P-4 puts Thunderbird to shame !!!!!!!!!!!

[DarkMajiq]

<< If its so stable why the Open window cooling it so shut up!!!!! >>

If opening the window to cool it makes it stable, then there are no stability problems. That's just his way of cooling it. So, if I used your logic, I could say that your system is not really stable because you need to use a HSF to cool it.

 

[Dexion]

And I doubt it would make a huge difference unless he's talking about negative temperatures. The truth is that a Tbird at those speeds really challenges the purpose to own a P4. You can argue all you want about stability, or Quake 3 benchmarks. It still won't justify the costs to own one.

 

[NOS440]

Well I just asked him for some real benchmarks and we will see if its stable I hope it is myself that would be cool. The point here is that its not a real viable everyday machine ya MORON

 

[NOS440]

Dexion/DarkMajiq No it won't and I don't defend the cost But it didn't cost me what your saying for mine so the arguement means nothing to me Money is not an issue for me I stole my setup for the price I got it. Again I never said that everyone should go out and buy one right now but soon that will all change.


If the cold air doesn't make a difference than why would he do it ???

 

[Dexion]

<< No it won't and I don't defend the cost But it didn't cost me what your saying for mine so the arguement means nothing to me Money is not an issue for me I stole my setup for the price I got it. Again I never said that everyone should go out and buy one right now but soon that will all change. >>



Stop being so self centered then, if your trying to convince us that a P4 is a good product and worth our money. Again you keep saying that money isn't the issue, yet it ALWAYS, comes up. Performance/price ratio is very important.

 

[Dexion]

<< If the cold air doesn't make a difference than why would he do it ??? >>



To get those extra 60mhz. I'm sure if he closed that window it would still run at 1.4Ghz since he's only using 1.8volts instead of 1.85volts which can easy stabalize the system.

Your really asking a stupid question though. Why would people use peltiers, watercooling, liquid nitrogen etc? Extreme cooling to achieve a higher speed.

 

[Priit]

It's pretty clear that our P4 owners have &quot;bigger than your's&quot; disease. P4 puts T-bird into shame ? Let's all belive that syntetically measured memory bandwith and Quake3 are the only thing that counts ? Oh yeah, that 3DMark's score is very meaningful, too... not What if we take some benchmarks that doesn't make use of SSE/SSE? P4 and integer performance: RC-5 client runs faster on Duron600 than on 1.5Ghz P4. Who should be in shame now? FPU performance: in 3D-graphics and raytracing P4 looks even much crappier than lower-MHZ P3 and is in same level with Duron700-800. In MP3-encoding 1.5Ghz P4 gets beaten by 1.1Ghz Athlon using non-SSE optimised Lame encoder. Using SSE/3DNow optimized encoder T-bird@1.2Ghz is still faster. Overall performance: P4 is considerably slower in linux kernel compilation and under MS C++. Where's all that memory bandwith now ? Compability: when coming out, P4 even didn't run linux with standard kernel (was it 2.2.16 back then?) and needed patch.

This is just a little and far not complete summary how &quot;P4 puts T-bird into shame&quot;. I don't bother write longer cause NOS440 probably now says that I'm a moron and AMD's zealot and calls all that &quot;technical BS&quot; anyway...

 

[dougjnn]

Pritt --

Nice, fact filled, well reasoned analysis. (Gave you a 10 )

 

[Dexion]

<< It's pretty clear that our P4 owners have &quot;bigger than your's&quot; disease. P4 puts T-bird into shame ? Let's all belive that syntetically measured memory bandwith and Quake3 are the only thing that counts ? Oh yeah, that 3DMark's score is very meaningful, too... not What if we take some benchmarks that doesn't make use of SSE/SSE? P4 and integer performance: RC-5 client runs faster on Duron600 than on 1.5Ghz P4. Who should be in shame now? FPU performance: in 3D-graphics and raytracing P4 looks even much crappier than lower-MHZ P3 and is in same level with Duron700-800. In MP3-encoding 1.5Ghz P4 gets beaten by 1.1Ghz Athlon using non-SSE optimised Lame encoder. Using SSE/3DNow optimized encoder T-bird@1.2Ghz is still faster. Overall performance: P4 is considerably slower in linux kernel compilation and under MS C++. Where's all that memory bandwith now ? Compability: when coming out, P4 even didn't run linux with standard kernel (was it 2.2.16 back then?) and needed patch. >>



Well the biggest arguement NOS will definately mention will be future SSE2 optimization that would completely RULE!!!!!!! <-- note the NOS effect. However, I really believe that if the P4 was so superior, even without the SSE it would perform very well, but it doesn't seem the case. Before P4's debut I was expecting much greater benchmark results due to its clock speed and architectural improvement. The P4 seems to have took a step back, without SSE2 optimization it performs slower than a P3. Intel didn't solve the FPU issue(with the Athlon stomping it all over), which they once boasted back in the P2 age.

 

[dougjnn]

What seems to be good about the P4 architecture is primarily that it will ramp up to some awesome speeds with future released chips. That and its capability when/if more software is written for its SSE instrucitons, as you say.

One of the hardware ezine sites, maybe Ace's, maybe HardOCP, or was it Sharkey's (sorry), had an interview with one of the top gaming house software coding gurus. He said that he estimated it would take from one to two years before C++ compilers were really fully and well optimized to take advantage of the P4. And that since virtually no coders were writing in assembly or lower tha C++ anymore, that is how long it will take before more than a few apps really use the architecture. (Sorry I can't specify the source/guy of the interview better. Probably you all could find it with a google search though, if you care that much.)

 

[NOS440]

Priit I have never stated that the P-4 rules everything and will not say this and dought that it will ever rule the legacy and to me meaningless benchmarks and software you speeak of. I also don't see why it needs too it is by no means slow at any of it. It fits my needs and rules the T-Bird in all the apps I run and all this with the case closed and a $9 cooler. After I sold my old setup It cost me nothing to upgrade so to me it rules the T-Bird period.

 

[CHHASmatroxuser]

What I find amusing it that when AMD came out with 3DNow Intel fans was loudmouthing about extra instructions could never make up for a weak FPU, but now that Intel has made the same move it's suddenly a great thing.

 

[NOS440]

dougjnn I'm sure what you say is correct But I will venture to say that by the Tom's harware results of what Intel software engineers did very easily in one night with flask that Intel themselves will release some kind of a recompiler type patch like we seen with SSE for the P-3 in some apps and like I said earlier the P-4 is by no means slow at any apps that matter to most users like myself so who cares it will only get better.

 

[NOS440]

CHHASmatroxuser well I wasn't one of those people and as history has proven that the only app that ever did any good with 3Dnow was the patch for Quake 2!!

 

[DarkMajiq]

<< What I find amusing it that when AMD came out with 3DNow Intel fans was loudmouthing about extra instructions could never make up for a weak FPU, but now that Intel has made the same move it's suddenly a great thing. >>

 

[frustrated2]

AMD has a hard time building chipsets for their products support and they are a chip maker by trade. I find it hard to believe that they will be able to integrate SSE2 properly into there products.

 

[frustrated2]

and folks we are fast approaching 400 posts and no Dexion I don't know how to use the edit function on this website

 

[Dexion]

<< Priit I have never stated that the P-4 rules everything and will not say this and dought that it will ever rule the legacy and to me meaningless benchmarks and software you speeak of. I also don't see why it needs too it is by no means slow at any of it. It fits my needs and rules the T-Bird in all the apps I run and all this with the case closed and a $9 cooler. After I sold my old setup It cost me nothing to upgrade so to me it rules the T-Bird period. >>



Well I don't know which nechmarks would be meaningful then. Since all the benchmarks that the Tbird dominates in are &quot;useless to you&quot; I guess benchmarks like Flask and Quake 3 is useful then?

Well I'm running my system case closed with an Alpha PAL6035 which is a $29 cooler. Its still relatively cheap!

 

[NOS440]

hmmmmm in flask the p-4 rules dude in the final tally of that software and 4 out of 5 forward looking benchmarks that Tom's Hardware did the p-4 spanked the Thunderbird pretty bad. The only weak point it has is with older software !!


yes I bet you are at a measely 1 ghz and thats overclocked LOL! would you like to compare benchs with me LOL !

 

[Dexion]

sure.. how bout 3DS Max renders? ha! It would theoretically take a 3Ghz P4 to match my render rate ;P

The point is, I paid an affordable alternative without having any regrets or drawbacks like stability or incompatibilities. This system has been stable for me, and its more than what I need right now. No game or benchmark can prove this system is too slow. Currently this 1Ghz Tbird is doing a phenomenal job for the price I paid and for the work I do.

 

[NOS440]

I have no problem with you running that system and am glad that your happy with it and believe that you have a real dollar value there. But by the same token so do I 1.7 ghz for less than 1200 total system cost from drives to cables and the works is a Value. I'm not saying that everyone can get the deal I did. But why does it bother you that I did ??

 

[Mustanggt]

yea right

 

[Mustanggt]

yea right

 

[NOS440]

Mustanggt yea right what ??? Don't believe I have no problem with it. Hell I put a Thunderbird in my best friend system for him. Man what a lamer

 

[Zephyr]

<< hmmmmm in flask the p-4 rules dude in the final tally of that software and 4 out of 5 forward looking benchmarks that Tom's Hardware did the p-4 spanked the Thunderbird pretty bad. The only weak point it has is with older software !! >>


You forgot something NOS... Tom wrote a lot of followups, but neither of these show the whole picture. The latest only showed benchmarks where the P4 won and left out those the Tbird won cos he had already published those.