Over 400 Scientists Challenge Gore's Man-Made Global Warming Claims

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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Who cares why the Supreme Coup stepped in. It's what they did after they stepped in that matters. They did not demand a full and just recount of all the Florida vote which was the only way to determine who actually won the election, and we know that when the consortium of news papers did that count, Gore won. Because one person brings a bad case to court doesn't mean the court is then entitled to reach a bad decision. The Supreme Coup substituted their vote for the people of Florida, and elected the loser.
Sounds like a straw man to me... GoPack shows that your argument didn't hold water so now you want to change the basis of the discussion.

GoPack is 100% right, Al Gore loss because his lawyers and him screwed up by being overly political. If they had acted 'high minded' and asked for a total state recount he might have been able to win.

The Supreme Court didn't 'elect' anyone, they just stopped Gore and company from violating the rights of everyone in Florida who did not live in one of Gore's hand picked counties. After the court stepped in the state certified the vote count that it had at the time and Bush won.

Cleaning up the disinformation from PJ:

1. The reasons Al Gore lost are many, including the outrageous voter disenfranchisement by Jeb Bush that prevented tens of thousands of disproportionately black voters from voting, which prevented voters who had the legal right to vote, who had been felons from other states that restored voting rights and moved to Florida from voting, in violation of repeated court orders against Jeb Bush, the poorly designed 'butterfly ballots' in one county, and other issues - which PJ wrongly excludes in his statement.

It can be argued that Gore's team made legal mistakes as one of these many issues, but again, PJ gets it wrong. He claims it was Gore not being 'high minded' that was the cause of their not pursuing a statewide recount. In fact, while there was arguably a partisan benefit likely by going after selected counties, the issues are different than PJ said - for a start, Florida law had *no mechanism* for requesting a statewide recount. Their system was set up only for requesting recounts for counties.

With only so many lawyers and so much time, the lawyers made the requests as the law required county by county, and they did not think they had the resources to file in every county, nor that the time allowed for every country to get an appeal. The 'equal protection' argument requiring the recount be statewide was created later in the court battles.

The idea that you could not have recounts in certain counties where problems could be proven in court, without having a recount in all counties including those without any problems, was not at all clear early on. As for Gore being high minded (and PJ is silent on Bush, implying he was high minded), Gore did publicly ask Bush to agree to a statewide recount, in spite of the challenges and lack of a legal process - so much for PJ's high minded argument - and Bush refused to agree. So who wasn't 'high minded' to count votes?

The Florida Supreme Court had already addressed the 'cherry picking' issue by requiring that all counties in which there was evidence of a problem be recounted, not only the four picked by Gore - but it was still a partial recount. Note, however, that Bush was free to ask fo recounts in any 'cherry picked' counties he wanted too, as well, making the process fair - or even to agree to Gore's statewide recount request.

It's interesting the Supreme Court not only had 5 members pick the 'equal protection' argument to justify stopping the partial recount, but that they also, while saying a statewide recount was needed for fairness, did not allow a statewide recount to be done - a recount which we learned would have given the election to Gore. Note, too, that 4 of the 9 justices voted *against* the decision to stop the recount - it was hardly a unanimous view, but rather one with a one-vote margin.

Here's a summary of the later recount from the Washington Post, which showed Gore's limited recount would not have changed the election, but a statewide recount would have.

In all likelihood, George W. Bush still would have won Florida and the presidency last year if either of two limited recounts -- one requested by Al Gore, the other ordered by the Florida Supreme Court -- had been completed, according to a study commissioned by The Washington Post and other news organizations.

But if Gore had found a way to trigger a statewide recount of all disputed ballots, or if the courts had required it, the result likely would have been different. An examination of uncounted ballots throughout Florida found enough where voter intent was clear to give Gore the narrowest of margins.

The study showed that if the two limited recounts had not been short-circuited -- the first by Florida county and state election officials and the second by the U.S. Supreme Court -- Bush would have held his lead over Gore, with margins ranging from 225 to 493 votes, depending on the standard. But the study also found that whether dimples are counted or amore restrictive standard is used, a statewide tally favored Gore by 60 to 171 votes.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
Originally posted by: Pabster
Moonbeam, go troll somewhere else. This thread isn't about GWB or your hero Al Gore's defeat in 2000.

Let's keep it on topic.

Listen, clown, I addressed your imbecilic post right off showing you the stupidity of your 400 scientists shit. I didn't see you addressing my point, but then you have nothing to address it with. You and your post were both absurd.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,595
7,654
136
You know when global warming is more about politics than science? When it turns into a discussion of the 2000 election. That is where people?s hearts truly lie.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It's fascinating, psychologically speaking, to try to understand the reaction Gore causes among Republicans, what it is about him that causes them to react so bizarrely. Could it be guilt, the knowledge that they stole his victory in Florida by not allowing and pushing that all votes be counted and saddled us with the worst disaster in American history, or is it some sort of other deep form of denial, a reluctance to spend money to save their own asses, or a fear of facing the facts that all life on earth is in danger?

Whatever it is, it's obviously insane and completely irrational.

Republicans, of course, have mostly been played by corporations to think their own interests and corporate interests are the same, but to be played you need a mental weakness that can be exploited. It's interesting to try to uncover what it is.

Is it greed, the disinclination to pay for planetary health?

Is it a sociopathic disregard for the future of our children?

Is is the ostrich syndrome that sticking you head in the sand will make problems go away?

Is it deep self hate that incapacitates ones confidence there can be found real solutions out there?

Whatever it is, what's really killing the planet is human neurosis.

OK...

You like to REWRITE history. First off...if there is anyone to blame for ALGORE not winning florida, it was ALGORE and his lawyers.

Here is where he failed AGAIN FOR THE 100th time:

1. Not letting the Florida Vote be certified.
2. Cherry Picking which counties get recounted.

The Cherry Picking is why the USSC was able to step in.

Who cares why the Supreme Coup stepped in. It's what they did after they stepped in that matters. They did not demand a full and just recount of all the Florida vote which was the only way to determine who actually won the election, and we know that when the consortium of news papers did that count, Gore won. Because one person brings a bad case to court doesn't mean the court is then entitled to reach a bad decision. The Supreme Coup substituted their vote for the people of Florida, and elected the loser.

The Fla Supreme court made a bad decision by allowing the cherry picking of counties for a recount and not enforcing consistent guidance in the recount process.

The US stated that a recount must be done properly, not cherry picking.

They also stated that it was up to the State to determine if they would certify the re-count prior to the Electoral college vote.

You're making the same case again, that because the Florida court made a bad decision the Supreme Coup can make one too. It was Coup that made the final wrong decision and screwed the people of Florida out of the right to have their real vote determine the election. All your crap is nothing but rationalization. Florida voted for Gore and the SC voted for Bush. The 5 who voted for Bush should have their faces stamped on every urinal mint.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
My comments on the 2000 election have nothing to do with global warming or its politicization, and everything to do with correcting the misinformation from PJ and others.

You want to know where the politicization comes from? It's from Republicans who think the bigger the public support for doing something on global warming, the more credit the democrats will get - so, oppose the issue.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Listen, clown, I addressed your imbecilic post right off showing you the stupidity of your 400 scientists shit. I didn't see you addressing my point, but then you have nothing to address it with. You and your post were both absurd.

Listen, clown, we're talking 400+ prominent scientists here. Of which Gore is not.

Grow up.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
You want to know where the politicization comes from? It's from Republicans who think the bigger the public support for doing something on global warming, the more credit the democrats will get - so, oppose the issue.

No, Craig, it's coming from you and your ilk - the left-wing nutjobs who still refuse to accept the fact that George W. Bush won the 2000 election. You're still busy arguing over hanging chads.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Listen, clown, I addressed your imbecilic post right off showing you the stupidity of your 400 scientists shit. I didn't see you addressing my point, but then you have nothing to address it with. You and your post were both absurd.

Listen, clown, we're talking 400+ prominent scientists here. Of which Gore is not.

Grow up.

You calling anyone a clown is rich.

I've seen the head of the United States Academy of Sciences say that there is a more solid scientific consensus on global warming than on any major issue he's ever seen.

That's a consensus on Gore's side of the issue, not your 400 and yours.

Moonbeam said you failed to address his point; you fail to address to far larger number of scientists on Gore's side.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Craig234
You want to know where the politicization comes from? It's from Republicans who think the bigger the public support for doing something on global warming, the more credit the democrats will get - so, oppose the issue.

No, Craig, it's coming from you and your ilk - the left-wing nutjobs who still refuse to accept the fact that George W. Bush won the 2000 election. You're still busy arguing over hanging chads.

You're a right-wing nutjob from whom the term left-wing nutjob is a compliment.

I accept that Bush was made the president legally; and I know the facts regarding the election, how a majority of thousands of Floridians intended to vote for Gore over Bush, how a number of problems caused the man who had fewer voters to come out ahead, how the posts above mine favoring Bush misrepresented the history, how an injustice to democracy was done.

Whether the decision not to have a statewide recount was right or wrong for other reasons, it prevented the will of the people from being expresses - democracy lost that day.

I'm not arguing 'over hanging chads' but I expect you to misrepresent the issue you are clueless about. Why should this one be any different than most?

There are those who value democracy - I can be for Gore and for Bush winning if he got the most votes - and those who are too partisan to care much for democracy, i.e., you.

Your contempt for democracy comes out loud and clear in the fact you can't be bothered to learn the facts of the election, and how you care only for spin in your partisan favor.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
That's a consensus on Gore's side of the issue, not your 400 and yours.

No, there is not. There is absolutely not a "consensus" on man-made global warming. Nice try though!

Moonbeam said you failed to address his point; you fail to address to far larger number of scientists on Gore's side.

For every scientist who agrees with the-sky-is-falling Albert, I'll find you one who blasts him. Hardly a "consensus".
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
Your contempt for democracy comes out loud and clear in the fact you can't be bothered to learn the facts of the election, and how you care only for spin in your partisan favor.

I'll accept said criticism from a Communist any day of the week.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Listen, clown, I addressed your imbecilic post right off showing you the stupidity of your 400 scientists shit. I didn't see you addressing my point, but then you have nothing to address it with. You and your post were both absurd.

Listen, clown, we're talking 400+ prominent scientists here. Of which Gore is not.

Grow up.

You calling anyone a clown is rich.

I've seen the head of the United States Academy of Sciences say that there is a more solid scientific consensus on global warming than on any major issue he's ever seen.

That's a consensus on Gore's side of the issue, not your 400 and yours.

Moonbeam said you failed to address his point; you fail to address to far larger number of scientists on Gore's side.

He failed, also, to address the fact that Creationism got 700 votes way back in the dark ages of 1995, too. Creationism 75 % more scientifically supported by earth scientists than Global Warming is by the entire scientific community. In other words, a few kooks oppose global warming.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Craig234
Your contempt for democracy comes out loud and clear in the fact you can't be bothered to learn the facts of the election, and how you care only for spin in your partisan favor.

I'll accept said criticism from a Communist any day of the week.

And I'll accept that you are delusional every day of the week. As an anti-communist, I have to recognize who I'm reading, and encourage you to say more. It's great to have good 'enemies'.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Craig234
That's a consensus on Gore's side of the issue, not your 400 and yours.

No, there is not. There is absolutely not a "consensus" on man-made global warming. Nice try though!

You're disagreeing with the head of the National Academy of sciences, and the scientists who agree with him, not with me.

I've long said I have no direct opinion on the matter but to try to navigate the experts (unlike the 2000 election). Are you saying he's lying or an idiot?

Moonbeam said you failed to address his point; you fail to address to far larger number of scientists on Gore's side.

For every scientist who agrees with the-sky-is-falling Albert, I'll find you one who blasts him. Hardly a "consensus".[/quote]

Really, you now claim to have 50% or more of relevant global scientists saying there's not a serious threat from man-made global warming? Evidence?

I know there are polls showing large numbers saying it 'hasn't happened yet' or that the serious effects 'aren't imminent', but not that they disagree with Gore, in his claims that in a longer time frame the threat is real, and that the actions we take now are urgent for those later effects to be prevented.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
What kind of worthless retrograde American calls somebody a Communist as a put down, a filthy McCarthyite?
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
30
86
Originally posted by: Pabster

The only question now is how long will "carbon credits" be a booming business?

The only question iswhy anyone would believe anything published in a right wing fringeoid rag like the Washington Times. :roll:

The Washington Times is owned and operated by News World Communications, Inc., described by The Columbia Journalism Review as "the media arm of Reverend Sun Myung Moon?s Unification Church."

Getting old Pabster is getting pretty desperate, now that the vast majority of Americans are finally waking up to what turds your TRAITOR IN CHIEF and his criminal cabal are. It wasn't enough to MURDER thousands of Americans in thier war of LIES. They have to continue their assault on the environment, as wll.

The Bushwhackos and their brown nosed sycophants believe there should be no assault on humanity left behind. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
Old news. This is what the non-internet real world MMGW discussion looks like:

Scientists: MMGW is a concern, and we should start taking steps to do something about it.

Gore: If you don't buy my carbon credits today, you're all gonna die.

Pantless armchair armchair scientists on the internet: OMG!! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!! GORE IS THE SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS!
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,956
137
106
..shh. the carbon con is going well. it's the perfect grift. find a way to cash in on it and make a bundle. the eco-theists are all walking around with their wallets open.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,595
7,654
136
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
What kind of worthless retrograde American calls somebody a Communist as a put down, a filthy McCarthyite?

Someone who opposes what communist leaders did to their countries. Such as Stalin to Russia, or Castro to Cuba.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
30
86
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
What kind of worthless retrograde American calls somebody a Communist as a put down, a filthy McCarthyite?

Someone who opposes what communist leaders did to their countries. Such as Stalin to Russia, or Castro to Cuba.

So, are you joining Pabster calling Craig234 a "communist" or a Communist?

Either way, if that's what you're trying to say, you're just spewing meaningless bullshit name calling. Typical for someone with nothing to say and far less sense. :roll:
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,693
2,155
126
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
What kind of worthless retrograde American calls somebody a Communist as a put down, a filthy McCarthyite?

Someone who opposes what communist leaders did to their countries. Such as Stalin to Russia, or Castro to Cuba.

So, are you joining Pabster calling Craig234 a "communist" or a Communist?

Either way, if that's what you're trying to say, you're just spewing meaningless bullshit name calling. Typical for someone with nothing to say and far less sense. :roll:

LOL, the irony......
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Originally posted by: Slick5150
Yeah, you're right. We need more impartial scientific studies done by the Republican staff of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee. They are the true experts on this issue afterall.

so what exactly are your credentials to judge what is impartial verses actual truth?
Or are you just spouting off again?
 
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