PAL experts only ...

[NucleusWDS]

I've just bought an ATI All-in-Wonder X1900 (US version - NTSC)

I live in the UK, where the TV signals are PAL. Is there a hack that allows me to tune the TV receiver to accept TV PAL signals ?

Any help or advice is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[xtknight]

Don't most support all types of NTSC, PAL, and SECAM? You just need to tell the Windows video interface which one to use. That depends on the program you use but I know Media Player Classic and Windows Media Maker/Encoder allow that adjustment through various video settings.

 

[Gstanfor]

Yes, all capture programs that I'm aware of (unless they are a custom application) allow you to choose the TV standard.

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[NucleusWDS]

According to http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=27&threadid=1943224&enterthread=y

It won't work ... but how about selecting Argentina as the country ... will it work then?

Argentina uses PAL-N ... and is listed in the drivers/ati software

http://hometheater.about.com/gi/dynamic...www.high-techproductions.com%2Fpal.htm

 

[Wheezer]

I know that if you use the ATI MMC Software for your AIW, you may choose between NTSC and PAL

MMC 9.10

this is a pdf file of the manual, use the search function to find PAL and you will see it will function if you choose this option.

 

[Peter]

Actually, it depends on what kind of tuner /hardware/ the AIW card uses. Why? Simple: Video encoder chips are all multi-standard, but the HF tuners mostly aren't. Unless that's one of the very latest silicon tuners which are "universal", TV reception will be single-standard.

So if the card's got a "tin box" analog tuner on it, then fat chance it's single-standard.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Peter
Actually, it depends on what kind of tuner /hardware/ the AIW card uses. Why? Simple: Video encoder chips are all multi-standard, but the HF tuners mostly aren't. Unless that's one of the very latest silicon tuners which are "universal", TV reception will be single-standard.

So if the card's got a "tin box" analog tuner on it, then fat chance it's single-standard.

Every tin box tuner I've had has had NTSC, PAL, SECAM options just like in Gstanfor's screenshot, and all have produced different results so I assume they were functioning. Maybe I've just had newer tin box ones but AFAIK even my TV Wonder VE supported multiple standards. Are you saying I'm setting the video decoder to PAL but the tuner is still using the same frequencies so it's not PAL after all?

 

[Peter]

I have no AIW hardware at hand to look at things, I'm just describing the situation with TV-in hardware.

The video encoder chip can do all standards, and that's probably why all video-input software offers you a switch - and that'll work perfectly fine for your VIDEO inputs (if any).

Now, for TV signal there's a tuner and HF demodulator in front of said video encoder chip. Discrete analog-component tuners hardly ever are multi-standard, while the recent silicon chip tuners mostly are.

Feeding a PAL input into an NTSC tuner will get you loss of color, possibly no stereo audio, and if the tuner is really stupid, also no vertical sync.

Also please note that the only mention of NTSC and PAL in the manual GStanfor linked is for video /output/, not input. Just like the video-in chips, the video-out circuits in graphics chips are multi-standard, and there's HF modulator attached to them either.

 

[Gstanfor]

I didn't link to a manual, and those screenshots are showing the input video options.

My capture card doesn't even have a tuner, just video inputs (primarily designed for lowend security camera applications).

I just use my old S-VHS VCR for channel tuning. It supports pal/ntsc/secam and has a remote control for ease of channel changing.

I'd imagine most people have a VCR haunting the storage closet and this is an ideal application for them. Also good for VIVO cards that lack a tuner.

 

[Peter]

Oh right, the manual link was someone else's, sorry. But anyway, the multi-standardness of what you're using is exactly because you're not going through a tuner and HF demod. Note that the capability is in the hardware and its drivers, not in the application (it just lets you choose from what's there).

 

[Gstanfor]

Before my current capture card I used to have a Genius Video Wonder Pro II. That's going back to approx 1998.

It had a tuner and could handle ntsc and pal (don't know about secam - never had to convert a secam video).

I've mucked around with a friends Lifeview Pro video also and it could coe with multiple standards.

These cards (and almost all other BT/Conexant video capture cards) come straight from SE Asia, and while it's theoretically possible that they may replace the tuner for market areas, I consider that highly unlikely (just like VCR/DVD recorder tuners are unversal nowadays).

Perhaps ATi only includes tuner functionality for the country they sell their card in? (don't know). I believe some of their standalone capture cards are based on BT/Conexant chips though, so it definitely be worth tracking down generic BT848 drivers and trying them.

 

[Peter]

I know that card. As your photo clearly shows, its tuner box is NOT capable of doing NTSC, just PAL/SECAM. The video encoder chip of course is, but that's not what we're debating here. The same card had a different tuner box for other markets. This has been routine for the makers of these cards (Lifeview in case of that "Genius" card) until those all-standard silicon tuner chips showed up (Philips were first with that).

Remember that the OP wants to /tune in to/ PAL TV with a card that is clearly marked "NTSC". This won't work.

 

[Madellga]

One thing is the color system. That you probably can get around.

The other thing is the turner. The broadcasting in Europe works differently compared to US or South America. The connector is also physically different, although you should be able to buy an adapter.

I think you will be able to use the card VIVO functions, but not the turner.

I'm talking based on my own experience - I have an AIW9800 NTSC and never got it to receive TV in Europe. As said, the VIVO works.

PAL in South America is not compatible to Europe either. It's a similar system but there are differences. PAL-M, from Brazil, has more to do with NTSC (60HZ,30fps)) than Europe (50Hz, 24fps) - just color coding is different. The system from Argentina must work in a similar way.

Anyhow, I'm never buying AIW cards again. Better to have separated cards, they work better imo.

 

[Peter]

You got it nailed. Be aware that there still are plenty of separate PCI TV cards that aren't multi-standard.

 

[NucleusWDS]

D*mn ... Oh well ... it looks like the Tuner on the AIW won't work for Europe PAL

Back to the drawing board.

How about a Radeon X1900XT wih a multi-standard TV tuner card?

Any recommendations? ... I want one with remote + able to capture video too.

 

[Peter]

Separate PCI TV card is the way to go. They're inexpensive, and you get to keep the one you have when you upgrade your graphics card. They're even starting to become available in PCI-Express.

Do you want analog off-the-air and/or cable reception, or shall there be anything digital in the mix, e.g. DVB-T?

I usually recommend LifeView's cards (which also have many OEM incarnations as Typhoon, Genius, etc. blah). FlyTV Platinum for analog-only, and either a FlyDVB-T Dual or Hybrid for analog and DVB-T. The Dual does digital and analog streams in parallel, while the Hybrid has only one tuner.

 

[NucleusWDS]

is this one any good?

WinFast DTV2000 H

 

[Peter]

The key point is the software - and I haven't seen Leadtek's for a while. Also, if a card still uses the ancient BT848 or 878 series main chip, avoid. Philips 7131 or Conexant 238xx series have much better image processing.