Original NES and SNES controllers

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

007ELmO

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2005
2,046
36
101
Holy crap. I got everything except the new NES controllers. I swapped the console covers and put Zelda 1 in. First, it's really hard to take the cartridge out, I didn't actually get it out yet (lol).

I turned the thing on really quick and didn't play with any settings, and zelda 1 looked amazing. No noise. Played briefly on a plasma TV, I didn't feel any lag at all - strange, considering I wasn't in game mode on it and I thought I read the lag on my TV is 60-70ms.

I need to decide what I want to do for a monitor, maybe one of the recent Sony TVs that are 20ms or less. I was instantly taken to a different world when Zelda 1 came up, and the image was so damn clear. And using an NES gamepad, amazing.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,097
460
126
Some of the Blinking Light Wins are a little tight. They based the removal tension on the top loader, but didn't factor in the fact that the top loader had a lot more surface area to grab the game cart for removal purposes.

I would suggest playing a bit with the video settings on the Hi-Def NES. You will find for some games you may really like certain settings. For instance, I find I love any of the MegaMan games and Mike Tyson's PunchOut with the HQ2X. I havn't tried Zelda with it, but I suspect that it might look pretty good. Many games will look horrible with it, but some look really good, even so much so that they could almost pass as 16bit era game. It really all depends on if the sprite models used were really well done or were missing key details in certain animations.
 
Last edited:

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
I ordered a Blinking Light Win. I plan to mod it with some kind of eject mechanism (the original BLW designers should have thought of this). Anyone have a primer for how to design models for 3D printing?
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
... First, it's really hard to take the cartridge out, I didn't actually get it out yet (lol).
Aftermarket cartridge connector.

I just recently experienced 2 of those death grip connectors that wouldn't even play 1 of my 3 Zelda carts. The connectors were different brands, too. Probably the same manufacturer anyway. I returned them. They shouldn't be selling them like that. The same cart worked fine on an NES with original connector.

Your NES doesn't have a Blinking Light Win, right?
 
Last edited:

007ELmO

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2005
2,046
36
101
Aftermarket cartridge connector.

I just recently experienced 2 of those death grip connectors that wouldn't even play 1 of my 3 Zelda carts. He connectors were brands, too. Probably the same manufacturer anyway. I returned them. They shouldn't be selling them like that. The same cart worked fine on an NES with original connector.

Your NES doesn't have a Blinking Light Win, right?

Correct, it does not have the BLW. Can I break this thing trying to get the cartridge out? lol.

I actually bought this to not apply any HQX or filtering, although they do look very nice. I love the pixels. I wanted the integer multiplier that was spoken about in this thread. I am happy, I might move my Plasma to the game area - the black level is very good, the colors pop, and the pixels are blocky and sharp. What more can we ask for?

I'm going to defeat all those games that I never could when I was younger. I'll try, at least. It doesn't feel laggy, I'll try game mode later on and take some pictures when the TV is moved.

Is the BLW mod also a very tight connection?
 
Last edited:

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,097
460
126
I don't think 3D printing will help too much for an ejection piece (at least for any piece that applies the force to the cart itself) as they will all be too weak across the multiple layers that create the piece. You would be much better off using injection molding or casting. It is relatively easy to create cast aluminium pieces. You just need a create a cheap furnace (which can be done with a heavy clay pot, an old steal fire-extinguisher, a PVC pipe, a hair dryer, and charcoal). You can then cut the form you want to make out of a piece of foamboard with a 1-2 inch "tab" on the top. You then get a bag of bentonite clay powder and in another clay pot put some clay in, the lay in the foam cutout that you made with the tab at the top, then fill in the rest of the pot with more clay powder (shake it good to make sure it fills in all the gaps) and then make a small cup shaped indent at the top with the foam tab sticking out into the middle. You then pour your molten aluminium into that hole, it will burn up the foamboard and replace the space with molten aluminium, keep pouring until it puddles up in the top of the hole and let it sit and cool for about 30 minutes and it should be hard enough to pull it out of the clay. You need to smooth it down a little bit, and snip off the tab, but at the end, you will have a nice solid aluminium piece. To get the aluminium, just save up a bunch of soda cans, and melt them in the furnace (paint and all). You will just need to skim the drek off the top.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
Is the BLW mod also a very tight connection?

BLW was recently revised to be a little easier to remove than the earlier units. It would still be much tighter than a standard NES connector. That's why I want to devise an eject mechanism.
 

007ELmO

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2005
2,046
36
101
I'm trying to find another hi-def NES or Analogue NT. There is one of the latter on bay for $1000, a little pricey. It does come with new old stock NES controllers and extension cables, but still quite a bit.

It's difficult to get gametech/kevtris to respond on hi-def NES stock, I think they're done for a while after unloading 40-50 of them on Ebay recently.
 
Last edited:

007ELmO

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2005
2,046
36
101
I must be crazy lucky, I checked a few times today and just 5 minutes ago I saw gametech posted another hi-def NES for sale on ebay. I won it! My brother in law and sister will probably think this is awesome, well I hope they do.

This is way better than the analogue NT, to have the actual NES-001 modded is a treat. Now just have to find new old stock NES controllers again somehow.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
save states are a glorious thing.

I get save states with my save state mappers on my PowerPak flash cart on a real NES hooked up to a Sony PVM monitor.

Also SNES outputs straight RGB on it's AV out, no mods needed. Just an RGB cable. I went SCART like most do just to have a common standard for all my consoles with widely available switch boxes, then ordered a custom SCART to 4 x BNC RGP cable to hook the switch to the back of the PVM.

NES was natively always a NTSC device so it's a little less important. There is no real palette or DAC in the circuitry, there isn't even a frame buffer. The pixel index is literally interpreted as one of 52 (iirc) hardwired analog phase shifts corresponding to a well defined muddy NTSC color. The NES puts out a clean enough NTSC signal that in my tech demos with even/odd and checker stipples no matter how hard I tried I could not get it to blur to simulate translucency even dicking with the PPU clocking to try to get it to cause interlace artifacts. Not sure if this is just from the 256 wide vs 320 wide from the Genesis not smudging fine detail enough or just the clean output of the NES. They even do this extra dot thing every other line to "confuse" NTSC and eliminate interlacing effects with great results. Sadly this relegates translucency to temporally multiplexed overlays of opaque and no draw every other frame (aka Sonic the Hedgehog style flickering shields/shadows).

I might have to look into an RGB mod for fun though. As clean as the output is, it still suffers from classic NTSC phase drift , eg rainbows. From what I understand, modern RPG mods are just monitoring the cart address lines for CRAM reads that occur with every pixel during scanout then entirely reconstructs it's own copy of a digital frame buffer from that and bypassing the native NTSC output altogether. Pretty genius really, just ignoring the PPU completely and monitoring address reads during PPU scanout to build your own frame buffer digitally. Prior approaches in the analog domain attempted to replace or rebuild the PPU itself or resocket the PPU with an RGB model from an arcade board with the side effects of having wrong colors in some games.
 
Last edited:

007ELmO

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2005
2,046
36
101
That's a good point, I haven't been too forward thinking with this, I did read quite a bit about SCART/RGB and the Sony PVM. I sort of want a Sony PVM, just the massive amount of room it takes up in the area I'm probably putting this setup might not work.

Sometimes the more you think about something, the more chance it happens. I just found another hi-def NES, so I'll be making Christmas presents out of these. Really awesome.

It's difficult to find OEM Old Stock NEW NES controllers for cheap. There's one on ebay for $50 (new), and hong kong has them for $28 but slow shipping.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,097
460
126
Yeah, I keep meaning to pickup a couple new old stock dogbone controllers. I have 4 of the original controllers (2 that came with my NES and 2 that came from one of my friends NES that I bought off him in 1991 or 1992 when my original NES died). Never owned a top load NES (still don't), so I never had those controllers.

I did pickup a pair of new old stock SNES controllers not too long ago ($15 a piece). Also for the SNES RGB, I believe it is only certain consoles that have it (the SNES-mini all do, but not all of the original units have native RGB) and you really need a RGB amplifier in the system to get it to work properly (otherwise it is too dark).
 

007ELmO

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2005
2,046
36
101
From videos I watched, it seems like the dogbone is lighter weight and feels cheaper than the original NES-001 controllers. I suspect I will have thumb issues, but that's just how it was back then.

I'll probably stick with growing/maintaining an NES game collection once I have everything set up.

ELmO
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
That's a good point, I haven't been too forward thinking with this, I did read quite a bit about SCART/RGB and the Sony PVM. I sort of want a Sony PVM, just the massive amount of room it takes up in the area I'm probably putting this setup might not work.

Sometimes the more you think about something, the more chance it happens. I just found another hi-def NES, so I'll be making Christmas presents out of these. Really awesome.

It's difficult to find OEM Old Stock NEW NES controllers for cheap. There's one on ebay for $50 (new), and hong kong has them for $28 but slow shipping.


My main problem with going to extreme lengths for an RGB setup is that many PVMs and RGB displays are already failing, the ones that aren't will fail eventually and will be even harder to replace in the future, all while S-Video and Component provide most of the same improvement for many more easily-available TVs.

Every time someone poo-poos someone for desiring S-Video or component just because RGB is possible ("what's the point when you can have RGB?!"), I think about how even Jason from Game-Tech.us (the installer working with Kevtris on the Hi-Def NES) installs a ton of RGB mods and yet even he doesn't seem to have properly working RGB PVM (purple shift) and the end users still don't have an improved output that they can connect to a large traditional CRT TV (few RGB displays are over 21"). Kevin also had a bad RGB display he tried to fix. Even if you happen to get a good one, good luck getting replacing it 10, 15, 20 years from now.

I imagine that most of Jason's clients are running theirs on a tiny modded PSone LCD, a small PVM under 15", an arcade cabinet, a similarly bad/failing RGB CRT, or are only doing it for improved video capture (Twitch, YouTube, etc). Even if they have a perfectly working 19" PVM (about the largest I regularly see) and they are perfectly OK with connecting all their consoles to it, does that really belong front and center where a TV should go in a living room/game room/man cave? Sounds like a private bedroom setup to me. Sorry, but "the best" isn't always the most appropriate.

Though few would agree with me, I'd S-Video mod most consoles before I'd RGB mod one (like SNES2). If the Hi-Def NES didn't exist, I'd be one of the ones adding a "pointless" Component circuit to an NES RGB. With S-Video/Component I don't need a Framemeister to connect it to various TVs in much higher quality than the original Composite/RF. That's important to me.

It still bugs me when people say S-Video is hardly any better than Composite and that it only makes sense if you move up to something better, like Component/RGB. I strongly disagree. If you want to talk about diminishing returns for your effort, I've done enough comparisons to know that the difference in perceived pixel sharpness and text readability between Composite and S-Video is MUCH greater than the difference between S-Video and Component. S-Video improves things greatly on old TVs that don't even have Component and still looks closer to Component than Composite on a TV that's capable of both.

In 2003 I connected my GameCube to my Sony XBR910 with Composite, S-Video, and Component using a rare cable that was stolen from me a few months later. I eventually obtained another so I can repeat the test today. Last I checked this was still the highest image quality rating of any television ever made (Sony SFP CRT). First I tested Composite, then I tested S-Video and the difference in text readability and pixel detail was impressive. Then I switched to 480i Component and had trouble seeing any difference.

I was able to output both simultaneously, switch back and forth, and use Split View to see both side-by-side. When I enabled 480p Component it looked like the resolution was halved (may have lost temporal resolution enabled by scanlines). The pixels were perfectly sharp but the tiny little squirrel on the 1080 Avalanche title screen was now just an unrecognizable blob of perfectly sharp pixels. Switching back to 480i with scanlines completely resolved this. The squirrel looked like a squirrel again.

I don't know how much of it might have been the TV's image processing (impossible to disable) but the fact remains that S-Video and Component were almost indistinguishable at 480i and the biggest leap BY FAR was the jump from Composite to S-Video. I got that $2,300 TV in particular because other ~$800 widescreen CRTs would force enhanced or hi-def sources to 16:9, stretching/distorting 480p games with no 16:9 mode (like Metroid Prime). I guess the XBR image processor is what allowed aspect adjustment in ED/HD, but it also caused strange artifacts in 480p Wind Waker. With newfound respect for S-Video and scanlines, I mostly stuck with Component in 480i mode until the Wii came along (no artifacts there).

Like many S-Video mods, many RGB mods are hackish with dark video, incorrect colors, etc but with the additional issue of not improving anything on the vast majority of non-RGB-capable TVs. Considering that a Funtastic N64 with native S-Video can look better than a RGB-modded NS1 N64, I'd say that it's often a lot of wasted effort for a console that already has native S-Video (Funtastic always had better Composite output but they only recently became RGB mod-able; though natively RGB inside, NS1 models are no longer highly sought after due to inferior video quality).

By all means, add RGB to a console that doesn't have S-Video but consider adding S-Video or Component while you are at it so that you can enjoy improved image quality on many more televisions and future-proof it. Even when modern TVs stop including S-Video or Component inputs and you have to resort to some kind of adapter there are going to be many more options for S-Video and Component than there are for RGB.
 
Last edited:

007ELmO

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2005
2,046
36
101
Yes, I got in direct contact with Jason. That's how I've been racking up the hi-def NES systems, lol. It's tough though, as they seem to be concentrating on how they want to sell the kit (mod themselves, or sell the mod) - not sure.

I've been watching a lot of YT videos on hi-def and other NES mods. I'm impressed with the hi-def NESmod and I think the market is here and now for it. Retro gaming is coming back for the older generation gamers (sigh).

I remember going into a TV shop and plugging my gamecube into a Sony XBR and playing Mario Sunshine on it for a while. The shop let me test the TV out. Those were the days.

My Panasonic plasma looks surprisingly good and doesn't feel laggy with the hi-def NES. The black level allows black pillar bars on the side (vs. gray or anything else), it's not distracting to me.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
From videos I watched, it seems like the dogbone is lighter weight and feels cheaper than the original NES-001 controllers. I suspect I will have thumb issues, but that's just how it was back then.

I'll probably stick with growing/maintaining an NES game collection once I have everything set up.

ELmO
Perhaps you saw a video about one of the cheap replicas because the official dogbone is as well-built as the SNES controller while being much more ergonomic than the original NES controller (rounded edges, convex buttons at an angle, Start and Select andgled for your right thumb, etc).

It has all the bracing under the PCB so you can mash the buttons as hard as you want. It has the same stealth tension/strain relief so there's no springy protrusion where the cable enters the controller (even NES Max and Advantage didn't bother). The cord still winds through posts so that tugging it doesn't pull on the PCB connections. The only place I see where they could have saved money other economies of scale (some parts swap with their other current products at the time) is that is has one fewer screw. Six screws was a bit excessive for the original. The dogbone now has an internal disconnect for the cord, which is an added expense.

I'm pretty sure that the D-pad is larger but economies of scale could make that cheaper anyway (I think it's the same as the original Gameboy).
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
Yes, I got in direct contact with Jason. That's how I've been racking up the hi-def NES systems, lol. It's tough though, as they seem to be concentrating on how they want to sell the kit (mod themselves, or sell the mod) - not sure.

I've been watching a lot of YT videos on hi-def and other NES mods. I'm impressed with the hi-def NESmod and I think the market is here and now for it. Retro gaming is coming back for the older generation gamers (sigh).

I remember going into a TV shop and plugging my gamecube into a Sony XBR and playing Mario Sunshine on it for a while. The shop let me test the TV out. Those were the days.

My Panasonic plasma looks surprisingly good and doesn't feel laggy with the hi-def NES. The black level allows black pillar bars on the side (vs. gray or anything else), it's not distracting to me.
I understand that they want to maximize their investment and I really hope they aren't considering keeping installations to themselves. I have so many NES Control Decks just waiting for me to mod myself!

If he insists on selling them pre-modded, I hope he at least considers offering a PCB swap where I send in a stack of PCBs in exchange for pre-modded ones. Considering that the components wouldn't be sent dangling, that essentially means that he'd just be installing sockets for me.
 
Last edited:

007ELmO

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2005
2,046
36
101
That is just my opinion/guess, based on them selling like 40-50 on ebay (premodded), but the information looks like they would have had a mod kit. They're probably thinking about the best route to go. I am also amassing non modified NES because I needed the body parts to clean up the hi-def NES sets. I don't know what they're actually thinking, other than they have a good product on their hands.
 

007ELmO

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2005
2,046
36
101
Perhaps you saw a video about one of the cheap replicas because the official dogbone is as well-built as the SNES controller while being much more ergonomic than the original NES controller (rounded edges, convex buttons at an angle, Start and Select andgled for your right thumb, etc).

It has all the bracing under the PCB so you can mash the buttons as hard as you want. It has the same stealth tension/strain relief so there's no springy protrusion where the cable enters the controller (even NES Max and Advantage didn't bother). The cord still winds through posts so that tugging it doesn't pull on the PCB connections. The only place I see where they could have saved money other economies of scale (some parts swap with their other current products at the time) is that is has one fewer screw. Six screws was a bit excessive for the original. The dogbone now has an internal disconnect for the cord, which is an added expense.

I'm pretty sure that the D-pad is larger but economies of scale could make that cheaper anyway (I think it's the same as the original Gameboy).

It's likely. I will try the dogbone controller next year! It does look more comfortable.
 

007ELmO

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2005
2,046
36
101
I need to get control of this obsession.

There's a guy near me who has an ebay store that sells high quality, cleaned/tested NES games.

I now have these games:
Zelda 1
Mario 1, 2, 3
Castlevania 1, 2
Double Dragon 1, 2
Dragon Warrior 1
Tetris
Ninja Gaiden 1
TMNT 1, 2, 3
Megaman 2
Mike Tyson's Punchout

How do you guys store your games (outside of just using the Nintendo sleeve)? Any cheap Ikea cabinets we could use?
 
Last edited:

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
I need to get control of this obsession.

There's a guy near me who has an ebay store that sells high quality, cleaned/tested NES games.

I now have these games:
Zelda 1
Mario 1, 2, 3
Castlevania 1, 2
Double Dragon 1, 2
Dragon Warrior 1
Tetris
Ninja Gaiden 1
TMNT 1, 2, 3
Megaman 2
Mike Tyson's Punchout

How do you guys store your games (outside of just using the Nintendo sleeve)? Any cheap Ikea cabinets we could use?

Awesome selections there. All of them.

Some overlap with my own recent acquisitions:
- Mike Tyson's Punch Out!! (had the non-Tyson version)
- Megaman 2
- Duck Tales
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
I need to get control of this obsession.

There's a guy near me who has an ebay store that sells high quality, cleaned/tested NES games.

I now have these games:
Zelda 1
Mario 1, 2, 3
Castlevania 1, 2
Double Dragon 1, 2
Dragon Warrior 1
Tetris
Ninja Gaiden 1
TMNT 1, 2, 3
Megaman 2
Mike Tyson's Punchout

How do you guys store your games (outside of just using the Nintendo sleeve)? Any cheap Ikea cabinets we could use?

I run out of storage for nearly every storage method I choose, so I have a bunch in purpose-manufactured organizers, a bunch in NES game cases, a bunch in any appropriately sized container I could find, a bunch in original boxes, and a bunch lined up on shelves in sleeves and a bunch more just loose. Yeah, I got bunches of bunches, but way too many are dupes / commons so the collection isn't nearly complete.

I do use one of my organizer drawers for the ones I actually play but even it is out of space. If you only intend to collect the games you'll play one or two of those should suffice.
 
Last edited:

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
I need to get control of this obsession.

There's a guy near me who has an ebay store that sells high quality, cleaned/tested NES games.

I now have these games:
Zelda 1
Mario 1, 2, 3
Castlevania 1, 2
Double Dragon 1, 2
Dragon Warrior 1
Tetris
Ninja Gaiden 1
TMNT 1, 2, 3
Megaman 2
Mike Tyson's Punchout

How do you guys store your games (outside of just using the Nintendo sleeve)? Any cheap Ikea cabinets we could use?

ebay store... so what was that roughly $100 a game?
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |