can't respond to science, still can't answer why HIS anecdotes are relevant and other's aren't, STILL links to anecdotes as 'proof', and still flustered and mad

This is exactly why i am not a libertarian anymore.

Thank god for pragmatism and logic.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Amused

http://www.recordonline.com/ap...70116015/-1/NEWS271997

You're a troll phokus. It's why you're here in this thread. And it means that I MUST mean something to you for you to follow me into other threads. I guess that makes you a stalker troll, huh?

I'm done feeding you.

Amused: Still can't respond to science, still can't answer why HIS anecdotes are relevant and other's aren't, STILL links to anecdotes as 'proof', and still flustered and mad

This is exactly why i am not a libertarian anymore.

Thank god for pragmatism and logic.

Stalking and trolling show neither pragmatism nor logic, phokus. And you never were a libertarian. You were and always have been a troll.

I'm not flustered or mad. More amused than anything. Mostly at the fact that you think you've trumped me somehow and feel the need to chase me from thread to thread in a vain attempt validate yourself. I must be a pretty big deal if you think I'm this important.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Amused

http://www.recordonline.com/ap...70116015/-1/NEWS271997

You're a troll phokus. It's why you're here in this thread. And it means that I MUST mean something to you for you to follow me into other threads. I guess that makes you a stalker troll, huh?

I'm done feeding you.

Amused: Still can't respond to science, still can't answer why HIS anecdotes are relevant and other's aren't, STILL links to anecdotes as 'proof', and still flustered and mad

This is exactly why i am not a libertarian anymore.

Thank god for pragmatism and logic.

Stalking and trolling show neither pragmatism nor logic, phokus. And you never were a libertarian. You were and always have been a troll.

I'm not flustered or mad. More amused than anything. Mostly at the fact that you think you've trumped me somehow and feel the need to chase me from thread to thread in a vain attempt validate yourself. I must be a pretty big deal if you think I'm this important.

I didn't 'follow' you, i came into this thread interested in the organic debate and saw that you made a hugely hypocritical post and just like the VA debate, you got extremely emotional (whether you want to admit it or not). Anyway, i'm done extracting my pound of flesh from you.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Amused

http://www.recordonline.com/ap...70116015/-1/NEWS271997

You're a troll phokus. It's why you're here in this thread. And it means that I MUST mean something to you for you to follow me into other threads. I guess that makes you a stalker troll, huh?

I'm done feeding you.

Amused: Still can't respond to science, still can't answer why HIS anecdotes are relevant and other's aren't, STILL links to anecdotes as 'proof', and still flustered and mad

This is exactly why i am not a libertarian anymore.

Thank god for pragmatism and logic.

Stalking and trolling show neither pragmatism nor logic, phokus. And you never were a libertarian. You were and always have been a troll.

I'm not flustered or mad. More amused than anything. Mostly at the fact that you think you've trumped me somehow and feel the need to chase me from thread to thread in a vain attempt validate yourself. I must be a pretty big deal if you think I'm this important.

I didn't 'follow' you, i came into this thread interested in the organic debate and saw that you made a hugely hypocritical post and just like the VA debate, you got extremely emotional (whether you want to admit it or not). Anyway, i'm done extracting my pound of flesh from you.

:laugh:

You calling me a hypocrite? Yeah, that's funny.

 

[brandonb]

I've only had this organic stuff:

Root Beer
Pop Tarts
Cereal

Root Beer was wonderful, but for $6.99 a 4 pack of 12 oz bottles, no thanks.

Pop Tarts were 10x better tasting than normal pop tarts, but for $3.99 for 6, I will buy them from time to time. Compared with Kellogs with like $2.99 for 12, it's hard to justify the organic (but I do occassionally)

Cereal was hard as a rock because of the lack of chemicals, would never buy it again.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: Alone
Those who eat Organic produce are the same people who smear hand sanitizer all over everything.

Idiots. :roll:

I eat a lot of organic produce and some other items, but would not touch that sanitizer crap with a ten foot pole, nor would I use "anti-bacterial" soap.

Keep generalizing, it makes you look very intelligent. :thumbsup:

KT

i used hand sanitizer today on my hands... not because i was afraid of catching anything, but because i didn't want to get any of my patients, boss, or co-worker's sick from my cold. even though i always cough/sneeze into my arm/shoulder, i sometimes mess with my mouth or rub my nose or something. so, i do it out of courtesy of others.

Soap and water FTW.

KT

 

[zerocool84]

Too many people here think Organic has no pesticides and taste better. We know those not to be true.

 

[BudAshes]

lol dr pizza is on his high horse anti organic campaign again.

The point of organic is that it is grown in a way that is renewable and pesticide free. Why the fuck would it be more nutritious?

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: BudAshes
lol dr pizza is on his high horse anti organic campaign again.

The point of organic is that it is grown in a way that is renewable and pesticide free. Why the fuck would it be more nutritious?

It is not pesticide free. They just use organic pesicides and organic growing needs more land for the same amount grown non-organic.