Other Direct competitors to the Subaru Outback?

[NutBucket]

It's all new despite not having new drivetrains. Some quotes from the press release:

"The 2015 Legacy’s windshield is more raked, pulled forward 2.0 in. at the base."

"With nearly the same exterior footprint as the previous Legacy, the 2015 model offers a roomier passenger cabin, at 104.6 cu. ft. (up from 103 cu. ft.). The added space yields gains in shoulder, hip, elbow and leg room. Rear seat legroom measures a generous 38.1 inches. The Legacy’s trunk has been enlarged to 15.0 cu. ft., up slightly from 14.7 cu. ft. for the 2014 model..."

These types of changes don't happen for a mid-cycle refresh.

 

[Kaido]

Here's a teaser image of the 2015 redesign:

https://s.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/251/762/6/S2517626/slug/l/outback-1.jpg

Some spy shots:

https://www.autoblog.com/2014/03/21/new-subaru-outback-spy-shots/

We will see more at the NY auto show this month:

https://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/03/subaru-outback-new-york-teaser-official/

 

[Kaido]

We've been thinking about the Outback as a family car, it's a nice alternative to a minivan. The Special Appearance Package has an amazing brown leather trim option:

http://pictures.dealer.com/r/rugessubarusoa/0139/bbcad2e20a0d028a00481958b18d19c6.jpg

 

[NutBucket]

Ooooo, that leather looks nice! I can do without the fake wood though.

 

[onza]

I dislike the fake wood look.

Either way - our options are limited but wanted to see if there were any other competitors but as discussed there are none really. Right now they have 0% APR on all 2014 Outbacks so we will go with that. I'm going to see if she will go for the 3.6R flavor with a 5-10k down, over 5yrs.. She can down right pay in full with what she has saved but ultimately that is not a smart move financially.

2 days! Can't wait to see what the new Outback is going to look like.

 

[fleshconsumed]

It's all new despite not having new drivetrains. Some quotes from the press release:

"The 2015 Legacy’s windshield is more raked, pulled forward 2.0 in. at the base."

"With nearly the same exterior footprint as the previous Legacy, the 2015 model offers a roomier passenger cabin, at 104.6 cu. ft. (up from 103 cu. ft.). The added space yields gains in shoulder, hip, elbow and leg room. Rear seat legroom measures a generous 38.1 inches. The Legacy’s trunk has been enlarged to 15.0 cu. ft., up slightly from 14.7 cu. ft. for the 2014 model..."

These types of changes don't happen for a mid-cycle refresh.

Once again, depends on what you consider all new.

Caution: the following is primarily about legacy, not the outback

Let's look at the last major Legacy (not Outback) redesign:
2008 -> 2009
Passenger Volume 97.4 cu ft -> 103 cu ft or 5.75% increase
Cargo Volume 11.4 cu ft -> 14.7 cu ft or 28.9% increase

Now compare that with the upcoming 2015 model:
2014 -> 2015
Passenger Volume 103 cu ft -> 104.6 cu ft or 1.55% increase
Cargo Volume 14.7 cu ft -> 15 cu ft or 2% increase

The 2008 to 2009 model change saw a huge increase in cargo space plus it got CVT upgrade. By comparison the 2015 Legacy is a refinement to the current model, it got different styling, a little bit more cargo space. The primary reason for 2015 upgrade is to keep things fresh, the <2% passenger and cargo space increase is largely symbolic, it's there to keep marketing guys happy. The looks are different, the headlights, the front grill, the wheels... But so what? Aside from cosmetic changes it's the same car.

I'm too lazy to look up Outback changes, but they were similar. The 2009 to 2010 Outback saw huge increase in cargo space, rear leg room (the 2009 model had problems fitting child seats in the back), and CVT upgrade. The 2015 Outback, yet to be revealed, but I bet it is going to be largely cosmetic changes as well. It's going to have different headlights, different side view mirrors, different front grill, and some symbolic interior space increase, but otherwise it's going to be the same car. Just different styling.

 

[NutBucket]

Clearly this discussion is pointless. We're not going to convince each other of anything.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Clearly this discussion is pointless. We're not going to convince each other of anything.

You're right.

Ooops...I just proved you wrong.

 

[Kelvrick]

Once again, depends on what you consider all new.

Caution: the following is primarily about legacy, not the outback

Let's look at the last major Legacy (not Outback) redesign:
2008 -> 2009
Passenger Volume 97.4 cu ft -> 103 cu ft or 5.75% increase
Cargo Volume 11.4 cu ft -> 14.7 cu ft or 28.9% increase

Now compare that with the upcoming 2015 model:
2014 -> 2015
Passenger Volume 103 cu ft -> 104.6 cu ft or 1.55% increase
Cargo Volume 14.7 cu ft -> 15 cu ft or 2% increase

The 2008 to 2009 model change saw a huge increase in cargo space plus it got CVT upgrade. By comparison the 2015 Legacy is a refinement to the current model, it got different styling, a little bit more cargo space. The primary reason for 2015 upgrade is to keep things fresh, the <2% passenger and cargo space increase is largely symbolic, it's there to keep marketing guys happy. The looks are different, the headlights, the front grill, the wheels... But so what? Aside from cosmetic changes it's the same car.

I'm too lazy to look up Outback changes, but they were similar. The 2009 to 2010 Outback saw huge increase in cargo space, rear leg room (the 2009 model had problems fitting child seats in the back), and CVT upgrade. The 2015 Outback, yet to be revealed, but I bet it is going to be largely cosmetic changes as well. It's going to have different headlights, different side view mirrors, different front grill, and some symbolic interior space increase, but otherwise it's going to be the same car. Just different styling.

So you're making all of these assumptions based on the fact that there are no hard numbers released for the 2015 legacy/outback yet? Perhaps you made a typo, but the 08->09 legacy had almost no changes. It was also the 09->10 legacy that went through similar changes as the 09->10 outback. The two cars share platforms and pretty much only differ in some trim/suspension differences.

I also think your 7-9 year life cycles is incorrect. They operate more on a 4-5 year cycle (lets talk USDM model years).

Legacy
4 years 1989-1993
4 years 1994-1998
5 years 1999-2004
4 years 2005-2009
4 years 2010-2014

Outback
4 years 1994-1998
5 years 1998-2003
5 years 2004-2009
Minor note of outback sport models that followed along the impreza platform

Impreza
4 years 1992-1996
4 years 1997-2001
5 years 2002-2007
4 years 2008-2012

Impreza WRX
3 years 2002-2005
4 years 2006/2008-2013 (change to 2.5 turbo in 2006, platform change in 2008)

Things get really complicated if you start talking about JDM and EDM model years. And if you want a drive train/engine change, then subaru has been running the ej25 and 5 speed manual/4 auto in different variations for way longer than their remodels. the 2.5na engine started in the mid 90's and you can still buy them today.

Anyway, back to my point. Based on their previous design change years, I expect a new revision for 2015, and not a mid-year refresh like the 07->08 legacy/outback.

 

[fleshconsumed]

So you're making all of these assumptions based on the fact that there are no hard numbers released for the 2015 legacy/outback yet? Perhaps you made a typo, but the 08->09 legacy had almost no changes. It was also the 09->10 legacy that went through similar changes as the 09->10 outback. The two cars share platforms and pretty much only differ in some trim/suspension differences.

Yeah, my memory failed me, the 2009 to 2010 was the year that both legacy and outback got substantial size/transmission upgrades. You're also right on the 5 year cycle.

And yes, the EJ25 is an old engine, and if history is any indication, yes, FB25/FB20 are here to stay for a long long time. But hopefully Subaru can continue tweaking it. It has tweaked its CVT transmissions. The Outback is on its second generation CVT transmission. So there is room for improvement.

However, back to the point, we know what 2015 legacy is going to look like because it's already been unveiled. There are a few 2015 outback teaser shots out there as well and they show very similar headlights/hood to 2015 legacy. So it makes sense to assume that 2015 outback looks are going to match 2015 legacy looks. We also know that 2015 legacy is the same size as 2014, so it also makes sense to assume that 2015 outback size is going to be the same size. I think this is where the argument arose from. Yes, it is going to be a somewhat significant exterior change, but otherwise it is the same car.

All in all, I'm looking forward to seeing what it actually looks like. So far I'm not really sold on 2015 legacy looks. But perhaps it's going to look better on Outback or in person.

 

[Kelvrick]

Yeah, my memory failed me, the 2009 to 2010 was the year that both legacy and outback got substantial size/transmission upgrades. You're also right on the 5 year cycle.

And yes, the EJ25 is an old engine, and if history is any indication, yes, FB25/FB20 are here to stay for a long long time. But hopefully Subaru can continue tweaking it. It has tweaked its CVT transmissions. The Outback is on its second generation CVT transmission. So there is room for improvement.

However, back to the point, we know what 2015 legacy is going to look like because it's already been unveiled. There are a few 2015 outback teaser shots out there as well and they show very similar headlights/hood to 2015 legacy. So it makes sense to assume that 2015 outback looks are going to match 2015 legacy looks. We also know that 2015 legacy is the same size as 2014, so it also makes sense to assume that 2015 outback size is going to be the same size. I think this is where the argument arose from. Yes, it is going to be a somewhat significant exterior change, but otherwise it is the same car.

All in all, I'm looking forward to seeing what it actually looks like. So far I'm not really sold on 2015 legacy looks. But perhaps it's going to look better on Outback or in person.

Oh wow, I don't know how I didn't realize the 2015 was already unveiled. Sorry about that. After a little googling, it seems that it didn't get much bigger than the current 2010-2014 generation, but, in my opinion, that was already a giant growth in size from the 2005-2009 models I'm a fan of. I didn't see any mention of turbo or wagons either. That makes me sad.

Anyway, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, the OP should just get an outback.

 

[Zorba]

on the topic of Subaru's

v4 2.0 vs 2.5 =How much of a difference is there? IE - if we were to drive up and down some mtns would it be annoying? or pretty marginal in difference.

I noticed a lot. The crosstek and impreza to me seem very underpowered and seemed like the engine rev'ed way up for every little thing. I went to a dealer planning on buying an Impreza about a year ago, took it on a test drive and left. I have done a couple test drives since, and it seemed like I had to floor it to do simple passing in traffic on the highway. Note: I have not tried the manual.

The Forester with the 2.5, however, seems to have plenty of power. Not that it'll pin you back in the seat or anything, but it accelerates at a respectable level, I never feel like I am going to get ran over merging onto the highway.

 

[onza]

So my options are either the subaru outback or the subaru outback.

Therefore it will be the outback. I just need to test drive the 2.5 and the 3.6R.
Keep you all posted.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Oh wow, I don't know how I didn't realize the 2015 was already unveiled. Sorry about that. After a little googling, it seems that it didn't get much bigger than the current 2010-2014 generation, but, in my opinion, that was already a giant growth in size from the 2005-2009 models I'm a fan of. I didn't see any mention of turbo or wagons either. That makes me sad.

Yeah, I still think that 2004-2009 outback generation looks the best, however 2010-2014 is not so bad either. I thought it was ugly at first but then it grew on me. The 2010-2014 definitely looks better in person. And it's also the perfect size. The 3rd gen was just too small for me - there was very little room in the back for long highway trips. Personally I don't care about wagons (I want ground clearance for when I go camping) and I'm not sure if I want extra maintenance costs associated with turbo, what does sadden me is ebrake substitution in place of a real handbrake and cheap interior in the latest ouback gen. I'm not sure if I'm just getting old, but I just want old style handbrake, none of that supid ebrake nonsense. It's also sad to see that 4th (and presumably 5th) gen outback traded soft touch plastic of the 3rd gen for hard plastic. No doubt a cost saving measure, but it looks and feels so cheap... :/

 

[fleshconsumed]

So my options are either the subaru outback or the subaru outback.

Therefore it will be the outback. I just need to test drive the 2.5 and the 3.6R.
Keep you all posted.

As I keep saying, the appeal of outback, at least to me, is that it combines 1) AWD 2) ground clearance, and 3) wagon like looks. I'm not trying to dissuade you from buying outback, but if you don't care about the looks I would highly suggest go drive indirect competitors like CRV/RAV4/Murano/Rogue/CX-5/other subaru CUVs. You may like them better.

 

[onza]

As I keep saying, the appeal of outback, at least to me, is that it combines 1) AWD 2) ground clearance, and 3) wagon like looks. I'm not trying to dissuade you from buying outback, but if you don't care about the looks I would highly suggest go drive indirect competitors like CRV/RAV4/Murano/Rogue/CX-5/other subaru CUVs. You may like them better.

Like mentioned before. We have a SUV in the family (Toyota Highlander), so it wouldn't make sense to purchase another SUV (while it may be a smaller version).

Long story short, We will try out the Forester 2.0 XT (250hp)

 

[onza]

http://www.subaru.com/content/downloads/pdf/2014NYIAS/NYIAS-Press-Release-4.17.14.pdf

Here it is..

 

[herm0016]

like mentioned before, the outback and forester are pretty solidly cuv's also. so looks like you are going to be a 2 xuv family. we are waiting to see if VW actually makes good on the 4 motion tdi 6sp manual jetta sport wagon.

 

[NutBucket]

http://www.subaru.com/content/downloads/pdf/2014NYIAS/NYIAS-Press-Release-4.17.14.pdf

Here it is..

Looks nice! Too bad no MT.

 

[onza]

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/17/2015-subaru-outback-official-photos-new-york/

Pix found here as well.

 

[senseamp]

Looks like a complete redesign, but very similar in look to the old model. Kind of strange if you ask me, but as an owner of a 2012, I guess it's good for me that they didn't make mine look too outdated
They did fix the terrible cup-holders though.

 

[PricklyPete]

Very evolutionary design changes, but clean and appropriate for the most part. For a standard jack of all trades, a good option. Just wish they would put a decent manual or 8spd auto in there instead of the CVT.

 

[NutBucket]

The Subie CVT isn't bad. I had a previous/current gen Legacy as a rental last year and was pleasantly surprised. Sure it wasn't fast but it wasn't horrible.

 

[Kaido]

Interesting, looks like the 3.6 gets a CVT with +2 MPG.

 

[MixMasterTang]

How does a CVT have paddle shifters?

All 2015 Outback models come standard with the Lineartronic® CVT (continuously variable
transmission), which features paddle-shift control switches