Question Overheating & Unavailable Programs

[drumone]

Last December (2021) I built my first computer system (see specs below). All has been running fine until about the last month or so. PROBLEM #1 - I started having problems with random programs no longer functioning/being allowed on Windows. I kept getting the error message "This app can't run on your PC". I would download the software again and re-install it and it would work fine. I would shut down the system and reboot the following day to find a program or two not working again. This has happened with Adobe Acrobat Reader, Avira anti-virus, Avid's Sibelius, Revo Uninstaller, Mozilla Thunderbird Mail, and Microsoft Office 2016. I can't get Office to be recognized with my account and I'm going to contact Microsoft and ask what to do. However, that doesn't fix the problem with the other software. Sometimes it will reload and be okay, other times it quits working on reboot. I can't get Thunderbird or Acrobat Reader to stay loaded and working no matter what I try. I've also tried installing it as an administrator to no avail. I'm ready to wipe the hard drive and re-install windows from scratch, but that is a lot of work I'd rather avoid, if possible. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to solve this issue??

PROBLEM #2 - My system is overheating to the point of shutting down. It started with the last few cumulative updates on Windows. I got the error message about overheating when I rebooted and had to go into the BIOS to get the system to boot again. It has done that twice. It happened again when I was working on clearing out an external back-up drive. The last time it happened I was copying my music library to my back-up drive (the one I cleared out). This overheating issue has only happened on the Windows side of my machine, never on Ubuntu. I installed the temperature sensor programs for Linux and have been watching it today to see what it does. For the most part, things stay within range. However, I have noticed that things occasionally spike high while doing minor things on the system, e.g. opening a program. On Windows it runs fairly hot consistently. I double checked the thermal compound on the processor and found that it wasn't the best job. I cleaned off the old compound and reapplied it using suggestions I read on the ROG forum. I opened up the third and final panel on the top of the tower. I opened up the side port on the tower. The entire bottom of the case is vented and has a removable screen that I checked and cleaned. The two front fans were not clogged but I cleaned the screen anyway. I also cleared out the dust in the case with a vacuum and compressed air can. Originally, I ran the two front fans as intake and the rear fan as an exhaust. I had the CPU cooler fans running as exhaust to push hot air out. Yesterday I took out the radiator and cleaned it and reversed the direction of the fans to pull cool outside air into the radiator. The system still seems to be running hot. I'm scared to death the run the Windows OS because I can't afford another computer (and if I can't work on my degree and get done with school I'm in trouble with my wife!) I built this system with the intention of eventually running music notation and production software. Up to this point, I haven't really done that or anything else that should be particularly taxing, I didn't think. Is there anything I should be doing in the BIOS settings for the fans to properly cool things down? Is there something I can do in the Armoury Crate software settings? Do I need a different CPU cooler? Am I screwed? I will greatly appreciate any insight into this issue. Thank you!!!

SPECS:

Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero AMD X570 ATX motherboard
AMD Ryzen 9 5950x processor
Fractal Lumen S24 CPU liquid cooler
Asus Dual-RX6600 GPU
G.Skil RipJaws V 64GB RAM
Samsung 980 Pro SSD – 1TB NVMe – 2 (Ubuntu OS on one, Windows OS on the other)
Corsair RM850x power supply
Fractal Define R5 ATX Midtower case
Fractal Dynamic X2 GP-14 140mm case fans – 2 in the front,1 slightly smaller fan in the rear

 

[Tech Junky]

Disappearing programs is odd and probably not heat related.

Thermals come from a variety of sensors though. CPU ram etc can all generate heat. PSU even under extreme load. The GPU can be a huge heat soak as well if you don't have a water block on it. Doesn't sound like your activating the GPU though from the programs you listed.

NVME drives generate a ton of heat when your copying tons of data and can cause issues if not kept in check.

Windows generating more heat than Linux isn't much of a surprise though. I run Ubuntu on my server a d it pretty much stays at room temp. Windows on my laptop stays a bit warmer though as there's a GPU there online the server.

Get some more detailed thermal info from hwinfo in Windows to pinpoint what devices are causing the heat issue to diagnose further.

 

[In2Photos]

I've had AV programs mess with the ability to run certain software, but it's not usually mainstream software like Adobe and MS products. Have you run something like Malwarebytes to check for malware? What does the SMART data say about your NVME drive for your Windows OS?

Where is the radiator installed in the case? The top? Can you tell if the pump is running and moving fluid?

 

[drumone]

Disappearing programs is odd and probably not heat related.

Thermals come from a variety of sensors though. CPU ram etc can all generate heat. PSU even under extreme load. The GPU can be a huge heat soak as well if you don't have a water block on it. Doesn't sound like your activating the GPU though from the programs you listed.

NVME drives generate a ton of heat when your copying tons of data and can cause issues if not kept in check.

Windows generating more heat than Linux isn't much of a surprise though. I run Ubuntu on my server a d it pretty much stays at room temp. Windows on my laptop stays a bit warmer though as there's a GPU there online the server.

Get some more detailed thermal info from hwinfo in Windows to pinpoint what devices are causing the heat issue to diagnose further.

I don't do anything that is GPU heavy by any stretch. I downloaded and installed HWInfo. However, I'm not exactly sure what to do with the info it provides. I ran an "in-place upgrade" with Windows and got the over temperature warning from the BIOS again. Plus, it didn't solve my problem. In fact, it stopped even more programs from functioning. What do I need to look at in HWInfo for further troubleshooting?

 

[drumone]

I've had AV programs mess with the ability to run certain software, but it's not usually mainstream software like Adobe and MS products. Have you run something like Malwarebytes to check for malware? What does the SMART data say about your NVME drive for your Windows OS?

Where is the radiator installed in the case? The top? Can you tell if the pump is running and moving fluid?

I ran Malwarebytes and it didn't find anything, neither did Avira. I'm not sure what SMART data you are referring to. Could you explain further?

The radiator is in the top of the tower. I'm honestly not sure if fluid is moving. Is there a way to check and test that? After checking the BIOS closely today, I discovered that one of the settings for the AIO pump was disabled. I set it to auto and it seems to have helped, but it still overheated today when I ran the "in-place upgrade" on Windows.

 

[Tech Junky]

In hwinfo use sensors to read the temps. If the BIOS is reporting CPU as the issue then that's year your focus. Check the cooler and make sure it's clamped down tight. I had an instance whee I was working on mine and forgot to double check it and it caused come temp issues but not quite as bad as you mentioned. If it's tight then make sure the fans are working properly and oriented correctly. If everything checks out it could be the paste is crap and needs to be replaced with something different like a graphite pad or different paste brand. I had one paste I tried that lasted about 4 days and then shit temps to 100C.

 

[In2Photos]

I ran Malwarebytes and it didn't find anything, neither did Avira. I'm not sure what SMART data you are referring to. Could you explain further?

SMART is data about your hard drive. It can help you determine if you have a drive failing. See here for more info about it and how to get the data and figure out what it means: https://www.digitalcitizen.life/simple-questions-what-smart-what-does-it-do/

The radiator is in the top of the tower. I'm honestly not sure if fluid is moving. Is there a way to check and test that? After checking the BIOS closely today, I discovered that one of the settings for the AIO pump was disabled. I set it to auto and it seems to have helped, but it still overheated today when I ran the "in-place upgrade" on Windows.

Depending on the pump you may be able to hear it. You also may hear bubbles in the loop when you first turn it on if your fans are quiet enough (you could turn off your fans for a moment to check). You might also be able to feel movement in the tubes. If your pump isn't moving any fluid it would be very easy to overheat your processor so it is vital that the pump is running and moving fluid. Using HWinfo, you should be able to read the speed of your pump too. What header do you have your pump plugged into on the motherboard? There should be line item in HWInfo that displays the pump speed in RPM like a fan.

 

[drumone]

In hwinfo use sensors to read the temps. If the BIOS is reporting CPU as the issue then that's year your focus. Check the cooler and make sure it's clamped down tight. I had an instance whee I was working on mine and forgot to double check it and it caused come temp issues but not quite as bad as you mentioned. If it's tight then make sure the fans are working properly and oriented correctly. If everything checks out it could be the paste is crap and needs to be replaced with something different like a graphite pad or different paste brand. I had one paste I tried that lasted about 4 days and then shit temps to 100C.

I have now changed the fans back to pushing air out through the radiator instead of drawing it in from the outside. We'll see what happens. I'm using Corsair TM30 paste. Again, it's been fine for 8 months roughly without issues. As for sensor temps, I have a few questions. I'm looking at the data from Psensor in Ubuntu. I have 3 sensors that I think are related to the CPU: Tctl, Tccd1, and Tccd2. Which of those do I focus on? I'm going to switch to Windows later and look at HWInfo to see the names of the sensors there and will post back the ones I have questions about.

 

[Tech Junky]

Just open a terminal and run sensors instead and it gives you the CPU and other temps.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Depending on the pump you may be able to hear it. You also may hear bubbles in the loop when you first turn it on if your fans are quiet enough (you could turn off your fans for a moment to check). You might also be able to feel movement in the tubes. If your pump isn't moving any fluid it would be very easy to overheat your processor so it is vital that the pump is running and moving fluid. Using HWinfo, you should be able to read the speed of your pump too. What header do you have your pump plugged into on the motherboard? There should be line item in HWInfo that displays the pump speed in RPM like a fan.

On my old "main PC" that was upgraded last year with a 5900X, it now overheats, throttles, and crashes. I suspect that the CM 240mm AIO is no longer moving liquid.

I suggest installing an air cooler. The DeepCool AK400 is what I went with, when I built an updated newer 5900X rig.

 

[drumone]

SMART is data about your hard drive. It can help you determine if you have a drive failing. See here for more info about it and how to get the data and figure out what it means: https://www.digitalcitizen.life/simple-questions-what-smart-what-does-it-do/

Depending on the pump you may be able to hear it. You also may hear bubbles in the loop when you first turn it on if your fans are quiet enough (you could turn off your fans for a moment to check). You might also be able to feel movement in the tubes. If your pump isn't moving any fluid it would be very easy to overheat your processor so it is vital that the pump is running and moving fluid. Using HWinfo, you should be able to read the speed of your pump too. What header do you have your pump plugged into on the motherboard? There should be line item in HWInfo that displays the pump speed in RPM like a fan.

I had to reload Samsung Magician and then I saw the SMART data you were referring to. Both drives report as being fine. My pump is plugged into the AIO pump header on the motherboard. The rpm shows around 4000+. I assume it's working. Short of unplugging the fans, how do I stop them temporarily to check the pump?

 

[drumone]

I'm pretty sure the AIO pump is working. I can hear a high pitched whine when I put my ear directly on the water line. Also, one line going into the pump is hot and the other feels kinda cool. I cleaned out the radiator again today. Temps seem to be okay so far. I'm downloading one of the big cumulative updates right now. I'll see how it goes with the download and installation this time.

As for temp sensors in HWInfo, which ones do I focus on? Core temperatures plus what? Do I worry about CPU (Tctl/Tdie), CPU Die (average), CPU CCD1 (Tdie), and CPU CCD2 (Tdie)? The first 3 "CPU" sensors show high temps somewhat frequently, but they spike and go down and then back up randomly. I'm contemplating putting in an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 as a replacement for my Fractal Lumen S24. Thoughts on that anyone?

 

[In2Photos]

Sounds like the AIO is working. Does hwinfo show you the individual core temps? Or at least the CPU package temp? There should be a column for min, max, and average. Take a screenshot and share your findings after doing some work.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I suggest installing an air cooler. The DeepCool AK400 is what I went with, when I built an updated newer 5900X rig.

Thanks to GN giving it a great review, the price has went up 25% since then.

 

[drumone]

Sounds like the AIO is working. Does hwinfo show you the individual core temps? Or at least the CPU package temp? There should be a column for min, max, and average. Take a screenshot and share your findings after doing some work.

Hopefully I have expanded enough of the folders in HWInfo. Can someone tell me what I should be looking for specifically or what to focus on? Thanks!

 

[Tech Junky]

These are the areas I would be looking at.



Nothing from this snapshot though looks all that concerning. Spikes to the thresholds are normal depending on the state of the system.

Looking at this though doesn't explain the missing programs or inability to run them. Windows does odd things though so it's not completely out of the realm of possibilities. Personally I stop / disable / delete most of the MSFT crap meant to protect n00b users from getting infected. Defender / security are a PITA to deal with at times and out of annoyance I just rip them out of a system completely and reg hack them into submission. It kind of sounds like this might be a potential cause of things acting weird though it shouldn't be with legit programs you've listed.

Next step would be looking into the system logs to see if there's anything buried in them that might explain what's going on or at least hint at what process is causing the issues. I had an issue with an older laptop that would spontaneously reboot out of nowhere and logged kernel power as the error. I fought with this for about a month on/off as it would occur randomly. I even swapped the power brick as a test and that didn't resolve it. After really digging into the issue it turned out to be a driver update that was causing the issue since part of the testing was to boot to Linux for a couple of days to test for stability and it was rock solid.

 

[In2Photos]

Nothing from Hwinfo looks all that concerning as Tech Junky showed. Perhaps some of the work you did on the cooler fixed your issue already? One thing you could look into is undervolting the CPU once you feel everything is stable. Temps could drop quite a bit depending on what level you are able to achieve.

 

[igor_kavinski]

got the over temperature warning from the BIOS again.

Pic if you don't mind?

 

[drumone]

Thanks Tech Junky for showing me what to look at closely. With my limited knowledge and experience, most of what you mentioned is outside of my capabilities.

In2Photos - I don't think my problem is solved yet. I did an update for something yesterday (Not Windows update related) and when I rebooted I got the BIOS message that the CPU was over temperature.

igor_kavinski - I can't do a screenshot because when I reboot I get kicked into BIOS and receive a message that the CPU is over temperature and to press F1 to enter set-up, or something to that effect.

I'm at the point that I think I'm going to wipe the hard drive and start over. Doing an in-place upgrade didn't solve anything either. I'm pretty convinced that the software problems and overheating are connected, due to the fact that the issues started at the same time.

 

[In2Photos]

Thanks Tech Junky for showing me what to look at closely. With my limited knowledge and experience, most of what you mentioned is outside of my capabilities.

In2Photos - I don't think my problem is solved yet. I did an update for something yesterday (Not Windows update related) and when I rebooted I got the BIOS message that the CPU was over temperature.

igor_kavinski - I can't do a screenshot because when I reboot I get kicked into BIOS and receive a message that the CPU is over temperature and to press F1 to enter set-up, or something to that effect.

I'm at the point that I think I'm going to wipe the hard drive and start over. Doing an in-place upgrade didn't solve anything either. I'm pretty convinced that the software problems and overheating are connected, due to the fact that the issues started at the same time.

Can you use your phone to take a picture of the message instead of a screenshot?

 

[drumone]

Igor, that would make entirely too much sense! ROFL I have a smart phone but I rarely use it for pictures and never remember that I can. The next time it happens to overheat and give me the warning message I'll take a picture. I may not have to though as I'm getting ready to wipe the hard drive and start over with a clean install.

 

[BoomerD]

Just a thought...maybe your CPU cooler isn't making good contact with the CPU. Maybe remove the pump, clean both mating surfaces well with whatever is recommended for the paste you use, then reinstall things. OR, maybe just try re-torquing the mounting screws...

 

[drumone]

Thanks BoomerD, but I already tried that. I completely redid the thermal paste and re-installed the CPU. No luck. I really think it's a screw-up with Windows. Hence why I'm ready to start over and do a clean install... again. I may buy a different CPU cooler that is slightly larger than what I currently have. I can only go so big with the radiator size due to the optical drives that are in this case. Otherwise, I will have to buy a different case and cooler and reassemble the whole system.

 

[BoomerD]

Thanks BoomerD, but I already tried that. I completely redid the thermal paste and re-installed the CPU. No luck. I really think it's a screw-up with Windows. Hence why I'm ready to start over and do a clean install... again. I may buy a different CPU cooler that is slightly larger than what I currently have. I can only go so big with the radiator size due to the optical drives that are in this case. Otherwise, I will have to buy a different case and cooler and reassemble the whole system.

OK, but if the BIOS is telling you the CPU is overheating, that's not a Windows issue. Maybe double check your fan connections and which header is best for which fans/pumps?

One thing that throws me is here:

Fractal Design Lumen S28 RGB review (LCS)

It's been a while since we've put a Fractal Design cooling unit through its paces. The most recent items, on the other hand, feature enhanced cooling, a pump that is integrated into the radiator, an...

www.guru3d.com

t's been a while since we've put a Fractal Design cooling unit through its paces. The most recent items, on the other hand, feature enhanced cooling, a pump that is integrated into the radiator, and an improved RGB appearance.
Yes, the pump resides in the radiator surface area. Patent battles in the all-in-one sector cooler are well-documented, and with Asetek claiming patents for pumps that are placed within the CPU block, competitors are being forced to think outside the box to compete and bypass that patent. This is how Apaltek (the ODM behind these coolers) got around it: they slid the pump right in between the radiators,

To me, with the pump at the top of the cooling loop, that would be a place for air in the system to collect...grossly reducing cooling capacity. You GENERALLY want the pump BELOW the radiator so any air entrapped in the system will rise to the radiator where it won't affect cooling. (yes, that review is for the Lumen 28 and you have the 24, but I'll bet they're built the same)

Edit. It's entirely possible that the way they have that radiator-mounted pump, the pump is a bit lower than the radiator tubes and the pump pushes any air into the radiator instead of trapping it in the pump housing.

 

[drumone]

BoomerD - I did check my fan connections early on to make sure I had everything assembled correctly. The AIO pump is connected to the AIO pump header and the fans on the radiator are connected to the CPU Fan header. I think the pump on this unit is right next to the radiator (on one end) at the top of the loop. As it's a sealed system, is there a way to release any potentially trapped air?

I'm contemplating putting in an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 as a replacement for my Fractal Lumen S24. It's slightly larger and looks like the pump is on the CPU block. Thoughts on that?