Pat Tillman Not A Hero

kermalou

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2001
6,237
0
0
moronic

When the death of Pat Tillman occurred, I turned to my friend who was watching the news with me and said, "How much you want to bet they start talking about him as a 'hero' in about two hours?" Of course, my friend did not want to make that bet. He'd lose. In this self-critical incapable nation, nothing but a knee-jerk "He's a hero" response is to be expected.

I've been mystified at the absolute nonsense of being in "awe" of Tillman's "sacrifice" that has been the American response. Mystified, but not surprised. True, it's not everyday that you forgo a $3.6 million contract for joining the military. And, not just the regular army, but the elite Army Rangers. You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the "real" thick of things. I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. Well, he got his wish. Even Rambo got shot in the third movie, but in real life, you die as a result of being shot. They should call Pat Tillman's army life "Rambo 4: Rambo Attempts to Strike Back at His Former Rambo 3 Taliban Friends, and Gets Killed."

But, does that make him a hero? I guess it's a matter of perspective. For people in the United States, who seem to be unable to admit the stupidity of both the Afghanistan and Iraqi wars, such a trade-off in life standards (if not expectancy) is nothing short of heroic. Obviously, the man must be made of "stronger stuff" to have had decided to "serve" his country rather than take from it. It's the old JFK exhortation to citizen service to the nation, and it seems to strike an emotional chord. So, it's understandable why Americans automatically knee-jerk into hero worship.

However, in my neighborhood in Puerto Rico, Tillman would have been called a "pendejo," an idiot. Tillman, in the absurd belief that he was defending or serving his all-powerful country from a seventh-rate, Third World nation devastated by the previous conflicts it had endured, decided to give up a comfortable life to place himself in a combat situation that cost him his life. This was not "Ramon or Tyrone," who joined the military out of financial necessity, or to have a chance at education. This was a "G.I. Joe" guy who got what was coming to him. That was not heroism, it was prophetic idiocy.

Tillman, probably acting out his nationalist-patriotic fantasies forged in years of exposure to Clint Eastwood and Rambo movies, decided to insert himself into a conflict he didn't need to insert himself into. It wasn't like he was defending the East coast from an invasion of a foreign power. THAT would have been heroic and laudable. What he did was make himself useful to a foreign invading army, and he paid for it. It's hard to say I have any sympathy for his death because I don't feel like his "service" was necessary. He wasn't defending me, nor was he defending the Afghani people. He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in.

Perhaps it's the old, dreamy American thought process that forces them to put sports greats and "larger than life" sacrificial lambs on the pedestal of heroism, no matter what they've done. After all, the American nation has no other role to play but to be the cheerleaders of the home team; a sad role to have to play during conflicts that suffer from severe legitimacy and credibility problems.

Matters are a little clearer for those living outside the American borders. Tillman got himself killed in a country other than his own without having been forced to go over to that country to kill its people. After all, whether we like them or not, the Taliban is more Afghani than we are. Their resistance is more legitimate than our invasion, regardless of the fact that our social values are probably more enlightened than theirs. For that, he shouldn't be hailed as a hero, he should be used as a poster boy for the dangerous consequences of too much "America is #1," frat boy, propaganda bull. It might just make a regular man irrationally drop $3.6 million to go fight in a conflict that was anything but "self-defense." The same could be said of the unusual belief of 50 percent of the American nation that thinks Saddam Hussein was behind Sept. 11. One must indeed stand in awe of the amazing success of the American propaganda machine. It works wonders.

Al-Qaeda won't be defeated in Afghanistan, even if we did kill all their operatives there. Only through careful and logical changing of the underlying conditions that allow for the ideology to foster will Al-Qaeda be defeated. Ask the Israelis if 50 years of blunt force have eradicated the Palestinian resistance. For that reason, Tillman's service, along with that of thousands of American soldiers, has been wrongly utilized. He did die in vain, because in the years to come, we will realize the irrationality of the War on Terror and the American reaction to Sept. 11. The sad part is that we won't realize it before we send more people like Pat Tillman over to their deaths.

Rene Gonzalez is a UMass graduate student.
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
6
81
Wow - what a tool this "Rene Gonzalez" is. Not much of a surprise though - just another graduate student trying to get their name out by making a ridiculous article just to piss people off.
 

Ynog

Golden Member
Oct 9, 2002
1,782
1
0
Originally posted by: DougK62
Wow - what a tool this "Rene Gonzalez" is. Not much of a surprise though - just another graduate student trying to get their name out by making a ridiculous article just to piss people off.
 

z0mb13

Lifer
May 19, 2002
18,106
1
76
tilman is a hero

but other combatants that die in the war are no less hero than tilman
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Edited for correction... Just noticed that you only posted the text. Sorry kermalou

The fact that Pat Tillman was a pro athlete and gave up his high paying NFL career to serve in the military is amazing. What's even more amazing is that he did it without any fanfare whatsoever. He had numerous opportunities for interviews and stories and he turned them all down because he didn't want any media attention simply because he was a former pro athlete. He didn't want to be treated special. In doing so I think his death put a name to the sacrifices of war. That these reports we hear on the news and read in the paper of soliders killed are not just statistics but real men and women who had families and lives.

I've never served my country and although I was of age where I registered for the draft I was lucky enough to have done so in an era where I was never called to duty. That said, I feel I and every other non-veteran citizen of the US owes the men and women of our military a big "Thank You" for their service. To read about some *PUNK* like Gonzalez trying to get attention by lessening Tillman's or any other soldiers death is sickening. It's sad that the freedom he enjoys was paid for with the blood of those he has no respect for.

Piss on you Rene Gonzalez... :disgust: :|
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
Originally posted by: DougK62
Wow - what a tool this "Rene Gonzalez" is. Not much of a surprise though - just another graduate student trying to get their name out by making a ridiculous article just to piss people off.

yeap.
 

theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
5,745
3
81
However, in my neighborhood in Puerto Rico...

i stopped reading there. puerto rico? please...the last thing i'm going to do is subject myself to the ramblings of a person from a parasite territory that relies on our protection yet spits back our efforts.


=|
 
Jun 18, 2000
11,140
722
126
But, does that make him a hero? I guess it's a matter of perspective. For people in the United States, who seem to be unable to admit the stupidity of both the Afghanistan and Iraqi wars...
Stopped reading right here. If you aren't going to build a argument objectively, I'm not going to waste my time reading it.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
He wasn't an idiot, but I agree that he wasn't a hero either.
 

mattlear

Senior member
Jun 2, 2000
349
0
76
While I applaud the concept of free speech, I think this gonzalez guy is a freaking tool.

That's like the folks who burn flags in the US and then say "it's my constitutional right!".

Macho, patriotic crap... unbelievable.

I'm sure this clown is going to get some threats up at school. And I'm sure the school will assign some "patriotic rambo" to protecting him and provide security.

I know there are thousands of other young men and women who gave their lives to protect the U.S. and it's freedoms. Pat Tillman just happened to be more high profile because he walked away from millions and from a lucrative future to do something he believed in. That does not lessen his sacrifice, nor does being impressed by it lessen those who had "less" who also lost their lives.

Mr Gonzalez, you are a moron.

-Matt
 

Amorphus

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2003
5,561
1
0
This kid has no idea what the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are about, he has no concept of self-sacrifice and service, and he has no honor. Taking anything this fool says to heart would be like following a butcher to his kitchen.
 

PanzerIV

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2002
6,875
1
0
Originally posted by: Robor
kermalou = moronic


He's not the one who wrote the story he just posted it.

As for the original writer what a dumb f^cker. I'd like to write something more eloquently that captures what I think about him but I think that about sums it up.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,856
1,048
126
He dropped the opportunity to play a game he loved his entire life which also would've paid him $3 mil over the next few years. Even if you forget about that... he did it just to fight for his country because he felt the country's pain when we were hit. I don't know what else I would call him if not a hero among the other brave souls who help defend us and our future so willingly.

If he were so gung-ho as Rambo, why didn't he join the army instead of playing football to begin with ? Pat Tillman did it for an honorable reason. It's the media that's really at fault... something Tillman didn't want to happen in the first place.

Rene Gonzalez should've experienced 9/11 up closer.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
He makes a lot of arguments, some of which are difficult to agree with but
When the death of Pat Tillman occurred, I turned to my friend who was watching the news with me and said, "How much you want to bet they start talking about him as a 'hero' in about two hours?" Of course, my friend did not want to make that bet. He'd lose. In this self-critical incapable nation, nothing but a knee-jerk "He's a hero" response is to be expected.

I've been mystified at the absolute nonsense of being in "awe" of Tillman's "sacrifice" that has been the American response. Mystified, but not surprised.
I agree with wholeheartedly. As with any such take on one's death when their death is lamented to such a degree it automatically lowers the significance of others' deaths. The real reason we're hearing more about tillman is because he was a football star and that's it. There are dozens of guys dead in Iraq who were heroes too. And I also don't think somebody is a hero just for dying in a war. When I talk of heroism I'm not using the feel-good bs definition of the media, but rather something like "A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life". And going off to war and dying does not simply make one a hero, though I've no doubt some of those soldiers are - like the dude I heard about who got himself killed trying to save some children recently. Now that's admirable.

Having read the rest of this man's statement I'm inclined to say "he has a point". Not that I agree with them all, but at least it's refreshing, and not that far from the truth.

BTW I don't agree with it all. I'm glad that the US put some smack down in afghanistan and iraq. And for that you need soldiers, of course. So I don't think this guy wasted his life, nor are those over there dying now wasting theirs.
 

chrisms

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2003
6,615
0
0
I won't completely disagree with someone who says that Pat Tillman's death is recieving too much coverage by the media, and that he should be treated the same as any other soldier (as was his own wish).

But this is one of those situations where you don't voice your opinion about it in a newspaper or any other widely viewed medium. What the author of this piece did was spit on the recent death of an American soldier. Tillman didn't ask for this coverage, so don't publicly insult his sacrifice because it was given to him. The worst part of this whole article is where Gonzalez explains in detail, based only on assumption, why Tillman joined the Army and died.
 

Gravity

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2003
5,685
0
0
Originally posted by: DougK62
Wow - what a tool this "Rene Gonzalez" is. Not much of a surprise though - just another graduate student trying to get their name out by making a ridiculous article just to piss people off.

Yup.
 
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