Overclocking A64 3000+

[Arkan15]

First time posting here, so I apologize if this question has already been answered/if I get something wrong.

I think I'm gonna build a new A64 gaming rig:
- MSI K8T Neo2-F motherboard (K8T800Pro + VT8237)
- Antec 350w power supply (+3.3V: 28A, +5V: 35A, +12V: 21A) that comes with the Quiet Solution case. The case has 1x120mm and 2x80mm fans for cooling (I'm not planning on modding the case either).
-eVGA Geforce 6600GT AGP

The problem is I can't choose whether to buy:
Athlon 64 3000+ and Zalman copper heatsink
Heatsink: http://www.newegg.com/app/view...amp;manufactory=BROWSE
...and overclock it to 2.0 (same as 3200+)
or just buy the retail 3200+ with stock cooling.

I know that the A64 doesn't overclock as well as the Athlon XP, but if I can get the performance of a 3200+ with just a 3000+ and a good heatsink that will serve me well in the future...hey, that's pretty good. But I've also heard that the A64 tends to burn-out a lot faster under stress than even the Pentium 4 Prescott. The retail 3200+ is more expensive and has a basic heatsink, but it's more stable than an overclock.

1. Buy choice 1 and overclock? Or buy choice 2 and not overclock?
2. I'm leaning towards the overclock option because I want to use the heatsink when I upgrade in the future. If I were to overclock, should I get a different motherboard/heatsink?
3. With the overclock, it would be cheaper than the Intel rig I was going to build (Prescott 2.8, PCI-Express). Should I just go with that gaming rig instead?

 

[CheesePoofs]

1) choice 1. Many athlon 64 3000 and 3200's are hitting in the 2.4-2.6 range when overclocked, these new 90nm ones overclock very well.

2) that heatsink is good, but you'll be able to get it for a lot cheaper somewhere else, such as Here.
The MSI K8N Neo 2 is the best overclocking motherboard of the socket 939 non-pcie motherboards, so you might want to consider getting that.

3) it might be slightly more expensive (but im not sure about this) but you will get much better performance than with a P4. If you can manage to overclock to 2.4, your processor will be faster in gaming than almost every P4 there is. ANd it will be much less than a P4 system of equivalent performance.

 

[CheesePoofs]

Oops, didn't meant to hit post again. Brilliant me

 

[billyjak]

Antec Power supplies have known problems with A64 processors on some motherboards.
I would get at least a 450w of a different brand name. Like Enermax, PC Power or the newer Antecs.

 

[ts3433]

I'd recommend against the MSI K8T Neo2, but the K8N Neo2 Platinum is great. Also consider the Epox EP-9NDA3+. Either choice is fine, especially since the stock A64 heatsinks do quite well for overclocking (2.4 is very typical for stock cooling and often stock voltage, and I've seen 2.7 or 2.8 done with the stock heatsink as well). All of the Winchesters should top out at 2.6 to 2.7 on air cooling. However, I would opt for the AlCu version of the Zalman instead of the pure copper, because the latter weighs a ton and will put physical stress on your motherboard. You give up maybe 1 or 2 degrees Celsius.

I also think the PSU is worth some reconsideration even for stock speeds. I know MSI recommends at least 20A on the 12V rail for their boards, and IIRC that 12V amperage for the SL350 is an absolute maximum, which probably can't be delivered with loads on the other rails. Try a nice Antec, Seasonic (Seasonic is an actual component manufacturer, not a marketer like Antec, PCP&C, OCZ, or--I think--Enermax), Enermax, or Fortron (also an actual manufacturer) with the amperages you need.

 

[Arkan15]

I think I'm just gonna dump the overclocking idea. Neither I nor my friend (who I'm am building the computer with) has experience with overclocking. Plus, my parents would get very very mad if I ever screwed up, since it's gonna be built completely from scratch, which means expensive.

Still would like to know more details about the "power supply problems" though. Is the power not enough even if I don't overclock, or is there something else? Sorry if I'm sounding really noobish, because I really don't know and cuz I'm on a tight budget.
Is the Gigabyte nForce 3 Ultra motherboard (cheapest one on ZipZoomFly) any good/better? It seems to offer similar performance...

 

[CheesePoofs]

I've never heard about the problem with antec PS's and AMD's. I'm running an antec with my athlon xp and my friend is running one with his athlon 64. Both run great. On whatever power supply you get, make sure there is more than 20amps on the 12v rail, although i'd want 24 or more amps myself, so it would be more future proof.

I'd try to avoid a gigabyte nforce3 board, they are suppossed to have memory troubles.

 

[ts3433]

I wouldn't dump the OCing idea. You will not fry anything unless you do something really stupid (as in something that defies common sense), and newer processors like the A64 have an integrated heatspreader for a reason (so they don't go up in smoke like old Athlons could). Just be patient, read guides around here, and seek our advice and all will be well. The fact that your parents would get mad if you screwed up should be more incentive to not do stupid things. (I was sort of in the same situation, just recently building my first computer at 13 and overclocking it from the get-go. That said, I'm using an $80 mobile XP, which would be easier to replace, but the same idea applies.)

 

[Arkan15]

I've never heard about the problem with antec PS's and AMD's.

Actually, looking around Google, I was redirected back to these very forums and came across the topic about problems with Antec and A64 motherboards. It seems to have something to do with the +5V rail, though not all people with the specified motherboards had the problem.

Yes, future-proofing my PS is somewhat important, but for right now, I'm on a really tight budget. Would a crappy case/good PS solution be good, or just worse in the long run? Would my original Pentium LGA775 + PCI-Express configuration require an even larger power supply?
My next choice (if the Antec really is glitchy and 20A isn't enough) would be the Enermax Whisper II 470W.
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=17-103-456&depa=0

Does it matter if I get a cheap case (<$30), a moderate case (<$50), or expensive case (>$50)? Does flimsiness vs sturdiness really make a big difference?

By the way, what exactly does dual +12V lines mean in terms of hardware (wiring, how to hook it up, etc.)?

 

[CheesePoofs]

Getting a bad power supply could be very bad in the long run, they often have very low amps on the 12v rail and are much more prone to dying and taking the entire system with them than a quality power supply is.

The pentium system would require a bigger power supply, pentium 4's use much more power than athlon 64's do.

I would not recomend going with a cheap case, they can often have sharp edges and are not built to atx specs, so you might have a very hard time installing your components. Try and get one that is made by a company who's name you can get with, and i'd recomend spending $40 or more on the case.

As far as i know, dual 12v rails does not require anything to be done on the part of the end user, it is refering to how the wiring is set up inside the power supply.

As ts3433 said, i would not give up on the idea of overclocking. Athlon 64's have thermal protection, so they will not overheat and go up in smoke, and as long as you don't up the voltage to an insane level you won't do any real damage to the chip.

 

[seethoe]

Actually i'm in the same dilema, should i get the Athlon64 3000+ or the Athlon64 3200+ on the MSI K8N Neo2 mobo? I've generally asked this in another forum but i would like more opinion too. So far most ppl say both 3000+ and 3200+ is the same processor and no difference since both will overclock to the same level. really need opinion here....

 

[ts3433]

All three Winchesters are indeed the same chip and generally top out at the same total clockspeeds. Some buy the 3200+ because of the higher multiplier and therefore the lower HTT speed needed to get to this top-out range of 2.6-2.7GHz, or for the extra 200MHz in the rare event (with Winchesters, at least) that the CPU doesn't overclock at all. In addition to the MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum, consider the Epox EP-9NDA3+, which has done 300FSB with a 3000+ Winchester and is a bit cheaper.