Partitioning question and my opinion

[Think]

I had a few problems recently that were caused by 3rd party software being misused in my system, corrupting my registry.

I finally got everything in order but I have a question.

1) I created 2 disc partitions at the moment:

6G - Operating system
10G - other programs
100 - havn't done anything with

2) What's the point of having a swap file if you have over 1G of RAM?. Don't you think you should just shut down Page filing in the Virtual Memory section?. I tried it and so far I havn't had any problems.

Any suggestions and/or comments would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Nothinman]

2) What's the point of having a swap file if you have over 1G of RAM?. Don't you think you should just shut down Page filing in the Virtual Memory section?. I tried it and so far I havn't had any problems.

This has been covered many times and it's always the same. Several people say they do it without problems, and if you want to try it you're more than welcome, but those of us that know how memory management works recommend against it, very strongly.

Win2K and XP won't let you run without one, if you set it to 0 it'll be recreated and the OS will politely tell you to set a real size. I've heard of ways to really disable it, but if you have to fight it that much to get it disabled you should probably rethink whether you should be doing it or not.

And NT expects a pagefile for certain operations, some very important things like memory mapped files get their backing store from the page file and if it's not there there's no telling what might happen.

 

[bacillus]

just a little OT here but you appear to have WindowsXP PRO twice in your sig!

 

[Think]

Do you suggest creating a disc partition for the swap file as well?

I'm curious to see how others have partitioned there system.

 

[Nothinman]

Do you suggest creating a disc partition for the swap file as well?

Not necessarily a dedicated one. As long as you create the pagefile as soon as the disk partition is created and formatted it'll be at the very beginning and contiguous, and as long as you don't f' with it it'll stay that way.

 

[Think]

Not necessarily a dedicated one. As long as you create the pagefile as soon as the disk partition is created and formatted it'll be at the very beginning and contiguous, and as long as you don't f' with it it'll stay that way.

How can I determine if the pagefile has been set at the beginning of the drive?


What about installing other programs, such as Windows Office, Roxio, Photosuite, etc. Would you recommend setting up those programs on the second partition that was created or just install it with the operating system on the primary partition and use the other partition for pictures, video, music?

Sorry for all the questions, but I really want to do a good job of this.

 

[Nothinman]

How can I determine if the pagefile has been set at the beginning of the drive?

Any defrag tool should show you were the pagefile is.

What about installing other programs, such as Windows Office, Roxio, Photosuite, etc. Would you recommend setting up those programs on the second partition that was created or just install it with the operating system on the primary partition and use the other partition for pictures, video, music?

I have a seperate drive (physical) for programs but that's because the few programs I use in Windows don't need reinstalled if I reinstall Windows. For programs that do need reinstalled if I reinstall Windows I put them on the same drive as Windows.

Sorry for all the questions, but I really want to do a good job of this.

Most of it is organizational personal preferance, really.

 

[Think]

How about this before I proceed?:

c - 20 for operating system and applications including Roxio, Office, Photoshop
d - 1.5 swap file(page file; I have over a gig in ram)
e and f - remaining 45+Gigs for pictures, videos, music and any other data for back up, just in case I have to reinstall the OS and applications.

I figure that all of my applications will need to be re-installed anyway if I get any corruption so it doesn't make sense to allow just enough for the OS.

You first mentioned that its not necessary to create a dedicated partition for the page file but then mention that it's not necessary if you HAVE created a page file as soon as the partition is created; i'm a little confused my this. Do I, or don't I create a partition for the page filing?

The e and f drives will be partitioned just for ease of defragementation.

What do you think?

I did a search on several sites about this topic without nailing a positive perspective on the appropriate way of setting this up. Not even a HOW TO on the main site here or at other tech sites....rather odd, I think!

 

[Nothinman]

You first mentioned that its not necessary to create a dedicated partition for the page file but then mention that it's not necessary if you HAVE created a page file as soon as the partition is created; i'm a little confused my this. Do I, or don't I create a partition for the page filing?


All I meant was that it's not necessary to dedicate a whole partition just to the page file, some people would create a say 500M partition to hold their 500M page file.

Also if you have multiple physical disks it's supposed to help if you split the pagefile up among them, because Windows will use them in a round-robin fashion sort of like mini-RAID for your pagefile.

I did a search on several sites about this topic without nailing a positive perspective on the appropriate way of setting this up. Not even a HOW TO on the main site here or at other tech sites....rather odd, I think!

Because like I said it's almost totally personal preferance, set it up the way that makes organizational sense to you.

 

[Think]

Thanks for your help nothinman. Since that you're the only one around

Much appreciated

 

[SUOrangeman]

ARGH! I had about 1 page of text typed in response, and the page refreshed. Excuse me while I hit something.

Anyhoo, I have 512MB and rarely expect that something will really need to swap out. However, I still have a 1GB C: drive which I have dedicated to swap space and temp files. I have set each of my Windows installations (WinME, Win2K, and WinXP) to use the same swap file (since I cannot run more that one OS at a time), with a minimum size of 128MB and let Windows handle the rest. After 5 months (system was built around Labor Day), my swap file is still 128MB.

The fact is, poorly-written code still exists, and some of it insists on using swap space. If you've heard of defense driving, consider intelligent use of swap files as "defensive computing." (<- I have just coined a buzz word. I am applying for the trademark/copyright.)

Another thing I wanted to mention is that I see absolutely ZERO NEED to separate apps from the OS. Sure, it sounds like it might be helpful, but when the OS goes kaput, you STILL HAVE TO REINSTALL THE APPS to guarantee ful functionality. Again, I realize that crappy code exists and that such code can ruin a system. I just don't think that a separate apps partition will protect you that much.

BTW, \Program Files will always exist on the same partition as \Windows (or \Winnt). The only way you can prevent that is with a script file BEFORE installation (never tried it myself). Within \Program Files there is \Common Files. Adobe and Symantec love to put stuff in the Common Files area. Heck, Symantec will even make a \Program Files\Symantec directory for LiveUpdate and some of their other code ... EVEN IF YOU INDICATE OTHERWISE!!! So, no matter how much you try to separate apps from the OS, something is very likely to slip through. Doesn't ATi still like to put everything in C:\ATI (regardless of what C: is!)?

I post/e-mail an old version of my dissertation on partitioning if desired. It is in dire need of an update before it will be posted as an AnandTech FAQ.

-SUO

 

[Think]

SUOrangeman

Hmmm.

So, if I set a C partition for say 1.5G and designate my page filing, temp to that area; then that would be at the very beginning of the drive.

Ok then, how about:

1st partition: c:\ = 1.5 for page filing and temps
2nd partition: d:\= 15 gigs for all applications
Remainder :e\= 90 + gigs for storage

Set my page filing for a minimum of 128 as well and let Windows XP manage the rest.

Sound ok?

 

[Nothinman]

I see absolutely ZERO NEED to separate apps from the OS. Sure, it sounds like it might be helpful, but when the OS goes kaput, you STILL HAVE TO REINSTALL THE APPS to guarantee ful functionality. Again, I realize that crappy code exists and that such code can ruin a system. I just don't think that a separate apps partition will protect you that much.

Like I said almost all of my apps run fine without a reinstall, some need reconfigured (like Mozilla) but they work fine.

Set my page filing for a minimum of 128 as well and let Windows XP manage the rest.

I always set mine to the same max and min size, because if it does happen to grow it won't get fragmented.

 

[SUOrangeman]

Think-

Why 1.5GB? Sounds a bit much. I've used 512MB in the past with ease, but found myself with an occasional 500+ MB ISO file in my Internet cache (I put that on C: as well). So, I upped it to 1GB. Right now, I'm using just under 500MB because I have some files that I've unzipped and haven't cleared out.

OS and apps go on D:.


Nothinman-

Uhh, if page file size min=max, then it won't grow! The fact that you've limited it to a partition essentially to itself should be enough of a constraint. No need to worry about setting the max. Besides, if you have enough RAM (say, more than 256MB), I doubt a fragmented page file will become an issue.

And, if you have any apps thatheavily rely on the registry, then you are much better off reinstalling these apps after reinstalling the OS. If you haven't had to reinstall apps because you have them on a separate partition and they*seem*, consider yourself lucky. I don't think that is typical behavior.

-SUO

 

[Nothinman]

Uhh, if page file size min=max, then it won't grow! The fact that you've limited it to a partition essentially to itself should be enough of a constraint. No need to worry about setting the max. Besides, if you have enough RAM (say, more than 256MB), I doubt a fragmented page file will become an issue.

Yea, I worded that poorly. What I meant to convey was that making a seperate partition for a pagefile is pointless, just put it on a different disk than the OS and set the min=max sizes so it won't grow and fragment.

If you haven't had to reinstall apps because you have them on a separate partition and they*seem*, consider yourself lucky. I don't think that is typical behavior.

I use very few apps in Windows because I spend most of my time in Linux. All I really use in it is Mozilla (after a reinstall 1 or 2 step wizard runs to pick profile directory), mIRC (everything is in the ini files) and some video post-processing apps like VirtualDub that are very self-contained.

 

[Think]

Well, that makes a little more sense for page filing. Never did like the idea of setting up a seperate partition just for that.

This is what I'm going to do:

6G for OS, Office and a few other programs that I use
10G for gaming
20G for music, video, etc

...and I'll leave the rest for whatever I need

I'm also going to pick up Partition Magic to give me some flexibility on implementing and changing the design.

 

[CQuinn]

<< but when the OS goes kaput, you STILL HAVE TO REINSTALL THE APPS to guarantee full functionality >>



You can also minimize the impact of that by using utilities like Drive Image or Ghost to backup a working image
of the boot system, and establishing a periodic backup process for the apps and data. If the OS goes kaput,
you only need to restore and reinstall apps changed since the last image.

 

[aceline]

I can understand a separate partition for a page file, however, MS has stated that using multiple partitions in XP (unlike Win 9.X) will not allow the built-in (behind-the-scenes) function of XP's data/hard disk organization. XP supposedly moves consistently used data to 'the front' of the disk to improve application and data access speed. It only works on the same partition as the OS - so having multiple partitions does not allow the OS to operate as efficiently as it might with one large partition.

I received this info at an MS seminar for system builders. If anyone has heard differently, please let me know.

 

[Think]

<< I can understand a separate partition for a page file, however, MS has stated that using multiple partitions in XP (unlike Win 9.X) will not allow the built-in (behind-the-scenes) function of XP's data/hard disk organization. XP supposedly moves consistently used data to 'the front' of the disk to improve application and data access speed. It only works on the same partition as the OS - so having multiple partitions does not allow the OS to operate as efficiently as it might with one large partition.

I received this info at an MS seminar for system builders. If anyone has heard differently, please let me know. >>





:QNO KIDDING...great, time to do some more homework...dang it all:frown:

 

[millsy]

ideally you should have a Pagefile on every HD.
Otherwise try and not put one with the OS files.
You will not notice much difference whatever you do though, espically with the fast HD and RAM these days.