Pacific Fighters VTF follow up

[Linearsoup]

got it cheers

 

[RobertR1]

If someone finds a way to get the VTF workaround on the x1800's going, I'd be more than happy to test the game.

 

[Rogodin2]

Good.

BTW I went and looked at that XBIT labs article which benchmarked PF and it's absolutely horrible-no footnotes about what settings, what tracks, blah,blah, blah---the numbers seem wrong too. Hey Robert could you run the Kamikaze track for one minute using the FRAPS benchmarking tool @ 1024x768 32bit, manual view controls off, hardware sound off, noaa noaf, water 3, 'perfect' landscape detail? Thanks m8!

I'm going to put all three back up benched using non-perfect water.

Rogo

 

[Wreckage]

Well it seems that using VTF does work. The water does look nice and the frame rates are playable. I will have to get this game some day as I like flight sims that include shooting.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: Rollo
He didn't say "compliance" he said "incomplete" and VTF is missing from ATI cards. No way around that.

Well, ATI did say there's a workaround via R2VB, which basically shunts VTF duties to the PSs. If and when it becomes available or is even used is another matter. The fact that Far Cry allows geometry instancing on Radeon 9-series, which is detected via a similar method, might be encouraging; the fact that the F-buffer never seemed to make its way into games is not.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i know that ATi doesn't support VTF "natively" . . . they claim a "workaround"
ATI has work around VTF lack

True. I was going to chastise you for using TheInq as a source, but that quote/article is pretty sensible. Well, they did spell Render wrong.

He believe that this is better than just doing vertex texture cache. Render to vertex buffer is built on the pixel Shader and therefore you will have all the Shader's texturing capabilities.

When Nvidia is doing Vertex texture fetch it is limited to only isotropically point samples of two different texture formats. If you use ATI's Render to Vertex Buffer you can anisotropically trilinear filter any texture format that ATI supports. ATI believes that Renter to vertex buffer is just more flexible and better way to solve the same problem and even more.

Somewhat ironic, considering ATI only point samples FP targets in their more flexible pixel shaders, but I get his point. Unified shaders should eliminate this, and they're due this year, so I wonder how much of an issue this is or will be.

isn't that what we are looking at? IF the x1800's R2VB workaround is working [yet]?

Yep, and I don't think it is. Also, if it's a D3D-only workaround, it probably won't help with PF, as its VTF shaders seem to be OGL-only.

 

[RobertR1]

Originally posted by: Rogodin2
Good.

BTW I went and looked at that XBIT labs article which benchmarked PF and it's absolutely horrible-no footnotes about what settings, what tracks, blah,blah, blah---the numbers seem wrong too. Hey Robert could you run the Kamikaze track for one minute using the FRAPS benchmarking tool @ 1024x768 32bit, manual view controls off, hardware sound off, noaa noaf, water 3, 'perfect' landscape detail? Thanks m8!

I'm going to put all three back up benched using non-perfect water.

Rogo

I don't have the game. Apoppin was wanting to send it to me and if I get it, I'll test however you guys want.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Well it seems that using VTF does work. The water does look nice and the frame rates are playable. I will have to get this game some day as I like flight sims that include shooting.

Maybe Rollo will sell you his copy . . . IF you PROMISE not to benchmark it or post ANY pro-ATi info



. . . i am still waiting for my copy to get to me . . . and i DO like flight sims when i am in the mood.
=====================
Thanks for the detailed info, Pete . . . i guess the only way to find out is to to bench it on an x1800/x1900 . . . i saw your link . . . and got the conclusion:

"Q: does ATi's workaround for VTF actually work?
A: We don't know"

and
================================

Originally posted by: RobertR1

Originally posted by: Rogodin2
Good.

BTW I went and looked at that XBIT labs article which benchmarked PF and it's absolutely horrible-no footnotes about what settings, what tracks, blah,blah, blah---the numbers seem wrong too. Hey Robert could you run the Kamikaze track for one minute using the FRAPS benchmarking tool @ 1024x768 32bit, manual view controls off, hardware sound off, noaa noaf, water 3, 'perfect' landscape detail? Thanks m8!

I'm going to put all three back up benched using non-perfect water.

Rogo

I don't have the game. Apoppin was wanting to send it to me and if I get it, I'll test however you guys want.

it isn't me :Q



actually, Matt2 has it and is sending it to me . . . it's faster than if i try and download it. . . . if he hasn't sent it yet, perhaps he could send it to RobertR1 first.

 

[apoppin]

So is that "it" . . . are we done?

 

[Rogodin2]

If you guys want more testing done just ask, and I hope Robert can find time once he gets the game to run it through it's paces on his 1800.



Rogo

 

[RobertR1]

Matt,

PM me with the DL info for that game and I'll test it on my x1800.

Thanks,
Robert.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: RobertR1
Matt,

PM me with the DL info for that game and I'll test it on my x1800.

Thanks,
Robert.

Matt2 hasn't got back to me yet . . .

you need to PM me abou the D/L info . . . i bought the game.

 

[Ackmed]

Ive got a system a lot like rollos if you want to send it to me. I can run some tests on it, and see if SLI increases performance with VTF or not.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Ive got a system a lot like rollos if you want to send it to me. I can run some tests on it, and see if SLI increases performance with VTF or not.

i'll be glad to . . . the only problem is i only bought 1 license . . . i don't think it is right to give a bunch of people the d/l key without any responsibility of what they will do with it . . . . after they bench it i expect them to delete it.

i'd like to hear from Matt2 before i provide the game to anyone else.

 

[Greg04]

Originally posted by: Rollo
If anyone has any hints about benching it, they would be welcome.

When I play with 16X32 0X16X High Quality, all settings on highest, water=3, the FRAPs counter pretty much stays on 85 when I'm flying around alone.

Man is that game dull.

Dull? I like it - I have been playing for a year with 9600 vanilla. I just plunked down $200 for the X850xt...it's a grown up game - you gotta have patience. Like watching Hockey...no wait, hockey IS dull.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Greg04

Originally posted by: Rollo
If anyone has any hints about benching it, they would be welcome.

When I play with 16X32 0X16X High Quality, all settings on highest, water=3, the FRAPs counter pretty much stays on 85 when I'm flying around alone.

Man is that game dull.

Dull? I like it - I have been playing for a year with 9600 vanilla. I just plunked down $200 for the X850xt...it's a grown up game - you gotta have patience. Like watching Hockey...no wait, hockey IS dull.

Due to me being a grown up, with wife/child/job/home/other hobbies to occupy my time, I don't have as much time to "be patient" with games. I play something every day, but I don't remember the last time I played much more than an hour.

To each their own though, I thought Doom3 was exciting and many thought it got dull.

 

[Greg04]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Greg04

Originally posted by: Rollo
If anyone has any hints about benching it, they would be welcome.

When I play with 16X32 0X16X High Quality, all settings on highest, water=3, the FRAPs counter pretty much stays on 85 when I'm flying around alone.

Man is that game dull.

Dull? I like it - I have been playing for a year with 9600 vanilla. I just plunked down $200 for the X850xt...it's a grown up game - you gotta have patience. Like watching Hockey...no wait, hockey IS dull.

Due to me being a grown up, with wife/child/job/home/other hobbies to occupy my time, I don't have as much time to "be patient" with games. I play something every day, but I don't remember the last time I played much more than an hour.

To each their own though, I thought Doom3 was exciting and many thought it got dull.

Heheh, I'm right there with ya, I have a wife,new home and this lawyer gig that gets in the way too. I only play for about an hou, but its the only game that has been able to keep my attention long term. Like music and food, it's a very individual choice.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Greg04

Dull? I like it - I have been playing for a year with 9600 vanilla. I just plunked down $200 for the X850xt...it's a grown up game - you gotta have patience. Like watching Hockey...no wait, hockey IS dull.

Heheh, I'm right there with ya, I have a wife,new home and this lawyer gig that gets in the way too. I only play for about an hou, but its the only game that has been able to keep my attention long term. Like music and food, it's a very individual choice.

i bought it to just bench it for here . . . and i do plan to play it.

Is it a "sim" or actually a game? Can i expect a steep learning curve?

. . . and there must have been a huge improvement from a 9600 to an x850xt . . . i made the same upgrade from a 9800xt and i am impressed.

in my experience, flight sims are for dedicated players . . . just like learning to fly a real airplane, you need learn hundreds of pages from a manual.

 

[Pete]

Well, my only remaining question is whether there's a water = 4 setting or not, or if that's only with the beta DLLs. The natural follow-up is if it looks or benches differently.

It's probably a sim, so you'll have to unlearn the first person shooter way of moving (spaz shoot spaz ). You've got to move smoothly and gradually, and very preferably with a joystick.

And ATI owners might want to try the new DLLs for prettier water.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Pete
Well, my only remaining question is whether there's a water = 4 setting or not, or if that's only with the beta DLLs. The natural follow-up is if it looks or benches differently.

It's probably a sim, so you'll have to unlearn the first person shooter way of moving (spaz shoot spaz ). You've got to move smoothly and gradually, and very preferably with a joystick.

And ATI owners might want to try the new DLLs for prettier water.

i have a joystick and i used to "play" flight sims . . . way back when . .. with 100 page manuals . . . when i had patience . . .

do you think the new ATi drivers [i guess due Tuesday with the xtx] will have the new dlls? or a 'workaround' for VTF? or ever?

. . . and as soon as i hear from Matt2, we can get PF to an x1800 system . . . i don't think he has been here for a few days and it hasn't showed up in the mail yet.

 

[Rogodin2]

Apoppin

It's a fairly steep leanring curve if you fly fairly realistic settings-taking off and landing will be the most difficult to get the hang of.

Once you're decent you'll want to dl the 'hyperlobby' client and fly against real players-it's much more fun!

Hope to see some 1800 benchies soon!

Rogo

 

[Pete]

Eh, those huge manuals of past sims dedicated most of their space to nice pics and detailed history of their material. Flying acceptably comes with practice. Hey, they're sims, not action games.

The new DLLs I'm referring to are from the Maddox devs, not ATI. Keep in mind they're beta, and may have some problems (listed in that thread).

Even if ATI implements R2VB, X1000 owners may not see VTF water in PF b/c:

1) R2VB may be D3D-only
2) PF VTF is OGL-only
3) PF VTF apparently uses NV-specific OGL commands, so even if R2VB works with OGL, the Maddox devs would also have to change their VTF code to work with ATI cards.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rogodin2
Apoppin

It's a fairly steep leanring curve if you fly fairly realistic settings-taking off and landing will be the most difficult to get the hang of.

Once you're decent you'll want to dl the 'hyperlobby' client and fly against real players-it's much more fun!

Hope to see some 1800 benchies soon!

Rogo

thanks! . . . i don't know about online . . . 56K dialup

so it's a 'sim' where you get to shoot down planes . . . i won't start "realistic" until i am sure i will like it . . .

as to the x1800 benches . . . me too!

Pete i remember one flight sim i had that was probably 100 pages of instructions, cockpit diagrams and tech details . . . not too much different than my friend who became a 'real' pilot. . . . he just had multiple and thicker manuals . . . plus the 'crash' has more serious consequences.

and a LOT more expensive
:Q

 

[apoppin]

Update

Matt2 is back and already mailed the PF DVD last week . . . i should have it tomorrow.
:thumbsup:

PM me - especially for x1800/x1900 owners or 7800 series - and i'll arrange to get it to you to bench for the forum.