Original Gas Thread: Americans enjoying $4 gallon despite oil oversupply highest in 8 yrs

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: yankeesfan

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I don't know how many oil tankers come into the US market every week? Still, one oil tanker a week has to help. It may not be the answer to the problem, but I think it has to be a step in the right direction.

It's not like anybody in this country is dying of hunger, but they are dying for oil.

Chevron named oil tanker the "Condoleezza Rice"

Dang, you're gullible. Shouldn't the writing on the ship be slanted? That is so fake, I'm laughing.

edit: Slanted as in getting smaller with distance.

Nice source, BTW

You missed my point, ethanol production will equal one tanker of oil a week into the US. I don't know if the picture is real or not and don't really care.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c...2001/05/05/MN223743.DTL&type=printable

Chevron honored Rice by naming an oil tanker Condoleezza Rice after her, but

 

[johnnobts]

Ethanol is a bit player in the energy realm. It lacks the punch of gasoline, the supply of gasoline, and the cost of gasoline. It is subsidized mainly by the government. Creating ethanol comes at the expense of farmlands and crops. Bread or gas, which do you choose?

Ethanol will never be a viable alternative to gasoline. Ethanol's market share of transportation fuel is less than .1%. We would need decades of double digit growth figures before ethanol would be even a marginal player in transportation. The supply is simply no t there and nor will it ever be.

The scale of the problem eludes most people. Once we begin talking about millions and billions, the mind loses grasp of the numbers involved.
______________

good point about ethanol, its a weak fuel, can never make enough of it. if it was really the "miracle fuel" the private industry would be all over it themselves. sort of a reminder that most things that are govt. subsidized aren't so great. the only reason ethanol gets so much attention is really b/c of places like iowa where the primaries always are, and the candidates macke huge promises to corn growers just to win the first few votes in that state to get the nod.

hydrogen is where its at, but this technology won't be cheap enough and readily available for another 20 years... until then, hybrids hybrids hybrids, and oh, let us freaking drill in alaska. everyone in alaska is dying to do this, its a shame that the liberal tree huggers in states hundreds of miles away get to dictate alaska's energy policy.

 

[Pabster]

Dave, your proposal is absurd. That's like telling all the little kiddies to leave the ice cream truck alone.

AAA reports Labor Day travel up 1% from last year, even with record-high gas prices. Obviously, Americans are complaining (as always) but they continue to drive more miles and apparently the gas just isn't high enough yet to slow it down.

Some estimates from economists say gas prices won't slow anything down until it hits $3.50/gal. I realize it is already there or very close in some areas but they're talking nationwide average price.

 

[mithrandir2001]

You think gas prices are bad now? Wait until Katrina destroys all the refining operations in LA, MS. She's looking to be a CAT 5 cane and that just spells total destruction for anything in her path. New Orleans could potentially be a lost cause, i.e. water over the dikes, total loss. Potentially.

 

[mithrandir2001]

We Americans are a strange breed. Just yesterday I drove 120 miles round trip to ride my mountain bike in the Lehigh Valley. Driving in leiu of high gas prices is almost defiance: "I don't care what you do, I'm not hanging my car keys up!" I spent about $12 for those 120 miles but frankly it's like asking yourself, "am I to put my life on hold?" There are only so many places to ride locally and with the oncoming rains I had to drive some distance north to escape and salvage my afternoon of outdoor pleasure.

I find it very challenging to cut back on driving, it's just programmed into my mind to get in the car and drive at will. It also helps that financially I am far from living check-to-check so I can eat the added costs.

 

[alent1234]

www.nymex.com

Oil just hit $70

and doing what you want in spite of high oil prices is part of being American. This is because successful cultures overcome their problems, while the others complain and tell themselves they need to change their lifestyle.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: alent1234
www.nymex.com

Oil just hit $70

and doing what you want in spite of high oil prices is part of being American. This is because successful cultures overcome their problems, while the others complain and tell themselves they need to change their lifestyle.

Not changing our lifestyle means the extinction of the United States as we know it.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: alent1234
www.nymex.com

Oil just hit $70

and doing what you want in spite of high oil prices is part of being American. This is because successful cultures overcome their problems, while the others complain and tell themselves they need to change their lifestyle.

Not changing our lifestyle means the extinction of the United States as we know it.

IT appears changes are happening, read an article last night say states are starting to lose on gas taxes, meaning consumption is down.

 

[Engineer]

Let the Katrina gouging begin as gas in Mount Sterling, KY jumped $0.61 to $3.11 per gallon regular.

Also, local Sam's in Lexington, KY ran out of gas last night as panicked customers rushed to buy gas in fear of a rise. I did notice that the lines were long at several stations yesterday on the way home from work.

Maybe Dave is on to something...maybe $4.00 is coming quicker than we all think! :Q

Oh, and $80.00 doesn't look that far away while we're sitting at $71 and change currently!

 

[CaptnKirk]

Fuel jetting with alcohol is in the range of 8:1, and gasoline is 15:1.
For combustion in a motor vehicle that is like getting half the milage on Alcohol that you get with gasoline.
Your car gets 24 MPG on the road with gas, you get 12 MPH with alcohol for the same trip.
If alcohol cannot be produced and supplied at half the price of gasoline, it's a wash.
Most Gasahol was a 10% dilution of alcohol in the gasoline, providing an 'oxygenator' to better reduce Nitrogen oxides and to a lessor degree Sulpher oxides.
The gasohol get slightly less fuel milage with the dilution because it had to be 'ritchened' to butn more fuel mixture, around 14:1, which would be around 7% milage drop per tank full.
Alcohol by itself gives off very noxious fumes, real eye-watering exhaust.

 

[sonoma1993]

I was listening to detroit news, they were saying gas stations around that area are running out of gasoline. Id hate too see gas hit $4.00 a gallon. I think that will slowly start to send our economy back into a recession.

 

[alent1234]

wholesale price of gas is up to $2.31 on NYMEX

That means $3 average prices around the country. Be sure to write thank you letters to The Sierra Club, Greenpeace and other groups.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: alent1234
www.nymex.com

Oil just hit $70

and doing what you want in spite of high oil prices is part of being American. This is because successful cultures overcome their problems, while the others complain and tell themselves they need to change their lifestyle.

Not changing our lifestyle means the extinction of the United States as we know it.

IT appears changes are happening, read an article last night say states are starting to lose on gas taxes, meaning consumption is down.

Consumption is up for the year, about 1.7%. An eariler post from AAA showed that there will be more drivers on the road this Labor Day weekend this year than last year.

 

[Vic]

The lack of temporal cognition on this board is sometimes astounding. Y'all know what next Monday is, right? Katrina was just good timing, no more.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Vic
The lack of temporal cognition on this board is sometimes astounding. Y'all know what next Monday is, right? Katrina was just good timing, no more.

If you referring to my reference of Katrina in the above statement, then that's worthy of a . I full well know it's Labor Day on Monday and that energy traders are using each and every single event for justification of higher oil prices. Pure speculation, in my opinion.

If you were not referring to my statement, then no needed.

I tend to agree with you on your view of speculation, weak dollar, etc. on oil prices, but you don't need to come off as an @ss to mention the point!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Vic
The lack of temporal cognition on this board is sometimes astounding. Y'all know what next Monday is, right? Katrina was just good timing, no more.

If you referring to my reference of Katrina in the above statement, then that's worthy of a . I full well know it's Labor Day on Monday and that energy traders are using each and every single event for justification of higher oil prices. Pure speculation, in my opinion.

If you were not referring to my statement, then no needed.

I tend to agree with you on your view of speculation, weak dollar, etc. on oil prices, but you don't need to come off as an @ss to mention the point!

I was not referring to any single post in particular, so don't offense. I had just browsed through the whole thread and realized that, amongst all the emotion and the other distractions, no one has been watching the trends.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: alent1234
www.nymex.com

Oil just hit $70

and doing what you want in spite of high oil prices is part of being American. This is because successful cultures overcome their problems, while the others complain and tell themselves they need to change their lifestyle.

Not changing our lifestyle means the extinction of the United States as we know it.

IT appears changes are happening, read an article last night say states are starting to lose on gas taxes, meaning consumption is down.

Consumption is up for the year, about 1.7%. An eariler post from AAA showed that there will be more drivers on the road this Labor Day weekend this year than last year.

That was before gas is going to pass 4 bucks a gallon.

(you righties better get those CJ jollies off those consumer sentiment numbers today--watch em plummet from here on)

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

(you righties better get those CJ jollies off those consumer sentiment numbers today--watch em plummet from here on)

Watch daily confidence index numbers here.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: alent1234
wholesale price of gas is up to $2.31 on NYMEX

That means $3 average prices around the country. Be sure to write thank you letters to The Sierra Club, Greenpeace and other groups.

Why? For failing in their efforts to get Congress raise mileage standards?

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: alent1234
wholesale price of gas is up to $2.31 on NYMEX

That means $3 average prices around the country. Be sure to write thank you letters to The Sierra Club, Greenpeace and other groups.

Why? For failing in their efforts to get Congress raise mileage standards?

Are you serious? When exactly was the last refinery built in the US? And exactly why has it been so long? Nah, couldn't be the Nimbys, Sierra Club, and other Enivornmental "activists".

Alent1234 is right - we need to thank those who allowed our refinery process to lag behind increasing demand. Congress people and groups who have made it nearly impossible to build new refineries should be outed to the American public so people know where to focus their rage when they try whining about gas, natural gas, and heating oil prices.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: alent1234
wholesale price of gas is up to $2.31 on NYMEX

That means $3 average prices around the country. Be sure to write thank you letters to The Sierra Club, Greenpeace and other groups.

Why? For failing in their efforts to get Congress raise mileage standards?

Are you serious? When exactly was the last refinery built in the US? And exactly why has it been so long? Nah, couldn't be the Nimbys, Sierra Club, and other Enivornmental "activists".

Alent1234 is right - we need to thank those who allowed our refinery process to lag behind increasing demand. Congress people and groups who have made it nearly impossible to build new refineries should be outed to the American public so people know where to focus their rage when they try whining about gas, natural gas, and heating oil prices.

Refineries are very expnesive to build, last a very long time, and carry huge liabilities. The oil companies haven't been chomping at the bit to build them. Why invest billions in new infrastructure for a dying industry? Once peak oil hits, there is no need for more capacity. Case in point: In Arizona, right now there is a fully permitted refinery site waiting for investors. Oil is at ~$68/gal. Where are the investors?

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Refineries are very expnesive to build, last a very long time, and carry huge liabilities. The oil companies haven't been chomping at the bit to build them. Why invest billions in new infrastructure for a dying industry? Once peak oil hits, there is no need for more capacity. Case in point: In Arizona, right now there is a fully permitted refinery site waiting for investors. Oil is at ~$68/gal. Where are the investors?

^
^
^

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: alent1234
wholesale price of gas is up to $2.31 on NYMEX

That means $3 average prices around the country. Be sure to write thank you letters to The Sierra Club, Greenpeace and other groups.

Why? For failing in their efforts to get Congress raise mileage standards?

Are you serious? When exactly was the last refinery built in the US? And exactly why has it been so long? Nah, couldn't be the Nimbys, Sierra Club, and other Enivornmental "activists".

Alent1234 is right - we need to thank those who allowed our refinery process to lag behind increasing demand. Congress people and groups who have made it nearly impossible to build new refineries should be outed to the American public so people know where to focus their rage when they try whining about gas, natural gas, and heating oil prices.

Refineries are very expnesive to build, last a very long time, and carry huge liabilities. The oil companies haven't been chomping at the bit to build them. Why invest billions in new infrastructure for a dying industry? Once peak oil hits, there is no need for more capacity. Case in point: In Arizona, right now there is a fully permitted refinery site waiting for investors. Oil is at ~$68/gal. Where are the investors?

Exactly. Oil companies haven't built refineries for this long time, because they don't want to. Period.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: ironwing

Refineries are very expnesive to build, last a very long time, and carry huge liabilities. The oil companies haven't been chomping at the bit to build them. Why invest billions in new infrastructure for a dying industry? Once peak oil hits, there is no need for more capacity. Case in point: In Arizona, right now there is a fully permitted refinery site waiting for investors. Oil is at ~$68/gal. Where are the investors?

^
^
^

Investors profiting on overpriced oil and gas futures!!! Why build refineries when capacity is at top and oil production is "expected" to peak in the near future and then decline.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: alent1234
wholesale price of gas is up to $2.31 on NYMEX

That means $3 average prices around the country. Be sure to write thank you letters to The Sierra Club, Greenpeace and other groups.

Why? For failing in their efforts to get Congress raise mileage standards?

Are you serious? When exactly was the last refinery built in the US? And exactly why has it been so long? Nah, couldn't be the Nimbys, Sierra Club, and other Enivornmental "activists".

Alent1234 is right - we need to thank those who allowed our refinery process to lag behind increasing demand. Congress people and groups who have made it nearly impossible to build new refineries should be outed to the American public so people know where to focus their rage when they try whining about gas, natural gas, and heating oil prices.

Refineries are very expnesive to build, last a very long time, and carry huge liabilities. The oil companies haven't been chomping at the bit to build them. Why invest billions in new infrastructure for a dying industry? Once peak oil hits, there is no need for more capacity. Case in point: In Arizona, right now there is a fully permitted refinery site waiting for investors. Oil is at ~$68/gal. Where are the investors?

Ofcourse they aren't chomping at the bit because they don't want the hassle. You know why it takes so long to build and is so expensive? That's right - NIMBY lawsuits, enviro lawsuits and regulation.
Peak Oil :roll:
Why exactly has there been no new ones built in ~30 years? It's not peak oil. Try again.

Investors? Infrastructure? Are you serious? There is a booming ethanol industry where investment is huge. According to your thinking no one should invest in ethanol because of peak oil since ethanol is basically just an additive for gasoline(although it could be a direct source but doesn't have the capacity in total to replace oil). Your thinking doesn't add up in the face of reality. Time to try another left wing propaganda point.
Infrastructure? It's already there.

There is NO reason we should be running at ~98% of capacity in the refining industry - and we have the NIMBY people and enviro-nuts to thank.