Passage of the ACHA Lays Bare The Hatred and Contempt in The Hearts of GOP Voters

[CountZero]

Trump is starting to see the light. He tweeted that they should just repeal and worry about replace later. If you do this you could possibly get some democrats on board. That should have been plan a.

Not how I see it at all.

From a deal making perspective that tweet is kind of a disaster. Before it was a meeting to get common ground from the moderate and extreme ends of the party. Now he's laid bare the intent that if the extreme end just says no they get exactly what they want, full repeal.

Full repeal with a plan to put "something" in place in a year is a guarantee that the exchanges completely collapse, the current uncertainty has already eroded some of it a future repeal will destroy them.

It also gives 100% of the power to the extreme end of the party in negotiating. The worst that happens as far as they are concerned is ACA goes away forever. They lose their long term cuts to medicaid via block grants and tying it to regular inflation instead of medical but they will get so much that is marginal.

Maybe it could lead to Reps reaching across to Dems in order to shut out the extreme ends of the parties but that seems highly unlikely. They could technically do that now and some moderate Dems might go along under the fact that it is better to negotiate the future of the ACA than it is to wait for Reps to give in the their extreme end but so far the Reps have let bills die instead of even entertaining the thought of bipartisan support.

 

[buckshot24]

and unless you cut those people off (poor people and others on Medicaid) and keep them from obtaining care unless they are paying (either in cash or with upfront insurance), you'll still end up paying for them and in many cases, more than you would have (they go to the ER) otherwise. Put universal healthcare in, fund it with a sales tax or the likes and put everyone's skin in the game. Otherwise, the people paying for insurance are paying for everyone...those with Medicaid (taxes) and those without anything who can't / won't pay (via higher prices as the medical professionals pass the write offs to you).

I think you can deal with the poor people more efficiently by dealing with them separately.

 

[Engineer]

I think you can deal with the poor people more efficiently by dealing with them separately.

What about those that choose not to buy coverage and then won't or can't pay the bill when they really need care? Turn them away? That's the only way you're going to succeed (if you can call it that) unless you force them to have coverage (either private insurance or national healthcare) to pay for their care, make them pay upfront or simply turn them away.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

I don't see how this is "seeing the light" in any sane, rational world. In Buckshitland, though, it's because he's specifically said he wants government entire OUT of healthcare and a pure free-market solution.

He also said he doesn't want anyone dying due to lack of healthcare.

Hmm.

And yet, when I asked him (asking again, @buckshot24!) if he understands what "free-market solution" means in the context of a good or service with a damn-near inelastic demand curve, he...didn't answer.

Hmmmmm.

 

[buckshot24]

What about those that choose not to buy coverage and then won't or can't pay the bill when they really need care? Turn them away? That's the only way you're going to succeed (if you can call it that) unless you force them to have coverage (either private insurance or national healthcare) to pay for their care, make them pay upfront or simply turn them away.

Bad choices should have bad consequences or you're going to end up with more bad choices, right? Health care is too expensive. Having third parties paying for goods cause those prices to increase. Unavoidable. Instead of overturning the entire market because of people who can't afford the services or choose not to protect themselves why not subsidize those unpaid hospital bills? Would be a lot cheaper.

 

[Engineer]

Bad choices should have bad consequences or you're going to end up with more bad choices, right? Health care is too expensive. Having third parties paying for goods cause those prices to increase. Unavoidable. Instead of overturning the entire market because of people who can't afford the services or choose not to protect themselves why not subsidize those unpaid hospital bills? Would be a lot cheaper.

You do subsidize them....that's why aspirin costs $100 per pill. Think about it. Like I said above, the people working (and buying insurance) are paying for EVERYONE (else too). There's no magic to this. Either you force people to pay for some of their service and put a cap on service prices or you get what we have....one of the highest cost per capita healthcare systems in the world that doesn't even cover everyone.

 

[buckshot24]

You do subsidize them....that's why aspirin costs $100 per pill. Think about it. Like I said above, the people working (and buying insurance) are paying for EVERYONE (else too). There's no magic to this. Either you force people to pay for some of their service and put a cap on service prices or you get what we have....one of the highest cost per capita healthcare systems in the world that doesn't even cover everyone.

Let me be clearer. Have the government pay for unpaid emergency room visits.

 

[JSt0rm]

Let me be clearer. Have the government pay for unpaid emergency room visits.

You think that is efficient?

 

[buckshot24]

You think that is efficient?

More efficient than having the federal government control 100% of the health market.

 

[Engineer]

Let me be clearer. Have the government pay for unpaid emergency room visits.

and you (and I and everyone else paying taxes) is the government. You're still paying like I said earlier. The person receiving care isn't unless they are paying tax and more specifically, a tax for healthcare.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Lol, think about it.....lol.....

 

[JSt0rm]

More efficient than having the federal government control 100% of the health market.

We have the most expensive healthcare in the world as is. Countries that have 100% control of the healthcare market by the government pay significantly less. Basically your gut is wrong.

 

[JSt0rm]

Lol, think about it.....lol.....

buckshit is for single payer healthcare but only emergency rooms. So stupid.

 

[buckshot24]

and you (and I and everyone else paying taxes) is the government. You're still paying like I said earlier. The person receiving care isn't unless they are paying tax and more specifically, a tax for healthcare.

Tax payers aren't paying for all the government spends, we're 20 trillion in debt. Compared to the alternative, paying 40ish billion for unpaid hospital bills is a bargain.

 

[Jhhnn]

I think you can deal with the poor people more efficiently by dealing with them separately.

It's a lot easier to forget 'em that way.

 

[Engineer]

Tax payers aren't paying for all the government spends, we're 20 trillion in debt. Compared to the alternative, paying 40ish billion for unpaid hospital bills is a bargain.

The who pays for that debt? Who pays the interest? So you're OK with simply borrowing more money to give people healthcare? Well hell, why not borrow money for EVERYTHING and give the rest of us working stiffs our tax money back for everything?

I thought that conservatives were anti debt / deficit in government?

 

[buckshot24]

We have the most expensive healthcare in the world as is. Countries that have 100% control of the healthcare market by the government pay significantly less. Basically your gut is wrong.

It isn't "my gut" it is basic supply and demand. Pump the market with cash and prices go up.

buckshit is for single payer healthcare but only emergency rooms. So stupid.

I'm addressing one of his concerns. It would be cheaper and more efficient to just pay hospital bills of those who can't pay. I'm not "for" this either.

 

[Engineer]

It isn't "my gut" it is basic supply and demand. Pump the market with cash and prices go up.
I'm addressing one of his concerns. It would be cheaper and more efficient to just pay hospital bills of those who can't pay. I'm not "for" this either.

As other countries have proven, it would be cheaper and more efficient to just scrap the whole private insurance system and go to UHC but what do those dumbasses know?

 

[buckshot24]

The who pays for that debt? Who pays the interest? So you're OK with simply borrowing more money to give people healthcare? Well hell, why not borrow money for EVERYTHING and give the rest of us working stiffs our tax money back for everything?

I thought that conservatives were anti debt / deficit in government?

Why is stating reality somehow indicate that I'm for continuing it? It would be cheaper to simply pay the hospital bills of those who can't pay than to overhaul our entire health care system to help the 10-20% who can't buy it.

 

[Engineer]

Why is stating reality somehow indicate that I'm for continuing it? It would be cheaper to simply pay the hospital bills of those who can't pay than to overhaul our entire health care system to help the 10-20% who can't buy it.

I say it would be cheaper and more efficient to take it all over and pay it all (the rest of the industrialized world agrees and has 'proof' that it works - in per capita spending to cover EVERYONE). No more CEO and high executive pays, not more bill collectors, no more hundreds of insurance companies to deal with, no more people losing their homes and possessions because they have no (or shitty) coverage.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Waaaaaitwaitwaitwait, did Buckyball just argue for single payer for anyone too poor to buy private insurance!

Fucking Communist, LOL! What would Jesus sa--oh wait, Jesus was the one going around giving away free healthcare to the poor. Wow. Buckshit accidentally did something consistent with his supposed religion.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

It isn't "my gut" it is basic supply and demand. Pump the market with cash and prices go up.
I'm addressing one of his concerns. It would be cheaper and more efficient to just pay hospital bills of those who can't pay. I'm not "for" this either.

Are you actually thinking that healthcare is a 'supply/demand' type of market?

 

[Engineer]

Waaaaaitwaitwaitwait, did Buckyball just argue for single payer for anyone too poor to buy private insurance!

Fucking Communist, LOL! What would Jesus sa--oh wait, Jesus was the one going around giving away free healthcare to the poor. Wow. Buckshit accidentally did something consistent with his supposed religion.

Well, he did say he's not FOR IT but that it would be more efficient and cheaper.

 

[buckshot24]

I say it would be cheaper and more efficient to take it all over and pay it all (the rest of the industrialized world agrees and has 'proof' that it works - in per capita spending to cover EVERYONE). No more CEO and high executive pays, not more bill collectors, no more hundreds of insurance companies to deal with, no more people losing their homes and possessions because they have no (or shitty) coverage.

How is spending 3.2 trillion dollars cheaper?

 

[Bowfinger]

It isn't "my gut" it is basic supply and demand. Pump the market with cash and prices go up.

As others have pointed out, "basic supply and demand" doesn't work well when the demand is relatively inelastic. Lacking aggressive price controls, it's a recipe for for price gouging and ever skyrocketing costs. It's not a coincidence that this is exactly what has happened in our profit-driven healthcare system.

More importantly, for anyone who actually cares about his fellow man, your approach to reducing demand works only to the extent it increases human suffering and death. People who are priced out of the healthcare market don't magically become well. They become more sick. and many will die unnecessarily.

We are the wealthiest country in the world. We are also purportedly a civilized country. This means we have both the financial ability and the moral obligation to take care of those who cannot take care of themselves.


Edit: typo