overpriced

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: bearxor
You might make that argument for the iMac. You certainly can't make it for the MacBook, MacBook Pro or Mac Pro.

I'll challege that. Why dont you go ahead and price out a Dell system with similar specs to a MacPro and lets see what happens?

he clarified his statement as the iMac is the only that might be overpriced, spec for spec, and that you're buying more into the form factor, which is difficult to touch depending on what you want.

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Your the one freaking out.

It wasn't flamebait, the seller of the machine admitted as much. He buys new Mac products when they come out because he likes to show off as well as enjoy using OS/X. He bought a brand spanking new iMac when they came out because of his own addiciton. Just like he replace a less than year old MPB with the new LED lit models. These same people aren't going to mistreat their hardware.

Its under warranty, so if it breaks Apple fixes it. It is much more likely a newly purchased unit will fail than one six to nine months old

I agree that those people probably don't mistreat their hardware, they just have tons of disposable income that you can take advantage of.. but with laptops, I'd only grab it used if it had apple care, or I had the option to still get it (not sure if that's possible).

Too many times have I seen something like a NIC frying or screen dying outside that 1yr. Altho, I'm probably biased because I work support.. but I have had my old ibook screen crap out on me.

 

[TheStu]

Shoot, the closest thing I could find that compares to the iMac is the new Sony Vaio LT. It however bases at 1899 for a 22" WS, 8400M, 2GB RAM, and a 1.5GHz Core 2.

For $25 more on Apple's website, and $75 on Newegg you can get
iMac with 24" WS (higher res), HD2600 (better? graphics), 1GB RAM (but buying your upgrades from an OEM is silly, so 2GB from Newegg), and 2.8GHz Core 2 Extreme.

Or, you could stick with the stock 2.4GHz processor, and pay $200 less. You could put that towards a bigger hard drive, or a TV Tuner or who cares what.

So in that form factor, the iMac is the cheapest... really weird to think about.

 

[AmigaMan]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: JF060392
anyone else think that everything apple is overpriced for the parts they include

that is why I purchased a used one off of ebay. Let someone else pay for their ego trip and let me reap the benefits of their financial idiocy.

If you want someone else's used crap with their grubby little paws all over it, fine. As for me, if I'm spending well over a thousand dollars on something, I'd prefer to get it new. Financial idiocy...hardly. And what the hell does someone's ego have to do with it anyways?

so you are saying a used Mac is crap while a new one isn't?

For what its worth there is very little different that buying one less than a year old than buying a new one other than someone else ate the depreciation. I am not buying a filthy piece of crap, I am buying a system which the seller replaced with the newest generation. It is less than a year old. It still has a warranty. The seller even admitted he bought the new one because he liked the looks better and therefor had to unload this one.

If you want to throw your money away do so. I suppose you would never buy a used car? What about a house someone else owned? If not then your a sellers wet dream.

Dude chill out. For the record, I have bought both new and used cars, and my house was definitely not new either. But for a laptop, a fragile laptop, I prefer to buy it new. I prefer to know how well it's been treated since it probably won't last more than 5 years. Perhaps I shouldn't have said "used crap", but you started it with your flamebait post. But I ain't mad, so let's crack open a :beer: agree to disagree, and enjoy our Wednesday

Your the one freaking out.

It wasn't flamebait, the seller of the machine admitted as much. He buys new Mac products when they come out because he likes to show off as well as enjoy using OS/X. He bought a brand spanking new iMac when they came out because of his own addiciton. Just like he replace a less than year old MPB with the new LED lit models. These same people aren't going to mistreat their hardware.

Its under warranty, so if it breaks Apple fixes it. It is much more likely a newly purchased unit will fail than one six to nine months old

whatever man, suit yourself. Enjoy your used machine, and I'll enjoy my new machine. If you spent a couple hundred dollars less, congrats, buy yourself a personality.

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: Corbett
Actually, the whole Apple being "overpriced" argument is not very accurate.

Go ahead and price out an Apple machine, such as the Mac Pro and then go ahead and price out a machine from Dell with the same specs. They are virtually the same cost. Now throw in the fact that the Apple can run OSX and Windows, plus its design an form factor is 999x better than any Dell.

the problem is the haters will spec a pc that is "close enough" to the Mac Pro, then show how it's a thousand dollars less. but spec'd with the same components the price is very close, and as you said you get the benefit of OS X.

 

[TheStu]

One thing that I do like about Apple is that for the most part they do not skimp on their components. They only seem to use 4MB cache processors whereas some others would use 2MB cache ones. And I realize that is not a huge difference, but it is the principle of the thing. Sudden Motion Sensors, good quality backlights, and their laptop keyboards and trackpads... joy-gasm! I would easily pay $100 more for a laptop if it had the Apple trackpad.

They dont' always use the best though...
They got in hot water recently about saying that their laptop displays can display millions of color when in reality they only can display 262K colors. They achieve the look through a process known as dithering, and the lawsuit basically was brought to court for 2 reasons
1) Apple lied in their marketing
2) Windows dithering is better (not entirely sure how you can test that

A bunch of people were crying foul, demanding Apple replace their sub-par panels with ones that can output 'millions of colors' basically, replace the 6 bit panels with 8 bit ones. Here is the kicker though, there are no, NONE, LCD panels that can display 8bit color smaller than 19". So, if you have a 20" notebook, you have an 8bit panel, but anything smaller and you might as well wait, you aren't getting 8 bit anytime soon.

Personally, I dont see what the issue is... the average human eye can't see much more than 1,000,000 colors anyway, the rods and cones in our eyes can only pick out about 100 gradients between each color. So, for red, we see a range with 100 units going from black to white, and the same goes for green and blue as well. There is a theory out that some women can see 100,000,000 colors due to a gene that allows them to see a 4th color a sort of orange actually, but that is rare and is apparently only present in women.

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: TheStu
One thing that I do like about Apple is that for the most part they do not skimp on their components. They only seem to use 4MB cache processors whereas some others would use 2MB cache ones. And I realize that is not a huge difference, but it is the principle of the thing. Sudden Motion Sensors, good quality backlights, and their laptop keyboards and trackpads... joy-gasm! I would easily pay $100 more for a laptop if it had the Apple trackpad.

They dont' always use the best though...
They got in hot water recently about saying that their laptop displays can display millions of color when in reality they only can display 262K colors. They achieve the look through a process known as dithering, and the lawsuit basically was brought to court for 2 reasons
1) Apple lied in their marketing
2) Windows dithering is better (not entirely sure how you can test that

A bunch of people were crying foul, demanding Apple replace their sub-par panels with ones that can output 'millions of colors' basically, replace the 6 bit panels with 8 bit ones. Here is the kicker though, there are no, NONE, LCD panels that can display 8bit color smaller than 19". So, if you have a 20" notebook, you have an 8bit panel, but anything smaller and you might as well wait, you aren't getting 8 bit anytime soon.

Personally, I dont see what the issue is... the average human eye can't see much more than 1,000,000 colors anyway, the rods and cones in our eyes can only pick out about 100 gradients between each color. So, for red, we see a range with 100 units going from black to white, and the same goes for green and blue as well. There is a theory out that some women can see 100,000,000 colors due to a gene that allows them to see a 4th color a sort of orange actually, but that is rare and is apparently only present in women.

well, as you stated before, it's the principle of the matter.. apple lied in their marketing. It doesn't matter if the human eye can tell.

I do wish the macbook pros were either a little cheaper... or the black macbooks had a dedicated video card to justify it's price difference.

 

[secretanchitman]

this is exactly why i got the adc student membership, so i can basically take 20% off any macbook pro, thus lowering the cost significantly/back down to semi-normal prices.

but yes, they are expensive, but once you get down to the nuts and bolts (bt 2.0 included, wireless a/b/g/n, small form factor, etc), they actually cost similar.

 

[TheStu]

No, you can take 15% (you take into account that membership cost you $99) off the price of 1 MacBook Pro. The membership discount is only usable once. But, the education discount (which some nefarious people have discovered has no identity check for the online store) nets you a 10% discount which brings the price to $1799 for the MBP, and that IMO is a heck of a deal for what you get. Especially if you take into account the 'nuts and bolts' as you said. Nice aluminum shell as opposed to plastic, THIN!, LED backlit screen, bluetooth 2 w/EDR, 802.11a/b/g/n

 

[Tarrant64]

For the "whole" package when it comes to Mac's, they are giving you the best desl in comparison to other companies.

You're paying for the look, a pretty much flat rate for the hardware, and usually as of late the latest hardware/software that's available. Remember that when newer models come out the price on the original model barely changes, if anything.

When they bumped up the processors on the Macbook and Macbook Pro's, the prices never changed.

Apple is getting ready to(if they haven't already since this was a couple months back it was posted) move to LED screens. Prices aren't expected to change on the original models.

There are no difference in versions for OS X. Everyone gets the same package, everyone gets the full-blown with no price change. No more 5 versions of the same OS just for an extra 1-2 features. When you purchase a mac, again, you get the "whole thing".

The bitching between Mac's and PC's needs to stop somewhere really. If you wanted a decent processor, sufficient ram, decent HD space, and a strong wireless connection, but you didn't want the Apple symbol, then don't buy an Apple. Buy a Dell, or an HP, or a gateway. But when it comes down to it the prices will be almost equal across the board. Then it's just up to you to pay for the look and options given by each manufacturer. Once you get this figured out, you will pay whatever it is you have to pay to get that specific setup you want. This approach has always worked for Apple, so those complaining that the prices are too high doesn't worry Apple at all.

Same goes with the iPhone, the price sounds outrageous. But name "one" product out there that does everything the iPhone does, and has its look. There isn't one(right now), and as you can tell people are buying it no matter what. Apple finds money is no object to consumers who want something new when it comes to technology.

Looking at Dell, HP, and Gateway, they each have their own designs, different options for hardware, software, etc. Their base price starts lower than a Macbook or a Macbook Pro. OK, great, looks good on paper and obviously is cheaper than a Mac. Well, shoot, let's throw in some more options on the Dell, HP, and Gateway and see where we're at. Just about even, if not even more. Well if you want everything there is to have in the OS, you will end up paying a hefty price on the OS, and any other software you may want to use. This can easily put any other PC a couple hundred above Mac's base price on their notebooks.

I don't think there is any other company right now, that could put out a commercial for a phone showing how it works close up, and actually have you go out and buy it to do exactly what it was advertised to do. What amazes me, are those people who complain about features that the iPhone lacks. If you look real hard at what the iPhone promised to do, well sh!t they never said they would do that stuff in the first place. (yes, there is a couple of a functions that are supposed to work right now but don't, but there has been promising rumors that eventually it will). Remote wiping of your iPHone? Business people complain about that, but I don't remember reading the iPhone would have that capability in the first place. If you want that, buy something else.

I could go on and on, but I'll stop here.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: JF060392
anyone else think that everything apple is overpriced for the parts they include

that is why I purchased a used one off of ebay. Let someone else pay for their ego trip and let me reap the benefits of their financial idiocy.

If you want someone else's used crap with their grubby little paws all over it, fine. As for me, if I'm spending well over a thousand dollars on something, I'd prefer to get it new. Financial idiocy...hardly. And what the hell does someone's ego have to do with it anyways?

so you are saying a used Mac is crap while a new one isn't?

For what its worth there is very little different that buying one less than a year old than buying a new one other than someone else ate the depreciation. I am not buying a filthy piece of crap, I am buying a system which the seller replaced with the newest generation. It is less than a year old. It still has a warranty. The seller even admitted he bought the new one because he liked the looks better and therefor had to unload this one.

If you want to throw your money away do so. I suppose you would never buy a used car? What about a house someone else owned? If not then your a sellers wet dream.

Dude chill out. For the record, I have bought both new and used cars, and my house was definitely not new either. But for a laptop, a fragile laptop, I prefer to buy it new. I prefer to know how well it's been treated since it probably won't last more than 5 years. Perhaps I shouldn't have said "used crap", but you started it with your flamebait post. But I ain't mad, so let's crack open a :beer: agree to disagree, and enjoy our Wednesday

Your the one freaking out.

It wasn't flamebait, the seller of the machine admitted as much. He buys new Mac products when they come out because he likes to show off as well as enjoy using OS/X. He bought a brand spanking new iMac when they came out because of his own addiciton. Just like he replace a less than year old MPB with the new LED lit models. These same people aren't going to mistreat their hardware.

Its under warranty, so if it breaks Apple fixes it. It is much more likely a newly purchased unit will fail than one six to nine months old

whatever man, suit yourself. Enjoy your used machine, and I'll enjoy my new machine. If you spent a couple hundred dollars less, congrats, buy yourself a personality.

thank you proving to me you have no purpose in life.

Do yourself a favor and grow the hell up. It is twits like you that give rise to the stereotype of asshole Apple fanatics.

 

[preslove]

Apple's laptop line has the best form factors and build qualities in the business. They deserve their premium. They're not overpriced, they're just top quality.

Apple's desktop line sucks. You have the mini, with a slow hard drive, one dvi out connection, integrated graphics, and is extremely hard to upgrade. The iMac, while pretty, is expensive for the specs & you can't easily access the hard drive (Being stuck with 250 gigs for several years is lame & I sure as hell don't want to pay the inflated price for a 500gig). The mac pro is way too expensive for non-professionals & you can match the lower end mac pro specs with a dell for way cheaper.

I want a desktop & would love to augment my awesome macbook with another mac product, but none of its product match my needs and budget. If I'm going to buy a desktop I want to be able to fix a bad part or upgrade down the road & Apple doesn't offer an affordable option for this. The mac pro an awesome machine (I've set them up a few times), but it itself is expensive & the ram modules are even worse, making the total $ spent on getting a usable machine with 2 or 4 gigs even more expensive. It really only makes sense to use one if you need to for your profession.

I understand why apple neglects the mid-range desktop market (it's highly competetive with small margins), but I just wish they had a nice box below the mac pro

I guess it just gives me one more reason to try ubuntu

 

[bearxor]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: Corbett
Actually, the whole Apple being "overpriced" argument is not very accurate.

Go ahead and price out an Apple machine, such as the Mac Pro and then go ahead and price out a machine from Dell with the same specs. They are virtually the same cost. Now throw in the fact that the Apple can run OSX and Windows, plus its design an form factor is 999x better than any Dell.

the problem is the haters will spec a pc that is "close enough" to the Mac Pro, then show how it's a thousand dollars less. but spec'd with the same components the price is very close, and as you said you get the benefit of OS X.

That's the main problem I run in to. Most people price C2Q instead of Xeon. They don't realize the massive amount of extra cost that goes in to a Xeon vs a C2Q. The chips, processor and motherboard are all much more expensive.

You can debate whether or not Apple should be using Xeons, which is a perfectly valid point, IMHO, but you have to make your case on that and not how a C2Q is $1200 less than a Xeon. Duh!

 

[AmigaMan]

Originally posted by: preslove
Apple's laptop line has the best form factors and build qualities in the business. They deserve their premium. They're not overpriced, they're just top quality.

Apple's desktop line sucks. You have the mini, with a slow hard drive, one dvi out connection, integrated graphics, and is extremely hard to upgrade. The iMac, while pretty, is expensive for the specs & you can't easily access the hard drive (Being stuck with 250 gigs for several years is lame & I sure as hell don't want to pay the inflated price for a 500gig). The mac pro is way too expensive for non-professionals & you can match the lower end mac pro specs with a dell for way cheaper.

I want a desktop & would love to augment my awesome macbook with another mac product, but none of its product match my needs and budget. If I'm going to buy a desktop I want to be able to fix a bad part or upgrade down the road & Apple doesn't offer an affordable option for this. The mac pro an awesome machine (I've set them up a few times), but it itself is expensive & the ram modules are even worse, making the total $ spent on getting a usable machine with 2 or 4 gigs even more expensive. It really only makes sense to use one if you need to for your profession.

I understand why apple neglects the mid-range desktop market (it's highly competetive with small margins), but I just wish they had a nice box below the mac pro

I guess it just gives me one more reason to try ubuntu

I wholeheartedly agree! While I wish I could have a $500-$700 self-built, desktop-type machine that would run OSX, I understand why they don't. They really should allow people to purchase OSX by itself and support it on a wide variety of hardware.

Shivetya, you are just delusional.

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: preslove
The mac pro is way too expensive for non-professionals & you can match the lower end mac pro specs with a dell for way cheaper.

Are you sure about that? I priced out a precision 490 2x Dual core 2ghz xeons to about 2g's. It's not that much cheaper.

As for the "mid-range" desktop market... I think it might cannibalize their pro sales. That and it's a very saturated market to compete with. On the flip side, they could be VERY successful in sales... and grow far too quickly. Hell, right now I think they are spreading themselves a bit thin pushing the whole iPhone bit. On top of the Leopard delays. And the whacked out thing call the AppleTV

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: randomlinh

Originally posted by: preslove
The mac pro is way too expensive for non-professionals & you can match the lower end mac pro specs with a dell for way cheaper.

Are you sure about that? I priced out a precision 490 2x Dual core 2ghz xeons to about 2g's. It's not that much cheaper.

As for the "mid-range" desktop market... I think it might cannibalize their pro sales. That and it's a very saturated market to compete with. On the flip side, they could be VERY successful in sales... and grow far too quickly. Hell, right now I think they are spreading themselves a bit thin pushing the whole iPhone bit. On top of the Leopard delays. And the whacked out thing call the AppleTV

You know, I thought the exact same thing about the Apple TV... but me and a friend are talking about getting an apartment, and we were discussing how we would go about streaming our various movies, and tv shows to the TV in the living room. We finally settled on getting an Apple TV (and then adding in codecs) because:
-$299 for the 40GB model, so he and I could put all of our music on their, or most recent TV shows.
-We both have mac laptops, and pc desktops. We also both use iTunes primarily for our organization, and since the AppleTV is designed to link to iTunes...
-We don't have to worry about building/maintaining/tinkering with another computer, drawing too much power for what it is doing, especially if we are just going to be streaming the media anyway.

However, we may hold off on the AppleTV if we can stream to the XBox360 from the Macs, and have the 360 connect to the Airport Extreme (USB NAS FTW)

 

[randomlinh]

Yes, I like the idea of streaming.. but nothing will beat a computer for codecs. And what if I have a video I want to view that's not iTunes playable.. say.. a netflix download. heh. I'm screwed. So yes, I do see it's point, but it's far too limited still, and I'm not willing to hack an Apple TV.

So I'll wait to find some Core Duo Mac mini's in the FS/T arena

Or, see how this new slingbox that is suppose to be out "soon."

 

[TheStu]

OOh, the slingbox, i hadnt considered that.

My biggest problem is that I really like Front Row, but it is just a shiny front end for quicktime, and even with a lot of codecs, quicktime still isnt a silver bullet

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: TheStu
OOh, the slingbox, i hadnt considered that.

My biggest problem is that I really like Front Row, but it is just a shiny front end for quicktime, and even with a lot of codecs, quicktime still isnt a silver bullet

I haven't used it much.. looks cool. I never understood why the imacs get a remote.. or even the laptops. I can see a VERY small number of people that might use the 24" imac in the bedroom maybe where it'd be useful.

But otherwise, i'm close enough to the keyboard as it is, heh.

But on the heels of AppleTV... NBC potentially says bye bye.

 

[TheStu]

I use the remote all the time, heck i just used it. I keep my laptop next to me at work to use for music, and so if i want to change songs... click.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: Tarrant64
Apple is getting ready to(if they haven't already since this was a couple months back it was posted) move to LED screens. Prices aren't expected to change on the original models.

The LED screens are what I have been waiting for. Is there a firm date on them yet? I will probably pull the trigger on a MacBook Pro through the local University in the next few months.

 

[TMoney468]

^If you're talking about the MBP, the 15" already has an LED screen, it's just the 17" MBP that doesn't have it yet. No word when the regular Macbooks will gain an LED screen

 

[TheStu]

15" MacBook Pros already have LED backlit screens. No one has LED screens yet (but I can't wait) so you might be waiting a while for them to show.

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: TheStu
I use the remote all the time, heck i just used it. I keep my laptop next to me at work to use for music, and so if i want to change songs... click.

is it just out of reach? I used to have a keycombo using quicksilver to control itunes.. heh. But I got the new aluminum keyboard, so that's not really needed (altho, the key placement is not convenient IMO)

 

[TheStu]

It is not just out of reach so much as it is inconvenient to have to reach to get to it. It is off to my right when i am sitting at my desk, and since i am usually facing forward or to the left to check something, it is annoying having to turn to change the song (especially if I have to change songs a lot due to not wanting to hear 6 songs in a row)