Organized Labor is good for everyone

[Zebo]

They are good for businesses too. Who would you rather sell houses/cars/wedding rings etc to a 100K a year union firefighter or a $8 an hour construction worker? Only ppl that dont like em are jealous or corp bootlickers.

 

[rchiu]

That's like wondering why shouldn't passengers in an aircraft try and become pilots.

So in other word, not everyone can be a pilots/ceo/shareholders but everyone expects to be paid like one?

 

[Pneumothorax]

If you're a middle class wage earner, then the unions have actually BEEN picketing for you and they've also been striking on your behalf.

Union negotiated wages have been the benchmark wage that the private sector uses to pay their own non-union workers of like occupations. Think of it this way: If union wages are far better than a private sector wage of the same occupation, wouldn't all the best workers seek these union jobs and have the non-union shops wanting for talent? These non-union shops would then have to pay a wage equal to or better than the union shop to either keep the skilled workers they have or attract the good ones working at union shops. Union wages is like the incoming tide such that it lifts all boats. Likewise, getting rid of the unions will be like the outgoing tide such that it lowers all boats.

You may not realize it, but unions did in fact create the middle class, especially so after World War II.

Haven't you noticed that there is a direct correlation between how the unions have been shrinking and how the middle class is also shrinking a like amount?

Let's look at the auto industry. They're doing just fine with the majority of line jobs filled by UAW employees. The non-union auto manufacturing shops have had to pay wage/benefits packages similar to the amounts the unions negotiated for (adjusted for cost of living).

That the US auto manufacturers are doing great at the present thoroughly debunks the fairy tale about the unions destroying the auto industry when management held/holds all the decision making power as to how they make their products desireable to the driving public.

In hard times, most unions have made concessions commensurate with the times they were negotiated in as saving their jobs became their highest priority. Conflicts arose for the most part when opportunistic management teams attempted to bust unions wholesale in those difficult economic times instead of trying to save as many jobs as possible.

True, there are as many bad union bosses as there are bad management types. However, just as the auto industry here in the US have worked well with the unions, so too have numerous other US manufacturers or service providers worked well with unions whose workers they represent.

Maybe the wages are somewhat influenced by unions,but the benefits are most certainly not. To get the sweet pensions that public sector unions get would require Mr. private sector joe's 401k to be putting out 15% returns or he has been putting away something crazy like 30% of his income. What irritates me the most is the public sector union's pension funds that estimate an impossible 8% on their investment returns and when it comes up 50% short, expect the taxpayer to eat the difference. I sure would love someone guaranteeing my 401k's rate of return!

 

[Juror No. 8]

It is a disingenuous question. Negotiating for pay is not the same as colluding against the public in a monopoly-like fashion.

False. People who unionize essentially collude to fix the price of their own labor as high as possible. If they don't get what they want they usually strike and then will attempt to prevent the hiring and employment of replacement workers.

This collusion among individuals and the price fixing of their labor, which is anti-competitive behavior, is often applauded by the Left. But when a bunch of rich corporate fat cats get together and attempt to collude and/or fix the price of their goods and services, the Left screams bloody murder.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, no?

 

[momeNt]

They are good for businesses too. Who would you rather sell houses/cars/wedding rings etc to a 100K a year union firefighter or a $8 an hour construction worker? Only ppl that dont like em are jealous or corp bootlickers.

What about a 100k a year union construction worker? Union operators, ironworkers, piledrivers, concrete finishers, carpenters, etc. all can make that much in the right market.

You think maybe construction would go a lot faster if there wasn't collusion to raise wages and artificially restricting labor supply by fixing wages. A lot more people would also be able to work if unions and davis-bacon prevailing wage acts didn't force employers to pay a certain amount and essentially cap the number of workers they can hire to remain profitable.

 

[lupi]

Do I get a shuffle from attempting to read the entire oppv

 

[trenchfoot]

Maybe the wages are somewhat influenced by unions,but the benefits are most certainly not. To get the sweet pensions that public sector unions get would require Mr. private sector joe's 401k to be putting out 15% returns or he has been putting away something crazy like 30% of his income. What irritates me the most is the public sector union's pension funds that estimate an impossible 8% on their investment returns and when it comes up 50% short, expect the taxpayer to eat the difference. I sure would love someone guaranteeing my 401k's rate of return!

Comparing public sector to private sector wages/benefits is not a fair comparison to make your point, mostly due to the fact that public sector wage/benefit packages are benefit heavy to compensate for the lower wage line most public sector jobs have in comparison to the private sector.

 

[trenchfoot]

So in other word, not everyone can be a pilots/ceo/shareholders but everyone expects to be paid like one?

OK, I see where you're going with this. You win.

 

[Bill Wiltrack]

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I don't think that is a logical statement nor valid argument.



It just doesn't fit here.


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[Steeplerot]

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I don't think that is a logical statement nor valid argument.



It just doesn't fit here.


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A bot? Does not compute Dave.

 

[boomerang]

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I have dots in my post.



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[Matt1970]

CEOs / shareholders making a hugely disproportionate amount of money over the average worker.

When your decisions are what makes or breaks a company, you should be rewarded accordingly.

 

[CrackRabbit]

A bot? Does not compute Dave.

Bot or spammer, either way I want my free, union made, Obamapod! :sneaky:

 

[Acanthus]

When your decisions are what makes or breaks a company, you should be rewarded accordingly.

I completely agree with that sentiment.

It should not, however, be five hundred fold greater.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Comparing public sector to private sector wages/benefits is not a fair comparison to make your point, mostly due to the fact that public sector wage/benefit packages are benefit heavy to compensate for the lower wage line most public sector jobs have in comparison to the private sector.

Actually you shouldn't make the comparison because businesses depend on profit generation and can fail or succeed based on their own expenses which raise the cost of their goods and services whereas government just prints more money and public unions (see California) can vote themselves benefits, job security and pay raises by simply manipulating the electorate no matter the economic ramifications and at the expense of everyone else in society.

 

[Bill Wiltrack]

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[Bill Wiltrack]

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This is my original thread upon this forum.



It means a lot to me.


It is, what I think, an important message.

What does labor want?
"It wants the earth and the fullness thereof. There is nothing too precious; there is nothing too beautiful, too lofty, too ennobling, unless it is within the scope and comprehension of labor's aspirations and wants.

"We want more schoolhouses and less jails, more books and less arsenals, more learning and less vice, more constant work and less crime, more leisure and less greed, more justice and less revenge.

In fact, more of the opportunities to cultivate our better natures, to make manhood more noble, womanhood more beautiful and childhood more happy and bright.”

~~~ Samuel Gompers ~~~


Aug. 28, 1893






If Samuel Gomper’s prayer to the bravest and noblest could be updated perhaps it would sound like this…




What does Organized Labor want?

"It wants the earth and the fullness thereof. There is nothing too precious; there is nothing too beautiful, too lofty, too ennobling, unless it is within the scope and comprehension of Organized Labor's aspirations and wants.

"We want more schoolhouses and less jails, more books and less arsenals, more learning and less vice, more constant work and less crime, more leisure and less greed, more justice and less revenge.

In fact, more of the opportunities to cultivate our better natures, to make manhood more noble, womanhood more beautiful and childhood more happy and bright.”

.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Your name + google + Check out the KOS result = Wow!

 

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Hey wait a minute.


Don't bring up that thread.



I was totally misunderstood in that thread. TOTALLY.




I have over 2,000 post on the internet right now.


Looking at that one Daily Kos post is like the most misrepresentative thing that someone could find about my opinions.







Now...let me go back to enjoying my breakfast....







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[Matt1970]

 

[piasabird]

It was good for getting me layed off every year.

 

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Here's some...



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[Matt1970]

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Here's some...



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Union built? More like Union assembled, something every computer shop in the country is doing. The Ram, Hard Drive, Motherboard, Processor, CD/DVD drive, Power Supply and case are all built overseas. Also, their basic model PC with just a Pentium processor and 500 Gig Hard Drive is $900. Lol, price gouge much? BTW, Monitor and shipping not included.

The fail is strong with this one........

 

[Bill Wiltrack]

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OK. I will agree we have a way to go ingraining workers rights into the assembly and manufacturing of high-tech components.

We find common ground in knowing the company I linked-to is a step in the right direction. To whatever degree union labor is used.



Always look for the opportunity to ingrain Organized Labor into your life - in always.



Thank you for responding to my thread.



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[NoStateofMind]

Always look for the opportunity to ingrain Organized Labor into your life - in always.

Yeah....