Oxide Games: We only heard about DX12 after sharing Mantle results with MS

[NTMBK]

http://www.oxidegames.com/2014/05/21/next-generation-graphics-apis/

We heard nothing of the development of a new version of D3D12 until sometime after the early tests of Mantle were indicating that this radically different API model could work, and work well – data which we shared with Microsoft. What prompted Microsoft to redesign DX is difficult to pin down, but we’d like to think that it would never have happened if Mantle hadn’t changed the game. We are delighted in DX12’s architectural similarities to Mantle, and see it is a validation of the pioneering work that Oxide was privileged to be part of.

 

[bystander36]

I guess this goes to show that Microsoft is willing to learn from others when they see a good approach.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

Microsoft also probably realized they need something to boost their Xbone, so that probably helped make their decision.

 

[Silverforce11]

Microsoft also probably realized they need something to boost their Xbone, so that probably helped make their decision.

Certainly the crap AMD cores in the X1 APU would benefit when CPU bottleneck is solved. Johan @ DICE pretty much said DX12 is identical to Mantle at its core. Now Oxide says the same thing.

Doesn't matter, because DX12 will benefit everyone.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Exactly. Who cares who started what, when. Mantle is useful in certain scenarios, but limited due to the small number of games and the requirement to run on GCN hardware. If DX12 can extend that to all hardware and more games, more power to them. Seems like either would be ideal for something like Watchdogs with insane cpu requirements. Too bad mantle wont run on nVidia. Considering the complexity of a new API, I seriously doubt MS just decided to start DX12 after they heard of mantle. I have a feeling they were working on it or something similar as soon as they decided to go with the weak Jaguar cores in the xbone. But again, I have no way to know, and take every developer's comments with a grain of salt. In any case, I dont care. If DX12 can extend mantle benefits to all hardware it is good for everyone.

 

[monstercameron]

WOW, what beautiful spin!

Exactly. Who cares who started what, when.

Investors and the stock market for one...

Mantle is useful in certain scenarios, but limited due to the small number of games and the requirement to run on GCN hardware.

seriously dude it is a new api...how many dx11 games were out during the months after its public[or private] release?

Too bad mantle wont run on nVidia.

nvidia has claim dx12 support, so they will be supporting mantle by extension...

Considering the complexity of a new API, I seriously doubt MS just decided to start DX12 after they heard of mantle.

because your doubts hold more sway than people within the industry...

I have a feeling they were working on it or something similar as soon as they decided to go with the weak Jaguar cores in the xbone.

I dont see where the "weak jaguar cores" have to do with anything, these are consoles and there exists little to no driver overhead to affect the cpus...another fud point!

But again, I have no way to know, and take every developer's comments with a grain of salt. In any case, I dont care. If DX12 can extend mantle benefits to all hardware it is good for everyone.

If you didn't care why take the time to comment on it? just trolling?

 

[TerryMathews]

Too bad mantle wont run on nVidia.

http://wccftech.com/amd-mantle-api-require-gcn-work-nvidia-graphic-cards/

Correction: too bad Nvidia is too stubborn to write a Mantle driver.

 

[sontin]

Too bad that nVidia cant write a driver for a closed API.

 

[monstercameron]

Too bad that nVidia cant write a driver for a closed API.

they did for all dx versions so I don't see why not...

 

[ImpulsE69]

I guess this goes to show that Microsoft is willing to learn from others when they see a good approach.

What do you mean? MS has been taking others ideas for their own since the beginning..

 

[DominionSeraph]

they did for all dx versions so I don't see why not...

Microsoft develops DirectX to sell OSes. Nvidia isn't in the OS market.

 

[PPB]

they did for all dx versions so I don't see why not...

Ouch :biggrin:


ONT: Oxide is just expressing what anyone with some kind of common sense would think: There wasnt a DX12 at all in the works before Mantle showed up. So now its pretty clear that AMD hadn't developed Mantle, we would be stuck on FUBAR DX11 for a long, long time. The usual suspects should see this as a free Mantle-like perf. upgrade for their GPU vendor of choice :biggrin:

 

[3DVagabond]

http://wccftech.com/amd-mantle-api-require-gcn-work-nvidia-graphic-cards/

Correction: too bad Nvidia is too stubborn to write a Mantle driver.

Actually, it's just entering beta. While I'm sure Jen-Hsun would rather eat dirt than use an AMD API, the opportunity wouldn't have presented itself yet.

 

[sontin]

they did for all dx versions so I don't see why not...

nVidia has access to the API documentation - obviously.

 

[AnandThenMan]

What do you mean? MS has been taking others ideas for their own since the beginning..

Exactly.

Microsoft develops DirectX to sell OSes. Nvidia isn't in the OS market.

Nvidia needs DX to succeed so they can sell hardware, hence why Nvidia has such a keen interest in writing competitive DX drivers.

Too bad that nVidia cant write a driver for a closed API.

Direct3D is a proprietary API

I think it's extremely obvious at this point that Mantle forced Microsoft to scramble and announce DX12, Nvidia jumped on board quickly as well with announcements. That's what competition does we'll all be better for it, I've said it a million times D3D has become incredibly stale, actually progress of APIs has in general.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

But mantle didn't require many hardware changes beyond dx11. Does that mean that current gen cards will support dx12 or now? AMD seemed to imply that nvidia could make Mantle work on the 600/700 series.

 

[Stuka87]

But mantle didn't require many hardware changes beyond dx11. Does that mean that current gen cards will support dx12 or now? AMD seemed to imply that nvidia could make Mantle work on the 600/700 series.

AMD has stated what is required for Mantle to run. For AMD it requires a GCN 1.0 or newer card. For nVidia, Keplers have the required features for it.

I think the OP's post pretty much clears up what we all thought. If it were not for Mantle, DX12 would not exist.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

AMD has stated what is required for Mantle to run. For AMD it requires a GCN 1.0 or newer card. For nVidia, Keplers have the required features for it.

I think the OP's post pretty much clears up what we all thought. If it were not for Mantle, DX12 would not exist.

Right, and since dx12=~=mantle will these current cards work with dx12 or will microsoft pull shens and only certify new cards for it once it comes out. (GTX 800/r9 300.)

 

[3DVagabond]

Right, and since dx12=~=mantle will these current cards work with dx12 or will microsoft pull shens and only certify new cards for it once it comes out. (GTX 800/r9 300.)

nVidia is already stating that their hardware is DX12 (feature level 11_0). So it sounds like current cards will run with DX12 to the point that their feature set allows.

 

[Stuka87]

Right, and since dx12=~=mantle will these current cards work with dx12 or will microsoft pull shens and only certify new cards for it once it comes out. (GTX 800/r9 300.)

From what I have read, yes. All current cards will work with DX12.

 

[Phynaz]

I think I'll stick with Andrew Lauritzen saying that DX12 didn't come about because of Mantle, and was is development before then. Just because a game developer wasn't involved doesn't mean Microsoft wasn't already working with the IHV's.

 

[blastingcap]

If DirectX12 requires Windows 8.x, I think I'll stick with Mantle.

 

[3DVagabond]

I think I'll stick with Andrew Lauritzen saying that DX12 didn't come about because of Mantle, and was is development before then. Just because a game developer wasn't involved doesn't mean Microsoft wasn't already working with the IVH's.

So you think they would have been working on DX12 without AMD knowing?

 

[Granseth]

So you think they would have been working on DX12 without AMD knowing?

Of course they where working on Dx12. But it's interesting if Mantle pushed the schedule and added or changed features with inspiration from Mantle.

 

[Phynaz]

So you think they would have been working on DX12 without AMD knowing?

Nope.