PA 18 Special Election Updates

[Jhhnn]

Morning Joe was merciless this morning. They played a tape of Trump talking at some Republican fund raiser, explaining how he really ran as a democrat and went point by point on what he supposedly was for, oh, and of course he said Lamb said good things about him. Well, they went point by point cutting away to what Lamb's positions were from his own mouth on the campaign trail. The only thing that they haven't lied about what his positions were was that he does not like Pelosi.

It's insidious, isn't it? Fox operates on the principle that their viewers will believe anything if it's put to them often enough in the right way. I mean, damned near anything, including blatant lies. It's like this-

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161026-how-liars-create-the-illusion-of-truth

When it comes to a program like Morning Joe they get to control the conversation entirely. Punch out the script over & over again to achieve the desired result.

Trump really is a problem for them because he pushes it too far to be sustainable. That's why they initially opposed him.

 

[Jhhnn]

See my post above it's bullshit.

Plus more reasons:

Coal Country Rebelled Against Trump’s Candidate Last Night. Here’s Why.
https://www.motherjones.com/environ...gainst-trumps-candidate-last-night-heres-why/

That's just part of it. Trumpism is a rejection of GOP orthodoxy- they believed he was somehow different, somehow on the side of ordinary Americans. He's not, of course, and neither is the GOP. People who voted for them are experiencing an epiphany of sorts. Yeh, sure, it's a great parade but the only thing it leaves behind is horseshit for everybody else to clean up.

 

[Jhhnn]

Krugman puts it a different way-

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/...on=column&rref=collection/column/paul-krugman

 

[BadTrip]

Today Limbaugh was accusing main stream House Republicans for anonymously paying for mailers supporting Lamb.

 

[Jhhnn]

Today Limbaugh was accusing main stream House Republicans for anonymously paying for mailers supporting Lamb.

RUSH: I'm still tracking something down. I can't... I'm not gonna go there yet, but it may well be that the guy was funded by Republican members of the House.

CALLER: Ugh!

RUSH: I'm not kidding. It could well be that he had money raised for him by Republican members of the House using direct mail pieces that promo'd this guy as just great on the Second Amendment. "Vote Conor Lamb! He's protecting our great Second Amendment." It was money, a mailer paid for by Republican members of Congress.

CALLER: Uuuuugh. Yeah, that's (crosstalk).

RUSH: Still tracking that down. Still tracking it down. I've heard it. I've got a story already that maintains it, asserts that it's true. But it sounds so unbelievable to me that I'm still tracking this down.

https://970wfla.iheart.com/featured...nk-ticket-to-victory-is-to-hide-who-they-are/

Oh, and Conor Lamb is really a Republican....

 

[BadTrip]

https://970wfla.iheart.com/featured...nk-ticket-to-victory-is-to-hide-who-they-are/

Oh, and Conor Lamb is really a Republican....

Good find. That is exactly what I was referring to.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Lamb opposes Trump's tax cuts, is pro-choice, and supports tighter gun regulations than Republicans are willing to enact.

He is not even remotely more of a Republican than a Democrat. What sort of nonsense is this?

Not entirely true. Lamb was a practical candidate to run in a deep red area.

Most of Lamb’s positions align with those of moderate Democrats.

On a few issues he is not as dogmatic.

He believes life begins at conception but is also pro-choice. I don’t want to turn this into an endless abortion debate, but those positions seem contradictory and in opposition to more left leaning Democrats.

He also supports gun control measures, yet posed with an AR-15, and walks a very fine line on this topic.

He supports tariffs and “leveling the playing field”, which aligns him with Trump.

He opposes GOP tax cuts.

Lamb’s victory is a rejection of Trump by a candidate that had to shift right. Once you take the alt-right out of the equation, Lamb represents where the next political fault lines will start to form.

 

[Jhhnn]

Not entirely true. Lamb was a practical candidate to run in a deep red area.

Most of Lamb’s positions align with those of moderate Democrats.

On a few issues he is not as dogmatic.

He believes life begins at conception but is also pro-choice. I don’t want to turn this into an endless abortion debate, but those positions seem contradictory and in opposition to more left leaning Democrats.

He also supports gun control measures, yet posed with an AR-15, and walks a very fine line on this topic.

He supports tariffs and “leveling the playing field”, which aligns him with Trump.

He opposes GOP tax cuts.

Lamb’s victory is a rejection of Trump by a candidate that had to shift right. Once you take the alt-right out of the equation, Lamb represents where the next political fault lines will start to form.

That's the "He's not really a Democrat" routine.

 

[UberNeuman]

That's the "He's not really a Democrat" routine.

He's got that old Trump buyer's remose. lol.

 

[ivwshane]

That's the "He's not really a Democrat" routine.

He's been doing it since page two.

 

[Jhhnn]

He's got that old Trump buyer's remose. lol.

That's apparently true for a lot of people in Lamb's district. Look for it to sweep the nation in November.

 

[UberNeuman]

That's apparently true for a lot of people in Lamb's district. Look for it to sweep the nation in November.

Normal people will want to help and try to make things better, and Starbuck will still be here to tell everyone about Hillary and have his grave concern for everything that Democrats should have done. He just really cares. So much. It hurts!

 

[evident]

That's the "He's not really a Democrat" routine.

I don't think democrats have as strong of a litmus test as the republicans do, and that's a good thing.

 

[UberNeuman]

I don't think democrats have as strong of a litmus test as the republicans do, and that's a good thing.

They haven't had to. Democrats don't embace outright bat-shit crazy.

 

[ivwshane]

I don't think democrats have as strong of a litmus test as the republicans do, and that's a good thing.

Exactly and its why righties fear progressives, they think they represent all Democrats. Really its just projecting on their part as the Republican party are very strict on who gets to call themselves Republicans.

 

[Jaskalas]

If Democrats can hoist up moderates to win deep red seats, that'd be a hell of a start and work to break Republican majorities.
Lamb is no hero of mine, but he'll still help restore sanity and reason to Washington. Similar to Doug Jones. At the end of the day these folks are more likely to support the path forward. Infinitely more so than their alternatives.

 

[fskimospy]

Not entirely true. Lamb was a practical candidate to run in a deep red area.

Most of Lamb’s positions align with those of moderate Democrats.

On a few issues he is not as dogmatic.

He believes life begins at conception but is also pro-choice. I don’t want to turn this into an endless abortion debate, but those positions seem contradictory and in opposition to more left leaning Democrats.

He also supports gun control measures, yet posed with an AR-15, and walks a very fine line on this topic.

He supports tariffs and “leveling the playing field”, which aligns him with Trump.

He opposes GOP tax cuts.

Lamb’s victory is a rejection of Trump by a candidate that had to shift right. Once you take the alt-right out of the equation, Lamb represents where the next political fault lines will start to form.

I mean his views on abortion are basically the same as Joe Biden and John Kerry’s. This is not a new position for Democrats, it’s pretty standard.

As far as tariffs go, Democrats have long been far more supportive of them than Republicans. (This was one of the few areas Republicans were simply right on. Too bad, haha) It’s strange to have Republicans move to the Democratic position and then say Democrats moved to them.

The only area where Lamb seems significantly to the right of the average Democrat is on gun control. This is just desperate spin by Republicans to find an excuse as to why this isn’t a catastrophic loss.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Lamb might be more right than many Democrats, but his positions are reasonable. They are the type of positions that we can have a civil conversation about and come to compromises that work for everyone. That is the real difference between Lamb and Republicans, he is not dogmatic about his positions.

That also means that he will work with his party to advance their platform, even if he disagrees with some of the planks. That is what it really means to be a member of the party, something many Republicans seem to have forgotten.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I mean his views on abortion are basically the same as Joe Biden and John Kerry’s. This is not a new position for Democrats, it’s pretty standard.

It’s pretty standard for Democrats who have to walk that fine line for constituencies where pro-labor and pro-life intersect, and they appease it by personally opposing it but publicly supporting it. This is a dishonest position to take for political convenience.

As far as tariffs go, Democrats have long been far more supportive of them than Republicans. (This was one of the few areas Republicans were simply right on. Too bad, haha) It’s strange to have Republicans move to the Democratic position and then say Democrats moved to them.

It is ironic that Trump took a populist pro-labor position. Wonder why that is? It seems working class Americans are now the battleground for winning elections.

The only area where Lamb seems significantly to the right of the average Democrat is on gun control.

That is a pretty significant departure

I also noticed that Lamb was pretty quiet on BLM and #metoo. I wonder why.

This is just desperate spin by Republicans to find an excuse as to why this isn’t a catastrophic loss.

Characterizing this as catastropic is a bit desperate. This was a referendum against Trump. Trump may be motivating a blue wave, but it doesn’t solve the underlying political fault lines. In a place like CA, Lamb would have to run as a Republican, as he probably wouldn’t even survive a primary.

 

[hal2kilo]

It’s pretty standard for Democrats who have to walk that fine line for constituencies where pro-labor and pro-life intersect, and they appease it by personally opposing it but publicly supporting it. This is a dishonest position to take for political convenience.


It is ironic that Trump took a populist pro-labor position. Wonder why that is? It seems working class Americans are now the battleground for winning elections.


That is a pretty significant departure

I also noticed that Lamb was pretty quiet on BLM and #metoo. I wonder why.


Characterizing this as catastropic is a bit desperate. This was a referendum against Trump. Trump may be motivating a blue wave, but it doesn’t solve the underlying political fault lines. In a place like CA, Lamb would have to run as a Republican, as he probably wouldn’t even survive a primary.

Speaking of desperate.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Speaking of desperate.

Which part do you disagree with? Show your work. And no copying the homework of your peers.

 

[chowderhead]

It’s pretty standard for Democrats who have to walk that fine line for constituencies where pro-labor and pro-life intersect, and they appease it by personally opposing it but publicly supporting it. This is a dishonest position to take for political convenience.


It is ironic that Trump took a populist pro-labor position. Wonder why that is? It seems working class Americans are now the battleground for winning elections.


That is a pretty significant departure

I also noticed that Lamb was pretty quiet on BLM and #metoo. I wonder why.


Characterizing this as catastropic is a bit desperate. This was a referendum against Trump. Trump may be motivating a blue wave, but it doesn’t solve the underlying political fault lines. In a place like CA, Lamb would have to run as a Republican, as he probably wouldn’t even survive a primary.

did you have any outrage over the former Republican Congressperson who represented this seat having a very vocal 100% anti-choice record while behind closed doors demanding his mistress obtain an abortion he would deny to everyone else?

 

[Maxima1]

Democrats should be more progressive, but donors and the proportion of the electorate voting (slants heavily to the elderly) stymie that.

 

[Starbuck1975]

did you have any outrage over the former Republican Congressperson who represented this seat having a very vocal 100% anti-choice record while behind closed doors demanding his mistress obtain an abortion he would deny to everyone else?

He stepped down, didn’t he? I don’t need to be “outraged”. The special election is a result of his hypocrisy...and the GOP is rightfully getting facing the wrath of the electorate.

 

[fskimospy]

It’s pretty standard for Democrats who have to walk that fine line for constituencies where pro-labor and pro-life intersect, and they appease it by personally opposing it but publicly supporting it. This is a dishonest position to take for political convenience.

No it isn't, it's a position that respects the boundaries between personal morals and public law. It's perfectly reasonable for someone to think a particular action is wrong but not seek to ban it with the force of law. For example I imagine plenty of people think cheating on your spouse is wrong but don't wish to criminalize it.

It is ironic that Trump took a populist pro-labor position. Wonder why that is? It seems working class Americans are now the battleground for winning elections.

Tariffs are not pro-labor, especially the ones he put in place. They will almost certainly cost far more jobs than they will save. Trump's position is intended to reward friendly constituencies for supporting him while attacking unfriendly ones. It's massive corruption.

That is a pretty significant departure

I also noticed that Lamb was pretty quiet on BLM and #metoo. I wonder why.

Meh, nearly every Democrat has heresies on an issue here or there. I mean Joe Manchin is positively gun loving and no one sensible would claim he is a Republican.

Characterizing this as catastropic is a bit desperate. This was a referendum against Trump. Trump may be motivating a blue wave, but it doesn’t solve the underlying political fault lines.

It represented a 22 point shift from 2016 voting patterns. If that result held across the nation it would be the single largest loss of congressional seats in all of US history that I'm aware of. Furthermore, it can't be attributed to the Republican candidate being a child molester like in Alabama. If that's not a catastrophic result I don't know what is.

In a place like CA, Lamb would have to run as a Republican, as he probably wouldn’t even survive a primary.

And in a place like Kansas CA Republicans would probably run as Democrats. Doesn't change the fact that they are Republicans, it just means they are moderate ones. Lamb will be a moderate Democrat but he's still waaaaaaay to the left of your average Republican.