P-4 puts Thunderbird to shame !!!!!!!!!!!

[NOS440]

Zephyr that is complete Bull pull a quote off here where either of us said that anyone should go out and buy one at the current cost ??? Your turning into a MORON

 

[NOS440]

Buddabudda Yes I said my machine when PLAYING UNREAL with the timedemo statistics turned on so I can watch the frame rates. It averages 132 FPS. You are confusing it with what the reviewer use I also truely think they aren't optimizing there systems/Game very well. Anyways if you want me to run a regular timedemo on Unreal that is fine with me just tell me how its done I have never figured or really tried to do it in unreal. I always use the in game statistics to optimise it.

 

[NOS440]

nosfera2 do you really think that between now and late in the year when the next revision of the P-4 is released that they will still be at 1.5 GHZ daaaaa I will bet they are at or near 2GHZ with the current platform and the way these OC that would put me at a minumun of 2.4 GHZ I call that a pretty good upgrade path to go for at least 2 years !!!!!!

 

[Zephyr]

<< Zephyr that is complete Bull pull a quote off here where either of us said that anyone should go out and buy one at the current cost ??? Your turning into a MORON >>


You keep advocationg for it being a better solution than the Tbird.. besiders the comment was main directed at frustrated2... I beleive you have agreed the Tbird is a better solution.
If you wanna go back to petty namecalling with me, please go ahead, you'll just prove my point of you having absolutely no valid argumentation but rather are justgoing by the good ol' &quot;let's redicule the AMD users&quot; thing intelfans have always liked in order to defend their overpriced purchases

 

[NOS440]

Zephyr

No we have a Valid Arguement and I don't believe based on the whole system and chipset in the big picture taking all thing's except price into consideration that the T-Bird is a better solution. I think the P-4 is a way better design when you take the Whole system into account for a user like me. Hell who cares about RC5 cracking and MFlops ??

Now if I had to go out tomorrow and pay the full boat price for either one than I would probably just stay with what my current system was and wait for the prices of the P-4 to drop if money was a big Issue. I am currently thinking about buying a Thunderbird to see for myself what all you guy's are raving about and I will be suprised if I find it to be even close to refined as this P-4. I just don't see how it could using all the outdated technoligie it uses in its motherboard and memory sub system. But hey I'm going to give you the benifit of the dought and do what I said I never would. Thats Buy a AMD BSOD machine processor.

 

[mechBgon]

NOS440, as I said in my post, those prices are for a motherboard/CPU combo, and were cut and pasted from Pricewatch.com.

frustrated2, what you are saying is that the Athlons require approved RAM and power supplies to work well. True enough. Intel is doing the same thing, but to a greater extent, with RDRAM and a new power-supply connector standard on the way. I'm glad you got a good price on your system and are pleased with it. I personally would not pay what its actual market price is, however, when I already have a high-quality AMD-approved power supply, CPU cooler and RAM anyway, and can get a motherboard and CPU with comparable capabilities for approximately 1/3 the price ($988 divided by $350 is 0.35). Even if I didn't have an approved power supply and RAM, $600+ would certainly cover the cost of both and still leave me with enough money for a second monitor and video card, or some other goodies like an IDE RAID setup.

As for being an AMD zealot, lol... I have spent plenty of money on Intel in the past. My dual-P3 450 processors and motherboard cost me about $1000, and that's hard-earned money since I don't make much. Nowadays a lowly $60 Duron on a $150 A7V outperforms the dual-P3 450 substantially in Caligari trueSpace 4.3 rendering performance (yes, trueSpace multithreads and uses both CPUs), and the Duron is more stable too. And you know what else? If I wanted to buy a dual-P3 1GHz these days, it would cost a lot less than my dual 450 did. Part of the credit for that goes to AMD for giving Intel competition. See what I'm saying?

At about three times the price of a 1.2GHz Thunderbird/mobo combo, a P4 CPU/mobo setup really doesn't offer me anything I can't live without... in fact, I'd rather go with dual 1GHz P3's or save up for a Palomino. You got a better buy on yours, so enjoy your system, and I'll enjoy my system.

 

[Zephyr]

<< Hell who cares about RC5 cracking and MFlops ?? >>


Who the cares about Q3A? Haven't played it for well over 6 months now.


<< . I just don't see how it could using all the outdated technoligie it uses in its motherboard and memory sub system. >>


Say how is the EV6 bus outdates? Please run the explantion how you reach that conclusion by me one more time. If anything is outtdated it the GTL+ Intel has used for 6 years.. EV6 has only been here for 1½ years and still reprensent the fastest x86 platform out there.. hardly outdated.
Furthermore to claim DDR SDRAM is outdated in comparison with RDRAM is rather absurd. It is two different design strategies not somehting you can line up in a en evultionary chain. Which is better is a discusssion I've attempted to take up several times but never gotten any kind of straight answers from the pro-intel camp.


<< Thats Buy a AMD BSOD machine processor. >>


And once again you prove your troll nature... no matter how many people tell you that AMD are any bit as stable as Intel I doubt you will believe it. IF you can't use AMD as a scapegoat fro your misfortune, then who's left to blame?

 

[JumpJoe]

You guys grow up. AMD and Intel sucks!
Long live Cyrix!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Long live TI!!!!!!!!!!!

This is just a case of who wants the last word.
I got to Admit, I favor AMD over Intels slightly like anyone who would favor an underdog, but I'll try to be unbias here.

be nuts to shell out the extra $300 for the P4 and even more for the MB and RDRAM. Fortunately, I'm not nuts and sold my SocketA board and returned to my old reliable never crashing 400Celeron/BX setup that seems fast enough to run the softwares that I need which cost me $80. Yeah, wish I had time to play games such as Q3 like you guys, but my work is fine
Even if the Thunderbird do outperform the P4 in everything, I still go with a P4 system if the prices are comparable since the bragging rights of the P4 is off the roof. I don't think any amount of nagging can knock NOS off his perch if he did get it at some loony toon price.
But for the average upgrade compulsive user that must have 130fps on some God Forsaken game when the human eye can't possibly distinguish past 40fps, the Duron/Thunderbird or even a P3/CII upgrade is a far more attractive solution.
As for me, I can care less where I get the 400,450, 550, 600, or even 650mhz and 45fps when I do play. To me, me spending my money for the benefit of one growing corporate giant in favor of another giant is just silly. AMD and Intel is just a name to me, and I know very few people that works for either company.

 

[Zephyr]

<< To me, me spending my money for the benefit of one growing corporate giant in favor of another giant is just silly >>


So you don't mind how things were 2 years ago when everybody* had to pay throught the nose for Intels processors? Free market is what this is about if you must apply some sort of ideological aspect to the discussion.

*except those few of us who brought AMD anyway while being constantly rediculed by people like NOS, simply for being unwilling to pay a smaller fortune for Intels products.

 

[paruhd0x]

This is the biggest thread I've ever seen...

 

[NOS440]

Zephyr I have riduculed no one for buying AMD and have said that I'm glad they are in Business many times it helps me get my superior INTEL products and bargain prices. Again Zephyr Thank you !!

The EV6 Bus/Sdram,DDRam can't even out perform on a clock for clock Baises the 6 year old P-3 line. So tell me what's so great about it ??

Yea I'm being a Intel Troll but your AMD ZEALOTRY has brought me to it !!!

JumpJoe I appaud you and your 400Celeron/BX setup !!

mechBgon give me a link where a 1.2 ghz Thunderbird can be had for 350 with heatsink and motherboard ya ZEALOT !!! At least that's worth owning and wouldn't result in a nightmare's of AMD BSODs ?? But in all fairness I must say the rest of your last post was very well said Thank You that really somes the situation up well !!! Yes they are to expensive But I believe this thread Title did not read INTELS PUTS AMD PRICES TO SHAME !!!!!

 

[lhampel]

yeah me too.

Get a P4 while supplies last!! You'll be glad to know that 6 mths from now you will have to replace the CPU, Motherboard &amp; RAM just to keep up with AMD.

Honestly, I'm glad people are buying the P4 &amp; I'm glad they are happy about it. Hopefully they will still be in good spirits whilst AMD Kicks it up another notch.

 

[NOS440]

lhampel I would watch those perdiction's the P-4 in the current form is going to clock way up there and in its next form is really going to kick some butt !!!! You may find yourself eating crow !!

 

[lhampel]

RAMBUS is about to get spanked

(From Toms hardware)
NEC joins quad-data-rate SRAM team

NEC is joining with three US-based memory firms, Cypress Semiconductor Corp., Integrated Device Technology Inc., and Micron Technology Inc., to develop and then make quad-data-rate (QDR) static RAM this year. QDR SRAM architecture uses two ports running independently at a double data rate, producing four data transfers each clock cycle. QDR SRAMs will reportedly more than double SRAM bandwidth and are aimed at the Internet switching and router market.

In related news, Rambus Inc. is scheduled to show its own quad-speed signaling technology (QRSL) at the DesignCon 2001 show this week. According to Rambus, the technology &quot;combines the patented double data rate (DDR) technology along with multi-level signaling to transfer four bits per clock cycle.&quot;

 

[lhampel]

The reason AMD hasn't offically released anything higher than 1.2 GHZ is because the 1.5 GHZ P4 isn't a threat. Can you see around the corner??
Oh yeah and this should give you something else to think about...2100 DDR isn't the top
current DDR chips are slated to running @ fsb speeds of 166 (x2 DDR) &amp; (4x DDR)

By by RamBus


Benchmark developer faults P4
The developer of a new benchmark program claims that Intel Corp. has influenced the composition of standard benchmarks to its own benefit. Moreover, he says Advanced Micro Devices Inc.'s Athlon chips perform considerably better than the Pentium 4 in tests that mirror real world working conditions. He also maintains that PCs with two slower Pentium IIIs outshine desktops with 1.5-GHz Pentium 4s.

Randall C. Kennedy, developer of Benchmark Studio 1.0, started working on his chip testing program while working with Intel but split under acrimonious circumstances after he published a less than flattering article about Pentium CPUs. Intel disagrees with his claims concerning both the standard benchmarks and Pentium 4 performance.

For more information about the benchmark, read eetimes.com.


Athlon wins analysts' prize over P4
The Microprocessor Report's coveted Best PC Processor prize has gone, for the second year in a row, to Advanced Micro Devices' Athlon processor. The analysts who work for the expensive, industry publication surprised many who thought that Intel Corp.'s Pentium 4 chip would dethrone the less expensive Athlon. Kevin Krewell, Microprocessor Report senior editor, called the P4 &quot;unbalanced&quot; and said that it did not outperform the 1-GHz PIII in office applications.

Intel did, however, garner a win in the best mobile category where analysts chose the Mobile PIII with SpeedStep over Transmeta's Crusoe.

Read the source article at pcworld.com.

 

[NOS440]

lhampel first off AMD VIA and ALI have all had major problems Implementing DDR and the P-3 seems to be coming out with it from VIA first and guess what there is no advantage over basic Sdram and the same is almost true for the Thunderbird. I think this is chipzilla in reverse and they have you all fooled. The companies that back DDR are the companies that have the most to gain from its success and fits into there Value skeem of selling there products. There is a good old saying you get what ya pay for and AMD supplies just what you pay for a bargain system.

That article is a big bunch of garbage from a Pissed off Intel exemployee. The benchmark he advicates is WIN 2K and WIN NT only and is designed to test work envirorment multi tasking and means nothing to me and most people here. I would hope that a dual rig P-3 under WIN 2K could out perform a 1.5 ghz P-4 in a multi tasking envirorment !!

 

[mechBgon]

Have a look youself, NOS440. www.pricewatch.com

 

[NOS440]

you don't get my point I did look and found the prices. but that for second rate Motherboard that will most likely result in lackluster performance and instablilty a fricking ECS motherboard LOL!!!! and again I will say who ever said we were debating price here !!!! Is that the only AMD arguement are you guy's that broke or what ???

 

[mechBgon]

Oops, sorry I was mentioning it because you did, back around post 440 or so:

The point you keep seeming to miss is that it didn't cost us as much as even building a 1 GHZ Athlon we got one hell of a deal and sold are P-3 setups for more than the cost of the P-4 we looked at the deals and The P-4 was the BEST FOR US !!!!!

If you don't like that mobo combo that comes in at $350, I'm sure you can have your pick of almost any conceivable Athlon motherboard with a 1.2Hz processor and still not break the $500 mark, even factoring in a nice Alpha 6035.

 

[PliotronX]

<< The point you keep seeming to miss is that it didn't cost us as much as even building a 1 GHZ Athlon we got one hell of a deal and sold are P-3 setups for more than the cost of the P-4 we looked at the deals and The P-4 was the BEST FOR US !!!!! >>



So all you do is play Q3 all day, then it is the perfect setup for you. This does not mean, however, that it is the best for 99% of other computer users. Do you honestly believe simply increasing a clock frequency will make up for the castrated FPU and lack of L1 cache in the P4? How long are you going to wait until you buy a 2Ghz P4? Do you know how much just the chip alone will priced? What will you do when Intel abandons your current PC's architecture simply to keep up with AMD? AMD is steaming ahead in terms of technology whilst Intel is riding their name recognition and highway robbery prices which &quot;uninformed&quot; buyers just eat up. Even though you got it for a fair price, my P3 700 cC0 stepping chip @ 1.1Ghz kicks the sh!t out of your P4 and it cost me 10 bucks for the slocket, 20 bucks for the HSF, and $170 for the chip itself.




<< Buddabudda Yes I said my machine when PLAYING UNREAL with the timedemo statistics turned on so I can watch the frame rates. It averages 132 FPS. You are confusing it with what the reviewer use I also truely think they aren't optimizing there systems/Game very well. Anyways if you want me to run a regular timedemo on Unreal that is fine with me just tell me how its done I have never figured or really tried to do it in unreal. I always use the in game statistics to optimise it. >>



You're doing a lot of namecalling for being pretty ignorant. Going on your word that you get 132FPS is entirely different from having proof of a timedemo screenshot.


Everyone; NOS and his girlfriend Frusturated thrive on pissing people off (hence the term troll), so why bother wasting any more time?

 

[NOS440]

PliotronX I'm sure that when I buy a 2 ghz it will be priced right I alway find deals on everything I buy. I have some great connections'. Also I see no need to upgrade the way this thing performs at Every app I throw at it is awesome. I see no need for any improvement what so ever. what you don't seem to get is that even if in some apps it only performs at the rate of a 800 mhz P-3 does the app that it does this in really need to be any faster ??? I think not. I do alot more than just gaming on this machine I run my entire business book keeping and everything off it. I have a total of 26 gigs of stuff installed on it as I speak and it runs it all just fine.


PliotronX what you think of my statements means nothing at all to me. If you want a screen shot of my in game frame rates than thats fine I will produce them LMK where to email them ?? I also asked for instruction and I believe you need a special timedemo file for unreal if anyone wants to send me the procedure on doing this and the necessary file i will do it and send it to any of you !!!

 

[rmzalbar]

Hmm - I have an Athlon 1.1GHz, I only paid $200 for it, and I didn't notice my computer running slowly. Am I missing something??

I do see large zip files and _some_ of the newest games running faster than my old celeron 300a @ 450, but other than that I don't even see any difference in general windows application speed over that CPU either. Will the P4 help me check my email faster? Also, I fail to see how your P4 would make your computer immune to harddisk hits. Does the magical essence of the Intel(tm) Pentium4(c) radiate from your processor into your hard disk and make it spin faster? As far as I know only large amounts of ram and/or registry tweaking will stop hard disk swapping, and current hard disks aren't yet mechanically faster that their own ata/66 busses which even old pentiums are fast enough to manage. Even that fancy raid controller never uses more than 10% of current CPUs speed..

Besides, if I wanted a pentium 4 wouldn't I be better off waiting a few months for the ones that are noticeably faster than the current generation cpus? I do other stuff with my computer rather than invite friends over and run benchmarks so I can point to the little tiny sliver of extra performance and explain just how it equates to my nut size in relation to theirs.

 

[ottawanker]

just adding this to the p4 being a good solution for the future ..

it may very well be, but the next generation of p4 is reputed to use a new motherboard, meaning that you will have to buy a new motherboard in order to upgrade. What does that mean? it means taht you will need to buy almost a whole new system. and by then intel will probably have abandoned rambus after they realize how expensive and useless it is and move to DDR or QDR SDRAM or what have you. Doesn't make it seem worth while to buy a p4 now.

 

[blurredvision]

Holy mother of God. Let me read this whole thread, and then I'll put my two cents in.

 

[NOS440]

ottawanker you are sadly misinformed my friend. The P-4 and Rambus are a match made in heaven. The P-4 lives for rambuses bandwidth period. The only Sdram P-4 system that Intel is going to produce is for the Value market because sooner or later Celeron and P-3 will dissapeer and it will be all P-4. Even when they change there paltform it won't be as big a deal as you all make out to be. Its not like the last available CPU for this platform will be slow I'm sure it will be at least 2GHZ and maybe more and with the OC that these things enjoy that puts me at 2.4 ghz and I bet the when the new one comes out prices on the Old design will drop like a rock and give me a cheap upgrade to get thru the year 2002 and maybe beyond.