panama papers

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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
Here comes the Hillary apologist, how much money do you make for each apology you make for her? If it's even just 10 cents you must be a millionaire.

He doesn't have anything to "apologize" for until something is actually proven, which is his point. Your posts are long on opinions about who is a "slimebag" and who is an "apologist" and short on facts. Actually, devoid of them entirely.

Opinions are just like anal orifices, everyone has them. Only facts matter.

In the real, adult world you have to prove your allegations. Now he's asked you several times to do so, and you've answered with insults and innuendo instead. So pony up or you're nothing more than a blowhard.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
He doesn't have anything to "apologize" for until something is actually proven, which is his point. Your posts are long on opinions about who is a "slimebag" and who is an "apologist" and short on facts. Actually, devoid of them entirely.

Opinions are just like anal orifices, everyone has them. Only facts matter.

In the real, adult world you have to prove your allegations. Now he's asked you several times to do so, and you've answered with insults and innuendo instead. So pony up or you're nothing more than a blowhard.
Naa you need to continue to read

The papers point to yet another slimebag supporter for her as I stated in my later post. You libtards call out Trump backers, I have the same right to call out Clinton supporters. The difference is Drumph backers have zero power to get him in office and then later have no impact on our democracy, they are just going to continue to foam at the mouth in the corner and eventually fade out like the Tea party is. The wallstreet money behind Clinton will continue to set the pace and laws of this country.
 
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TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Sooo.. still no link between Clinton & the Panama papers as the headline claims. Understood.

Archuleta was the Fall Girl wrt the data breach. Lynch's position on forfeiture is exactly what one would expect from any AG, sad to say. You failed to define your objections to any of the other nominees. Well, other than the fact that the uppity Kenyan usurper made them.
Sorry dipshit, I voted for Obama and have called out the birther shit on these forums too, God are you EVER capable of being right?. But since I have integrity (A word you have never heard of or should given you don't and never will have any) I can still call him out on his bad appointments.

About the AG you are wrong, Sanders would appoint an AG that doesn't support CAF that is exactly my point. Or does Bufffhnnn logic dictate that to an AG the only way to justice is by using that method? Wow that is retarded.. but then again expected.

Archuleta was the fall girl? Umm no she was UNDER QUALIFIED!! She had zero credentials to be in that position ZERO

Link: a relationship between two things or situations, especially where one thing affects the other.
Clinton-------Podesta
Podesta------Panama Papers
Clinton--XXX--Panama Papers

She could dump Podesta.. will she? https://neurope.eu/article/panama-papers-clintons-campaign-chief-linked-kremlin/
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Sorry dipshit, I voted for Obama and have called out the birther shit on these forums too, God are you EVER capable of being right?. But since I have integrity (A word you have never heard of or should given you don't and never will have any) I can still call him out on his bad appointments.

About the AG you are wrong, Sanders would appoint an AG that doesn't support CAF that is exactly my point. Or does Bufffhnnn logic dictate that to an AG the only way to justice is by using that method? Wow that is retarded.. but then again expected.

Archuleta was the fall girl? Umm no she was UNDER QUALIFIED!! She had zero credentials to be in that position ZERO

Link: a relationship between two things or situations, especially where one thing affects the other.
Clinton-------Podesta
Podesta------Panama Papers
Clinton--XXX--Panama Papers

She could dump Podesta.. will she? https://neurope.eu/article/panama-papers-clintons-campaign-chief-linked-kremlin/

Not quite.

The Panama papers link Sperbank to Mossack Fonseca through an intermediary. They reveal nothing about the relationship between Sperbank & Podesta which was a matter of public record all along.

The rest is just the usual fifth column Bernie Bro attack against the dirty Democrats. The Panama papers have nothing to do with civil forfeiture or Obama's appointments.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
Are the Russians actually behind the Panama Papers? by Clifford G. Gaddy, The Brookings Institution

Despite the headlines, there is no evidence of Putin’s direct involvement—not in any company involved in the leak, much less in criminal activity, theft, tax evasion, or money laundering. There are documents showing that some of his “friends” have moved “up to two billion dollars” through these Panama-based shell companies.

But nothing in the Panama Papers reveals anything new about Putin. It is in fact far less of a story than has been alleged for a long time. For over 10 years, there have been suspicions that Putin has a vast personal fortune, claimed at first to be $20 billion, then $40, $70, even $100… And now all they find is “maybe” a couple of billion belonging to a friend?


This is the dog that didn't bark.
The ICIJ is the self-described elite of investigative journalists—but what have they discovered about the source of all these documents? The only information we have about John Doe is from SZ, which begins its story: "Over a year ago, an anonymous source contacted the Süddeutsche Zeitung (SZ) and submitted encrypted internal documents from the law firm Mossack Fonseca." When the staff at SZ asked John Doe about his motive, he reportedly replied in an email: “I want to make these crimes public.”

But how can the journalists—and the public—be sure he’s trustworthy, and that the documents are real, complete, and unmanipulated? It’s not clear that John Doe is a single individual, for one, nor why he would have been confident that he could reveal the documents without revealing himself. He’d also have access to a pretty impressive documents cache, which suggests that an intelligence agency could have been involved.
Moreover, the revelation brings collateral damage upon legal business and innocent individuals—was that not a worry? In my view, no responsible person with a real concern for rule of law would advocate this sort of sweeping document release. There might be many unintended consequences; it could topple regimes, with unforeseen consequences. It’s pure and naïve anarchism, if the thinking was (as it seems from the outside) to create maximum chaos and hope it will all purge the system of its evils. In any event, the potential for using such a leak for political purposes is immense.
The Panama Papers contain secret corporate financial information, some of which—by far not all—reveals criminal activity. In the hands of law enforcement, such information can be used to prosecute companies and individuals; in the hands of a third party, it is a weapon for blackmail. For information to be effective as a blackmail weapon, it must be kept secret. Once revealed, as in the Panama Papers case, it is useless for blackmail. Its value is destroyed.

Therefore, I suggest that the purpose of the Panama Papers operation may be this: It is a message directed at the Americans and other Western political leaders who could be mentioned but are not. The message is: “We have information on your financial misdeeds, too. You know we do. We can keep them secret if you work with us.” In other words, the individuals mentioned in the documents are not the targets. The ones who are not mentioned are the targets.
In sum, my thinking is that this could have been a Russian intelligence operation, which orchestrated a high-profile leak and established total credibility by “implicating” (not really implicating) Russia and keeping the source hidden. Some documents would be used for anti-corruption campaigns in a few countries—topple some minor regimes, destroy a few careers and fortunes. By then blackmailing the real targets in the United States and elsewhere (individuals not in the current leak), the Russian puppet masters get “kontrol” and influence.



If the Russians are behind the Panama Papers, we know two things and both come back to Putin personally: First, it is an operation run by RFM, which means it’s run by Putin; second, it’s ultimately about blackmail. That means the real story lies in the information being concealed, not revealed. You reveal secrets in order to destroy; conceal in order to control. Putin is not a destroyer. He’s a controller.
My initial thought was the lack of stories implicating US involvement in offshoring was suspiciou$, but Gabby takes this to a whole other level. Given the size of the leak and unusual target (who's even heard of this law firm?), it seems logical that the culprit is much more sophisticated and knowledgeable than a typical hacktivist operation looking to upload docs to wikileaks.

About The Brookings Institution
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Meh. Over complicating it tends to deny veracity. This is the kind of information that's heavily firewalled against web access indicating that it likely came from inside the organization much like the Snowden or Manning leaks.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Are the Russians actually behind the Panama Papers? by Clifford G. Gaddy, The Brookings Institution

My initial thought was the lack of stories implicating US involvement in offshoring was suspiciou$, but Gabby takes this to a whole other level. Given the size of the leak and unusual target (who's even heard of this law firm?), it seems logical that the culprit is much more sophisticated and knowledgeable than a typical hacktivist operation looking to upload docs to wikileaks.

About The Brookings Institution

There's a much simpler reason why there's so few Americans: We don't need to go to Panama for such legal services, it can all be done here (and places much closer such as Caribbean Island countries where English is the language).

(I would expect some Americans to be included. There are US citizens living in Panama as expats and possibly some Americans doing business with partners who are either European or S.A. and those partners habitually use that law firm.)

Fern
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Why won't they release the full thing?

I think many are forgetting a very basic principal that has long been honored in this country and others: The Right To Privacy. (I suppose I should qualify that statement by saying, well, we used to honor that before the Patriot Act was put on 'steroids' and used against Americans.)

There should be a lot of innocent peoples' personal financial data included in these docs. No one has any right to that info, certainly not the general public which doesn't understand this sort of thing.

Fern
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
There's a much simpler reason why there's so few Americans: We don't need to go to Panama for such legal services, it can all be done here (and places much closer such as Caribbean Island countries where English is the language).

(I would expect some Americans to be included. There are US citizens living in Panama as expats and possibly some Americans doing business with partners who are either European or S.A. and those partners habitually use that law firm.)

Fern
I wouldn't call that a reason as much as conjecture or speculation.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
NPR ran a piece showing that it was easier to set up a shell company in the US than it would be through this law firm. I'm not sure about the off shore accounts though.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I think many are forgetting a very basic principal that has long been honored in this country and others: The Right To Privacy. (I suppose I should qualify that statement by saying, well, we used to honor that before the Patriot Act was put on 'steroids' and used against Americans.)

There should be a lot of innocent peoples' personal financial data included in these docs. No one has any right to that info, certainly not the general public which doesn't understand this sort of thing.

Fern

The right to privacy wrt financial affairs extends no further than the obligation of the IRS to keep private information private.

People who cannot be shown to have engaged in tax evasion or money laundering deserve to have their identities protected, even to the point of following Blackstone's formulation.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
I wouldn't call that a reason as much as conjecture or speculation.

I'm in the business and have worked here (NYC, Miami) and abroad (Paris, Berlin and London).

There's no need for a US citizen here to go to Panama. (E.g., Nevada corporate law is set up to accomplish the same things.)

Those in Europe know where to go that is close. Those in the US know where to go. The country of Panama is neither famous for these services nor offers any additional benefits over the more well known countries (or island countries).

Fern
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
I'm in the business and have worked here (NYC, Miami) and abroad (Paris, Berlin and London).

There's no need for a US citizen here to go to Panama. (E.g., Nevada corporate law is set up to accomplish the same things.)

Those in Europe know where to go that is close. Those in the US know where to go. The country of Panama is neither famous for these services nor offers any additional benefits over the more well known countries (or island countries).

Fern

If there is "no reason", there would be very sparse and negligible business interests between Americans and this Panamanian firm. But that appears to not be the case, with one article I read stated 441 Americans were named in the papers. The question is 'why isn't there reporting of the Americans who were named.'
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I'm in the business and have worked here (NYC, Miami) and abroad (Paris, Berlin and London).

There's no need for a US citizen here to go to Panama. (E.g., Nevada corporate law is set up to accomplish the same things.)

Those in Europe know where to go that is close. Those in the US know where to go. The country of Panama is neither famous for these services nor offers any additional benefits over the more well known countries (or island countries).

Fern

That's not really true. US corps cannot offer the level of anonymity provided in Panama. Like this-

Let's say I set up a Panama corp thru Mossack Fonseca. They provide straw man corp officers who sign over authority to me & I designate Mossack Fonseca as my agent. My name never appears on bank documents. That stuff is all protected by attorney client privilege. If corp income comes from outside Panama, there are no taxes or accountability to that govt. I now have an anonymous corp doing business thru a bank in another tax haven like Bermuda. Anybody attempting to determine ownership meets a brick wall.

That may well be true in other places as well.
 

Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
4,000
2
0
That's not really true. US corps cannot offer the level of anonymity provided in Panama. Like this-

Let's say I set up a Panama corp thru Mossack Fonseca. They provide straw man corp officers who sign over authority to me & I designate Mossack Fonseca as my agent. My name never appears on bank documents. That stuff is all protected by attorney client privilege. If corp income comes from outside Panama, there are no taxes or accountability to that govt. I now have an anonymous corp doing business thru a bank in another tax haven like Bermuda. Anybody attempting to determine ownership meets a brick wall.

That may well be true in other places as well.


Check the link in WelshBloke's post just above...

Another reason to hate lawyers!


Brian
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Check the link in WelshBloke's post just above...

Another reason to hate lawyers!


Brian

Americans can't hide from the IRS using American shell companies. Foreigners can hide from their own tax authorities, however. All of them can hide in Panama & a lot of other places as well.

At the top of the food chain, tax "avoidance" is a very deep & complex game. This disclosure is just a pinhole view.
 
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