Padilla convicted...

[alchemize]

Glad this is finally over. And glad he was tired and convicted in a civilian court. I wish it had gone to the supreme court to resolve the issue of detention. IMO US citizens should not be detained by the military under any circumstances.

Link

Estela Lebron, Padilla's mother, said outside the courthouse: "The winner is George Bush."

Yes, your son is perfect I'm sure. Never met a mother yet who would admit his kid went wrong.

Another momma snippet:

"I'm not surprised by anything in this place anymore," she said. "This is a Republican city."

LOL!

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Glad this is finally over. And glad he was tired and convicted in a civilian court. I wish it had gone to the supreme court to resolve the issue of detention. IMO US citizens should not be detained by the military under any circumstances.

Link

Estela Lebron, Padilla's mother, said outside the courthouse: "The winner is George Bush."

Yes, your son is perfect I'm sure. Never met a mother yet who would admit his kid went wrong.

Another momma snippet:

"I'm not surprised by anything in this place anymore," she said. "This is a Republican city."

LOL!

I suppose Bush and the neocons made him do it, right? :laugh:

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Glad this is finally over. And glad he was tired and convicted in a civilian court. I wish it had gone to the supreme court to resolve the issue of detention. IMO US citizens should not be detained by the military under any circumstances.

Link

Estela Lebron, Padilla's mother, said outside the courthouse: "The winner is George Bush."

Yes, your son is perfect I'm sure. Never met a mother yet who would admit his kid went wrong.

Another momma snippet:

"I'm not surprised by anything in this place anymore," she said. "This is a Republican city."

LOL!

OMG, Padilla's mother sounds just like Mcowen. Maybe seperated at birth?

 

[Sinsear]

Cue the apologists that will insist on his innocence...

 

[Screech]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Glad this is finally over. And glad he was tired and convicted in a civilian court. I wish it had gone to the supreme court to resolve the issue of detention. IMO US citizens should not be detained by the military under any circumstances.

Link

Estela Lebron, Padilla's mother, said outside the courthouse: "The winner is George Bush."

Yes, your son is perfect I'm sure. Never met a mother yet who would admit his kid went wrong.

Another momma snippet:

"I'm not surprised by anything in this place anymore," she said. "This is a Republican city."

LOL!

Neither have I

That aside, the mom is a loon.....

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Cue the apologists that will insist on his innocence...

I won't insist on innocence but to me imprisoning an American citizen for 3.5 years with out access to a lawyer or being charged with a crime makes a mockery of due process.

 

[fskimospy]

Are you people insane? The Padilla case has never been about whether or not he was guilty or innocent.

Do you know what happened in this case? The President took a US citizen, declared him an enemy combatant, and held him without access to courts, lawyers, or the legal system for YEARS. This is against everything the US stands for!

I want someone to come forward and defend this clear, obvious breach of the President's constitutional powers and his duty to the citizens of this country. This entire business was a disgrace.

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Are you people insane? The Padilla case has never been about whether or not he was guilty or innocent.

Do you know what happened in this case? The President took a US citizen, declared him an enemy combatant, and held him without access to courts, lawyers, or the legal system for YEARS. This is against everything the US stands for!

I want someone to come forward and defend this clear, obvious breach of the President's constitutional powers and his duty to the citizens of this country. This entire business was a disgrace.

They won't care, you can do anything to anyone as long as they're eventually found guilty. Also, wasn't the only evidence a application or something. I remember he first was going to be charged with trying to set off a dirty bomb which proved to be false.

 

[heartsurgeon]

I won't insist on innocence but to me imprisoning an American citizen for 3.5 years with out access to a lawyer or being charged with a crime makes a mockery of due process.

"Padilla, Adham Amin Hassoun and Kifah Wael Jayyousi face life in prison because they were convicted of conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim people overseas. All three were also convicted of two terrorism material support counts that carry potential 15-year sentences each."

I believe Padilla is in simple terms a traitor, and actually deserves to be executed. Our due process has actually spared his life. That's hardly a mockery of justice. Concern for Padillla is a mockery of common sense.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: azazyel

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Are you people insane? The Padilla case has never been about whether or not he was guilty or innocent.

Do you know what happened in this case? The President took a US citizen, declared him an enemy combatant, and held him without access to courts, lawyers, or the legal system for YEARS. This is against everything the US stands for!

I want someone to come forward and defend this clear, obvious breach of the President's constitutional powers and his duty to the citizens of this country. This entire business was a disgrace.

They won't care, you can do anything to anyone as long as they're eventually found guilty. Also, wasn't the only evidence a application or something. I remember he first was going to be charged with trying to set off a dirty bomb which proved to be false.

Well it wasn't necessarily proved false, but you are right that he was never tried for it. A jury found him guilty, and I'm pretty okay with that. I disapprove pretty harshly of some of the things they did to him while in detention, but fundamentally I don't have a problem with his civilian trial.

The problem is the shredding of the constitutional right to habeas corpus, access to council, etc to a US citizen inside of America by executive fiat. That's a devastating blow to the constitution, and Bush's legal dancing around the supreme court (almost certainly to avoid a catastropic legal reversal... because the administration knew how illegal what it was doing was) means that this could happen again.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

I won't insist on innocence but to me imprisoning an American citizen for 3.5 years with out access to a lawyer or being charged with a crime makes a mockery of due process.

"Padilla, Adham Amin Hassoun and Kifah Wael Jayyousi face life in prison because they were convicted of conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim people overseas. All three were also convicted of two terrorism material support counts that carry potential 15-year sentences each."

I believe Padilla is in simple terms a traitor, and actually deserves to be executed. Our due process has actually spared his life. That's hardly a mockery of justice. Concern for Padillla is a mockery of common sense.

Ooh, there's one! I'll be awaiting your explanation as to why it's okay to behave the way our administration did in this case. Please be specific.

 

[Termagant]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

I won't insist on innocence but to me imprisoning an American citizen for 3.5 years with out access to a lawyer or being charged with a crime makes a mockery of due process.

"Padilla, Adham Amin Hassoun and Kifah Wael Jayyousi face life in prison because they were convicted of conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim people overseas. All three were also convicted of two terrorism material support counts that carry potential 15-year sentences each."

I believe Padilla is in simple terms a traitor, and actually deserves to be executed. Our due process has actually spared his life. That's hardly a mockery of justice. Concern for Padillla is a mockery of common sense.

Ooh, there's one! I'll be awaiting your explanation as to why it's okay to behave the way our administration did in this case. Please be specific.

He's Hispanic. They can never really be Americans, as we all know from the immigration/invasion issue.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

I won't insist on innocence but to me imprisoning an American citizen for 3.5 years with out access to a lawyer or being charged with a crime makes a mockery of due process.

"Padilla, Adham Amin Hassoun and Kifah Wael Jayyousi face life in prison because they were convicted of conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim people overseas. All three were also convicted of two terrorism material support counts that carry potential 15-year sentences each."

I believe Padilla is in simple terms a traitor, and actually deserves to be executed. Our due process has actually spared his life. That's hardly a mockery of justice. Concern for Padillla is a mockery of common sense.

This is not so much a due process violation as an unlawful executive suspension of the right of Habeas Corpus. Article One, Section nine of the U.S. Constitution gives Congress the right to suspend Habeas Corpus, but only "when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it." Even if the President contends there was a de facto rebellion, he still would have to apply to Congress to suspend Mr. Padilla's access to the courts. I have no great concern for Mr. Padilla's fate, but have great concern for Mr. Bush's disdain for Americans' legal rights and civil liberties.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Termagant

He's Hispanic. They can never really be Americans, as we all know from the immigration/invasion issue.

A snack for the troll.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: azazyel

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Cue the apologists that will insist on his innocence...

I won't insist on innocence but to me imprisoning an American citizen for 3.5 years with out access to a lawyer or being charged with a crime makes a mockery of due process.

I agree completely, that was the real tragedy here. I don't care that they eventually found him guilty, its that they ignored the Constitution while doing so

 

[Triumph]

Based on what I've heard so far, I agree. Our constitution is more important than protection from the threat of terrorism, because if we lose that, what is there left to protect?

 

[kage69]

I won't insist on innocence but to me imprisoning an American citizen for 3.5 years with out access to a lawyer or being charged with a crime makes a mockery of due process.

Sums it up for me. Bush violated his oath to uphold the Constitution, plain and simple.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Wow, the justice system can actually do it's job? I guess the administration didn't think so considering he was rotting in jail for 3.5 years without access to a lawyer. Oh and what was he convicted of? The villainous dirty bomber was convicted on much lesser charges.

Sure, he's a giant piece of sh!t but it's even more disgusting that his trial and conviction didn't happen over three years ago.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Cue the apologists that will insist on his innocence...

Better cue them again, they must not have heard you.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: azazyel

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Cue the apologists that will insist on his innocence...

I won't insist on innocence but to me imprisoning an American citizen for 3.5 years with out access to a lawyer or being charged with a crime makes a mockery of due process.

I agree completely, that was the real tragedy here. I don't care that they eventually found him guilty, its that they ignored the Constitution while doing so

Well experts in psychology who have examined Padilla says that for all intents and purposes the US government has turned him into a "veggie" during this process. To me that is a greater crime than whatever Padilla was "convicted" for. Deliberately destroying the minds of people in custody is insane.

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: azazyel

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Cue the apologists that will insist on his innocence...

I won't insist on innocence but to me imprisoning an American citizen for 3.5 years with out access to a lawyer or being charged with a crime makes a mockery of due process.

I agree completely, that was the real tragedy here. I don't care that they eventually found him guilty, its that they ignored the Constitution while doing so

Well experts in psychology who have examined Padilla says that for all intents and purposes the US government has turned him into a "veggie" during this process. To me that is a greater crime than whatever Padilla was "convicted" for. Deliberately destroying the minds of people in custody is insane.

Yeah, I've heard that as well and that even more sad. While there isn't any real proof he was tortured I wouldn't put it past our government.


/I can't actually believe I just typed that and meant it
//wouldn't have been able to say that 15 years ago
///when we were the good guys.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

I won't insist on innocence but to me imprisoning an American citizen for 3.5 years with out access to a lawyer or being charged with a crime makes a mockery of due process.

"Padilla, Adham Amin Hassoun and Kifah Wael Jayyousi face life in prison because they were convicted of conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim people overseas. All three were also convicted of two terrorism material support counts that carry potential 15-year sentences each."

I believe Padilla is in simple terms a traitor, and actually deserves to be executed. Our due process has actually spared his life. That's hardly a mockery of justice. Concern for Padillla is a mockery of common sense.

Ooh, there's one! I'll be awaiting your explanation as to why it's okay to behave the way our administration did in this case. Please be specific.

You won't get one. The red meat crowd in here fail to realize that the same thing could happen to them tomorrow regardless of whether or not they committed any crime. Perhaps not this exact scenario but now the Administration basically has the right to seize all of your assets if they deem you to be an impediment to progress in Iraq, and that determination is made with the President alone. That is just a continuation of these extra Constitutional powers that have been granted to the President and exhibited here in this case.

You would think the Diaper-wearing security blanket Republicans in here would be screaming bloody murder over the 'big government' trampling on the Constitution.

I agree that Padilla should be executed but the ends don't justify the means in this case, he should have been given the rights afforded to citizens of this country. This entire case is a mockery of justice and an embarrassment for all of us.

Edit - I want to add that him being convicted is actually a surprise to me given how this case was handled. If this was a simple murder trial it would have been thrown out a long time ago and he would be walking down the street right now sipping a Slushee.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: azazyel

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Are you people insane? The Padilla case has never been about whether or not he was guilty or innocent.

Do you know what happened in this case? The President took a US citizen, declared him an enemy combatant, and held him without access to courts, lawyers, or the legal system for YEARS. This is against everything the US stands for!

I want someone to come forward and defend this clear, obvious breach of the President's constitutional powers and his duty to the citizens of this country. This entire business was a disgrace.

They won't care, you can do anything to anyone as long as they're eventually found guilty. Also, wasn't the only evidence a application or something. I remember he first was going to be charged with trying to set off a dirty bomb which proved to be false.

Well it wasn't necessarily proved false, but you are right that he was never tried for it.

-snip-

They couldn't try him for it. The evidence was obtained during a period before he was allowed access to an attorney or even read his Miranda rights. Hence, any such evidence would be inadmissable in a US court of law.

And I'm pretty sure Padilla did travel overseas (Egypt in 1998 IIRC) for *training* too.

Fern

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: azazyel

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Cue the apologists that will insist on his innocence...

I won't insist on innocence but to me imprisoning an American citizen for 3.5 years with out access to a lawyer or being charged with a crime makes a mockery of due process.

I agree completely, that was the real tragedy here. I don't care that they eventually found him guilty, its that they ignored the Constitution while doing so

We should clamor to repeal the Patriot Act. Unfortunately we don?t have a political party in support of upholding the constitution against the federal government.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: azazyel

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Cue the apologists that will insist on his innocence...

I won't insist on innocence but to me imprisoning an American citizen for 3.5 years with out access to a lawyer or being charged with a crime makes a mockery of due process.

I agree completely, that was the real tragedy here. I don't care that they eventually found him guilty, its that they ignored the Constitution while doing so

We should clamor to repeal the Patriot Act. Unfortunately we don?t have a political party in support of upholding the constitution against the federal government.

True, neither party seems to be able to resist the temptation the Patriot Act presents. Dark times.