Overclocking a workplace PC?

Comdrpopnfresh

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2006
1,202
2
81
Long background short, the preferred vendor (rhymes with 'Hell') came back with a horrible quote for a workstation upgrade, and my pitch for building one from scratch (delivered on a whim) became the default option.
I am a developer, and my current/outgoing desktop began feeling anemic: i7 6700, 16gb RAM, M2 SSD. For the same cost as the current machine I use, a new one with an i7 7700k/ 32gb RAM on an ASUS 270 CSM Board is now mine. I've never built my own PC this tweaking and OC capable. Management does not care what I do to it, as long as my work gets done and I don't ruin anything. Do you think I can at least get away with a bump in frequency, per-core increased turbo speed, and a mild undervolt?
 

.vodka

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2014
1,203
1,537
136
Well, the 7700k already provides you with a healthy clock speed increase over the 6700 in single and multi threaded turbos. For a quick boost you can set the 7700k to do 4.5GHz on all cores with the (probably) required voltage bump.

More than 4.5GHz is what I'd consider overclocking in this case. A stable overclock with a production PC is a must. Decent cooling is a must (A noctua NH-D14/15 or similar monsters or a decent AIO and lots of airflow). You can even delid and apply CLU as to make your way to 4.8-5GHz if you need the extra speed. You'd need to stress test for a long time and do a wide selection of those as to cover almost any usage scenario and to hit the CPU in different ways:

  • P95 AVX with error checking enabled (latest version)
  • P95 non AVX (26.6) with error checking enabled (as to make the most out of the AVX offset at your disposal)
  • linpack loops (LinX/IBT) with the whole 32GB of RAM (this is when it hits the CPU, memory controller and memory hard, those 1024MB loops are a waste of time)
  • OCCT
  • AIDA64's stress test
  • y-cruncher with the whole 32GB of RAM
  • of course whatever you do everyday as a developer that stresses the hardware.

Leave it stress testing overnight, leave it crunching away for a day or two, once you've put it through hell and it doesn't crash, you're ready to put it in production.

What speed is your RAM? Fast memory makes quite the difference and is a great way to increase performance in case you're running slow 2133/2400 stuff. Technically speaking the 7700k officially supports up to DDR4 2400 but it can do much better than that. All the stress testing above applies here too.
 
Reactions: Drazick

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,453
10,120
126
I think that this is a bad idea, and the wrong way to go about it.

The 7700K isn't that great of an upgrade over a 6700, in the first place.

Compiling is multi-threaded these days, as I understand it. (Was a dev in a former life. Oh, Visual Studio 1.5, what a treat!)

So, the best way to go about improving performance, would seem, to add cores, not overclock.

So, I propose waiting a short while for ThreadRipper. Or, if time is of the essence, go with Skylake-X today.

Not as cheap as the 7700K solution, and maybe it won't scratch the itch to OC, but that's a really Bad Idea for a work machine, that's actually, you know, doing Work.

Bonus with TR is the ability to go up to what, 128GB of RAM? (256GB?)
 
Reactions: Drazick

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,453
10,120
126
You know, Dell is going to soon, if not already, offer ThreadRipper in their AlienWare gaming rigs. Get one of those, upgrade the RAM qty, and rock and roll, IMHO.

Or maybe, they will offer "Workstation" builds with ThreadRipper too, soon if not already.
 
Reactions: IEC and Drazick

ao_ika_red

Golden Member
Aug 11, 2016
1,679
715
136
Unless you have any permission to screw around your cooling system, never think about it. Sustainable OC needs quality PSU and cooling system.
I think, if you have openCL / CUDA accelerated software, it's better to ask more powerful GPU to get the job quickly done.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
5,134
136
Wait for Coffee Lake. Intel are going to 6 core CPUs on the mainstream line, giving you 50% better performance at compilation.

Never, ever do work on an overclocked machine. Silent data corruption is a real thing.
 
Reactions: Phynaz

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
Never. Ever. Overclock. A. Work. Machine.

This. Also, NEVER build a machine for work that will be used for production purposes in any way, shape, or form. It is just a terrible idea on so many levels. Always buy from a vendor who has great service, warranty, etc.

Anyway, I have no idea why you'd jump from a 6700 to a 7700. The performance delta between them is virtually non-existent, even with the 7700's increased clock headroom. You would've been better off going with a BDW-E, SKL-X, or Xeon machine.
 

Rayniac

Member
Oct 23, 2016
78
13
41
I think that this is a bad idea, and the wrong way to go about it.

The 7700K isn't that great of an upgrade over a 6700, in the first place.

Compiling is multi-threaded these days, as I understand it. (Was a dev in a former life. Oh, Visual Studio 1.5, what a treat!)

So, the best way to go about improving performance, would seem, to add cores, not overclock.

So, I propose waiting a short while for ThreadRipper. Or, if time is of the essence, go with Skylake-X today.

Not as cheap as the 7700K solution, and maybe it won't scratch the itch to OC, but that's a really Bad Idea for a work machine, that's actually, you know, doing Work.

Bonus with TR is the ability to go up to what, 128GB of RAM? (256GB?)
Isn't Skylake-X for the x299 platform? I heard it's gonna suck.

And why not Ryzen?
 

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
5,694
8,274
136
NEVER build a machine for work that will be used for production purposes in any way, shape, or form. It is just a terrible idea on so many levels. Always buy from a vendor who has great service, warranty, etc.
I disagree with this statement in its absolute terms. This question just boils down to what services to perform in house versus externally. There are many answers to that question.

Besides, "used for production" means everything and nothing. For example,...
Anyway, I have no idea why you'd jump from a 6700 to a 7700. The performance delta between them is virtually non-existent, even with the 7700's increased clock headroom. You would've been better off going with a BDW-E, SKL-X, or Xeon machine.
...what kind of "production" can be run on BDW-E and SKL-X, both of which have ECC disabled?
 
Reactions: Comdrpopnfresh

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
5,694
8,274
136
Never. Ever. Overclock. A. Work. Machine.
Why not? Clocks can be limited by power delivery, cooling capacity, and reliability. On multicore CPUs subjected to multicore workload, there is a very well known overclocking headroom within reliability limits, if power delivery and cooling capacity are provided accordingly.
 

scannall

Golden Member
Jan 1, 2012
1,948
1,640
136
Why not? Clocks can be limited by power delivery, cooling capacity, and reliability. On multicore CPUs subjected to multicore workload, there is a very well known overclocking headroom within reliability limits, if power delivery and cooling capacity are provided accordingly.
For a production machine, reliability is everything. By overclocking you are introducing another possible point of critical failure. Further, in a large shop if your machine fails I will unplug your current machine, and take one off the spares rack to replace it. The dead machine will then be fixed, and deadlines will be met. You don't own the equipment, unless you work for yourself. And if your tinkering causes deadline problems, then you get to experience the unemployment line.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
I disagree with this statement in its absolute terms. This question just boils down to what services to perform in house versus externally. There are many answers to that question.

Besides, "used for production" means everything and nothing. For example,...

...what kind of "production" can be run on BDW-E and SKL-X, both of which have ECC disabled?

Please reread EXACTLY what he wrote. He is a *developer* and is running 6700/7700 on his workstation, neither of which support ECC either. ECC is not important for his particular role.

Also, regarding your response to my initial point about not building machines for use at work - you can disagree, but you're wrong. NO reputable company with any sort of sense is going to say "Hey Joe, here is a corporate card - go knock yourself out at Newegg.". That is an exceptionally poorly run IT department that allows this and I've worked in companies ranging from Fortune 10 to smaller orgs.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
Why not? Clocks can be limited by power delivery, cooling capacity, and reliability. On multicore CPUs subjected to multicore workload, there is a very well known overclocking headroom within reliability limits, if power delivery and cooling capacity are provided accordingly.

Again, real companies don't work like this and allow this to happen. No offense, but you've very obviously not worked in a large company developing policies and infrastructures.

The people who try stuff like that in real companies are self-proclaimed "experts" who, at the first sign of issues, run crying to IT to fix their problem. If you did that in my org, I'd fire you.
 

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
5,694
8,274
136
For a production machine, reliability is everything.
Again, what is "production"? In addition: What is reliability? Asking rhetorically.

There is a wide range of how critical or risky the work is which is being performed on a particular machine. Therefore there is a wide range of what degree of reliability is required, or/ and can be achieved at reasonable cost.

By overclocking you are introducing another possible point of critical failure.
I stand by my point that overclocking does not necessarily sacrifice reliability. I mentioned multicore clocks as a reason for the existence of well-known reliability margins.

Another source of such margins is that while the CPU vendor needs to ensure reliability and longevity of an entire production run of CPUs, a PC owner inclined to overclock merely needs to aim for reliability and longevity of one particular CPU in a restricted scenario of workloads and environmental conditions. The reliability margin from this source however is ill-defined. It can be determined only with extensive testing but limited certainty.

BTW, while the CPU vendor can and does perform much more extensive testing (on the production run, and prior to the production run, including simulations), the outcome of it all still results in limited certainty. Overclocking does not introduce a new mode of failure, it reduces margin of safety against a mode of failure which already exists. (While respective cooling and power delivery can increase that same margin.)

Further, in a large shop if your machine fails I will unplug your current machine, and take one off the spares rack to replace it. The dead machine will then be fixed, and deadlines will be met.
I agree that the primary way to achieve hardware availability is hardware redundancy. (For desktop PCs: spare machines which can be swapped in on shortest notice.)

You don't own the equipment, unless you work for yourself. And if your tinkering causes deadline problems, then you get to experience the unemployment line.
There are many examples how tinkering can, and routinely does, cause deadline problems. E.g. rolling out a poorly tested software update whose bugs cause downtime. These things cannot be prevented entirely; rather it is largely a cost-benefit consideration how far a company's processes can go to combat such risks.

Please reread EXACTLY what he wrote. He is a *developer* and is running 6700/7700 on his workstation, neither of which support ECC either. ECC is not important for his particular role.
What is a "developer"? What do you know about the workloads that he is running?

So he is performing work which prohibits overclocking, but at the same time supposedly does not benefit from ECC RAM.

Yet ECC RAM in desktop computers isn't unnecessary, it is merely priced too high to be attractive for wider adoption (considering total system costs, not just RAM costs). If you are ready to give up ECC RAM for cost reasons, you may as well be ready to give up more+slower cores in favor of fewer+faster cores, likewise for cost reasons.

In extension, maybe operate those cores at higher than factory-defined clocks for even higher productivity at same hardware costs.

Also, regarding your response to my initial point about not building machines for use at work - you can disagree, but you're wrong. NO reputable company with any sort of sense is going to say "Hey Joe, here is a corporate card - go knock yourself out at Newegg.". That is an exceptionally poorly run IT department that allows this and I've worked in companies ranging from Fortune 10 to smaller orgs.
There are many kinds of "production", and there are many kinds of businesses and corporations. Certain large corporations with datacenters as the very heart of their business develop, build, and maintain their servers in-house, and for very good reasons. At the other end of the spectrum, small businesses with particular needs may benefit from in-house configuration and perhaps even in-house assembly too. In either case it requires sufficient in-house knowledge and experience of course.

Are you claiming that corporations can't have that in-house capability?

[Overclocking at the workplace:]
Again, real companies don't work like this and allow this to happen.
Again, there are many kinds of "production", and there are many kinds of workplaces, businesses, and corporations.

Also, different but not unrelated: There are cloud providers who use desktop harddrives far outside of vendor specifications in huge storage racks. They can do so because they plan and compensate for the increased failure rate.
 
Last edited:

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
5,694
8,274
136
Never touch anything for work.
I'd say, never touch what you are not allowed to touch.
  • Don't change BIOS settings if you are not allowed to.
  • Don't plug in USB sticks if you are not allowed to.
  • Don't install software updates if you are not allowed to.
And so on.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
I'm software developer, Visual Studio unmanaged C++ and a bit of PHP. I would never overclock a work PC because the CPU is only tested to work properly at stock speed. A 99% stable overclock seems OK until it corrupts a character in your source code or worse a byte in a release build EXE.

Many years ago intel briefly sold a catch-up factory overclocked Pentium to compete with the Athlon 1 GHz. It worked for most tasks but TomsHardware found it failed compiling the Linux kernel. 99% stable is not something to use on a work PC.

I'd hate to explain to my boss that my overclocked PC created a bad patch that just went out to 2+ million end users.
 
Reactions: Omar F1 and Phynaz

Reinvented

Senior member
Oct 5, 2005
489
77
91
Echoing what everyone else has said here. Stability is far superior to speed. High stock clocks are fine, but overclocking is a no-no. You never know what might get corrupted.
 
Reactions: Phynaz

RichUK

Lifer
Feb 14, 2005
10,334
677
126
I'm software developer, Visual Studio unmanaged C++ and a bit of PHP. I would never overclock a work PC because the CPU is only tested to work properly at stock speed. A 99% stable overclock seems OK until it corrupts a character in your source code or worse a byte in a release build EXE.

Many years ago intel briefly sold a catch-up factory overclocked Pentium to compete with the Athlon 1 GHz. It worked for most tasks but TomsHardware found it failed compiling the Linux kernel. 99% stable is not something to use on a work PC.

I'd hate to explain to my boss that my overclocked PC created a bad patch that just went out to 2+ million end users.

That's why you perform testing and piloting before mass deployment.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
That's why you perform testing and piloting before mass deployment.

We do have QA before release, but this particular application's UI can't be automated so there's a limit to the amount of regression testing we can fit in. Piloting of monthly updates doesn't make sense for our customer base.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,362
5,033
136
You must work for a small shop... none of the large firms I previously worked for, including Fortune <insert list and #> companies, permitted custom PC builds. Hardware costs paled in comparison to software costs, even with volume licensing.

Security was also taken extremely seriously.
 
Reactions: Drazick
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |