Pat Tillman's Brother Kevin

[Perknose]

And what he has to say is as passionate as it is damning:

PHOENIX -- The brother of an NFL player who was killed in Afghanistan after quitting the team to join the U.S. Army Rangers has broken his silence.

What really happened when Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire in 2004? A three-part E-ticket investigation in July sought answers.

Kevin Tillman, a former Army Ranger who served in Iraq and Afghanistan with his older brother, Pat Tillman, has remained silent since his brother's death in 2004. But this week, he wrote a scathing indictment of the war in Iraq, the Bush administration and American apathy.

"Somehow, the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes," Kevin wrote on Truthdig.com, which purchased his work.

The brothers, both Arizona State University graduates, joined the Army in response to the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. They served together as Rangers with the 2nd Battalion of the 75th Ranger Regiment.

Pat Tillman, who played defensive back for the Arizona Cardinals, was killed by friendly fire near the Pakistan-Afghanistan border in April 2004. The Defense Department is investigating allegations of a cover-up, including failure by the U.S. Army to tell Tillman's family for several weeks that he had been killed by gunfire from his fellow Army Rangers, not by enemy fire as they initially were told.

Kevin Tillman has not spoken publicly about the war or his brother's death since his discharge from the Army. But in Truthdig.com, Kevin wrote openly about the war and America's response to it.

"Somehow, the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country. Somehow, this is tolerated. Somehow, nobody is accountable for this."

After playing for the ASU Sun Devils, Pat Tillman was drafted by the Arizona Cardinals in 1998. He played with the team for four years.

On Sept. 12, 2001, he gave an interview in which he talked about how "stupid" football seemed relative to world events.

"At times like this, you stop and think about not only how good we have it but what kind of system we live under," he said. "My great-grandfather was at Pearl Harbor. And a lot of my family has gone and fought in wars. And I really haven't done a ... thing as far as laying myself on the line like that."

Pat was on the verge of signing another contract with the Cardinals in the spring of 2002 when he decided to join the Army instead.

The Tillmans were initially sent to Iraq as part of Operation Iraqi Freedom. In 2003, the brothers returned to the States for training to become Army Rangers. After that, they were sent to Afghanistan.

What can I possibly add to what he's said?

 

[Pabster]

"Kevin wrote on Truthdig.com, which purchased his work."

Truthdig is a well known left extremist site.

Form your own opinions on his writings, just know the credibility (or, in this case, lack of) of the source.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Pabster
"Kevin wrote on Truthdig.com, which purchased his work."

Truthdig is a well known left extremist site.

Form your own opinions on his writings, just know the credibility (or, in this case, lack of) of the source.

If the quote from Kevin Tillman is accurate, his credibility is the only thing you can question. The source has nothing to do with it.

Keven Tillman is a former Army Ranger who served in Iraq and Afghanistan with his older brother, Pat. Unless you've done the same, he's put more on the line than you have in your wildest neocon fantasies, and it's your credibility that's highly questionable. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Harvey
If the quote from Kevin Tillman is accurate, his credibility is the only thing you can question. The source has nothing to do with it.

You obviously didn't read what I wrote.

Keven Tillman is a former Army Ranger who served in Iraq and Afghanistan with his older brother, Pat. Unless you've done the same, he's put more on the line than you have in your wildest neocon fantasies, and it's your credibility that's highly questionable. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

I was simply pointing out that A) this appears on a well known left extremist web site; and B) Kevin was paid for his work. This wasn't just an op-ed piece written to a local paper or something of that sort.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Harvey
If the quote from Kevin Tillman is accurate, his credibility is the only thing you can question. The source has nothing to do with it.

You obviously didn't read what I wrote.

Keven Tillman is a former Army Ranger who served in Iraq and Afghanistan with his older brother, Pat. Unless you've done the same, he's put more on the line than you have in your wildest neocon fantasies, and it's your credibility that's highly questionable. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

I was simply pointing out that A) this appears on a well known left extremist web site; and B) Kevin was paid for his work. This wasn't just an op-ed piece written to a local paper or something of that sort.

So, because an Army Ranger was paid to write something means HE IS A LYING LEFTY PIECE OF ******.. that is what you think of lefty's right? they are just worthless pieces of ******. .right?

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

R

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
R

in off-topic or here?

If here you can bet the neocons and righties ignored it hoping it would drop to the bottom of the pile

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: dahunan
So, because an Army Ranger was paid to write something means HE IS A LYING LEFTY PIECE OF ******.. that is what you think of lefty's right? they are just worthless pieces of ******. .right?

Did I say that?

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Harvey
If the quote from Kevin Tillman is accurate, his credibility is the only thing you can question. The source has nothing to do with it.

You obviously didn't read what I wrote.

Keven Tillman is a former Army Ranger who served in Iraq and Afghanistan with his older brother, Pat. Unless you've done the same, he's put more on the line than you have in your wildest neocon fantasies, and it's your credibility that's highly questionable. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

I was simply pointing out that A) this appears on a well known left extremist web site; and B) Kevin was paid for his work. This wasn't just an op-ed piece written to a local paper or something of that sort.

Your reading comprehension seriously sucks. Harvey said the only thing you can really question is Kevin's credibility. What do you say? That Harvey didn't read what you wrote and that Kevin's credibility is in question because of the source and that he was paid.

So what's in question in both yours and Harvey's statements? His credibility.

 

[her209]

The article in question

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
R

in off-topic or here?

If here you can bet the neocons and righties ignored it hoping it would drop to the bottom of the pile

Riight... Cause you guys never let topics that rub you the wrong way fall to the bottom. :roll:

That said, I was too quick with the R. I thought this was his Op Ed piece that was linked to here a few days ago. Nope.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Pabster
You obviously didn't read what I wrote.
.
.
I was simply pointing out that A) this appears on a well known left extremist web site; and B) Kevin was paid for his work. This wasn't just an op-ed piece written to a local paper or something of that sort.

I read exactly what you wrote. You questioned the reliability of the source, truthdig.com, and you appear to question Kevin Tillman's words because he was paid for the article.

Perknose's link goes to an AP article on espn.com that, in turn, reports and comments on Tillman's article. I don't see anything in the AP article questioning the accuracy of either the accuracy or authenticity of Tillman's actual statements or anything else in or about the truthdig article.

I don't think I missed anything, but I'm sure you'll post another lame, vain attempt to discredit Tillman, truthdig.com, Perknose and me. :roll:

 

[ProfJohn]

Let's just quote what Harvey said in a thread about a vet who made a speech in favor of staying in Iraq until the job was done.
Link

Originally posted by: Harvey
No, but the fact that they're vets doesn't give either of them them a free pass to around critical evaluation of their views.

and look how he characterized the speaker in that post...

Wade Zirkle, the vet who wrote the article and is the founder and Executive Director of the Vets for Freedom Action Fund, a bipartisan political action group supporting pro-military, pro-mission policymakers in the war on terror.

So we have one for the war and one against the war, next vet thread please.

I am kind of surprised that his rhetoric is so partisan and out of the mainstream though.
The statement "the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country. " is something normally reserved for the kooks of the left who have never served, not a Vet like Tillman. Some of the things he says are right out of the wacko anti-war play book. It is a shame he lost his brother, and he has a right to say whatever he wants, but comments like his don't deserve half the attention they have been given. If his brother wasn't a NFL star this guy would be sharing a stage with Cindy Sheehan and no one would be paying attention.

Also, remember his brother died in Afghanistan, the war that nearly everyone supports. So he can complain about Iraq all he wants, even if we had not gone into Iraq his brother would still be dead.

Here is the article from truthdig Link

Check this out

So don?t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity.

Did Harvey write this for him?

 

[shurato]

Who wrote this article? The website or Pat's brother who served in the Iraq war? That's about all the credibility you need.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Let's just quote what Harvey said in a thread about a vet who made a speech in favor of staying in Iraq until the job was done.
Link

Originally posted by: Harvey
No, but the fact that they're vets doesn't give either of them them a free pass to around critical evaluation of their views.

and look how he characterized the speaker in that post...

Wade Zirkle, the vet who wrote the article and is the founder and Executive Director of the Vets for Freedom Action Fund, a bipartisan political action group supporting pro-military, pro-mission policymakers in the war on terror.

So we have one for the war and one against the war, next vet thread please.

I am kind of surprised that his rhetoric is so partisan and out of the mainstream though.
The statement "the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country. " is something normally reserved for the kooks of the left who have never served, not a Vet like Tillman. Some of the things he says are right out of the wacko anti-war play book. It is a shame he lost his brother, and he has a right to say whatever he wants, but comments like his don't deserve half the attention they have been given. If his brother wasn't a NFL star this guy would be sharing a stage with Cindy Sheehan and no one would be paying attention.

Also, remember his brother died in Afghanistan, the war that nearly everyone supports. So he can complain about Iraq all he wants, even if we had not gone into Iraq his brother would still be dead.

Here is the article from truthdig Link

Check this out

So don?t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity.

Did Harvey write this for him?

It may surprise you that Vets are often the most Anti-War people you will find.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Let's just quote what Harvey said in a thread about a vet who made a speech in favor of staying in Iraq until the job was done.
Link

Originally posted by: Harvey
No, but the fact that they're vets doesn't give either of them them a free pass to around critical evaluation of their views.

and look how he characterized the speaker in that post...

Wade Zirkle, the vet who wrote the article and is the founder and Executive Director of the Vets for Freedom Action Fund, a bipartisan political action group supporting pro-military, pro-mission policymakers in the war on terror.

So we have one for the war and one against the war, next vet thread please.

[/quote]
PrevaricatorJohn -- Thanks for helping me make the point. I never said anyone should not critically evaluate Pat Tillman's or Wade Zirkle's statements. I'll be glad to leave it to others to do so. In both cases, I posted links to them, or there were already direct links to the articles so it was pretty easy to do, and I think most rational people would come to the same conclusion I did about them.

I am kind of surprised that his rhetoric is so partisan and out of the mainstream though.

Only if you consider well over 60% of the American public "out of the mainstream." :roll:

I'd have used the laugh icon to point out how truly stupid your statement was if the subject matter, itself, wasn't so tragic.

You are pathetic. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

 

[Craig234]

It may surprise you that Vets are often the most Anti-War people you will find.

John Kennedy and John Kerry fit this, as vets who saw the horror of war and grew to hate it.

 

[DealMonkey]

Interesting how all of the alleged "patriots" in this forum, the most ardent flag-wavers, will slander a war veteran when they're not agreeing with 'em. Oh, but if its the Swift Boat dudes, taking out that commie Kerry, now you get a different tune. Pa-thetic. Slander this guy all you want, but he's entitled to his opinion.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Craig234
John Kennedy and John Kerry fit this, as vets who saw the horror of war and grew to hate it.

The same John Kerry who tried to tell us he spent Christmas in Cambodia 1968 right? :laugh:

And the same one who came back to accuse his comrades of war crimes and dispose of his medals?

I'm disgusted you would use Kerry as a basis for anything after all the lies that SOB told us.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Craig234
John Kennedy and John Kerry fit this, as vets who saw the horror of war and grew to hate it.

The same John Kerry who tried to tell us he spent Christmas in Cambodia 1968 right? :laugh:

And the same one who came back to accuse his comrades of war crimes and dispose of his medals?

I'm disgusted you would use Kerry as a basis for anything after all the lies that SOB told us.

i wont defend kerry as a politician but you are an idiot my friend, you seem to like to keep twisting the truth just as much as you claim kerry does

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Craig234
John Kennedy and John Kerry fit this, as vets who saw the horror of war and grew to hate it.

The same John Kerry who tried to tell us he spent Christmas in Cambodia 1968 right? :laugh:

And the same one who came back to accuse his comrades of war crimes and dispose of his medals?

I'm disgusted you would use Kerry as a basis for anything after all the lies that SOB told us.

LOL@this guy who hasn't even served on the boy scouts let alone an armed conflict.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Craig234
John Kennedy and John Kerry fit this, as vets who saw the horror of war and grew to hate it.

The same John Kerry who tried to tell us he spent Christmas in Cambodia 1968 right? :laugh:

And the same one who came back to accuse his comrades of war crimes and dispose of his medals?

I'm disgusted you would use Kerry as a basis for anything after all the lies that SOB told us.

What War have you've fought in?

Are you back from a tour in Iraq helping your hero in his false War, that should be the least you could do for him.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Craig234
John Kennedy and John Kerry fit this, as vets who saw the horror of war and grew to hate it.

The same John Kerry who tried to tell us he spent Christmas in Cambodia 1968 right? :laugh:

And the same one who came back to accuse his comrades of war crimes and dispose of his medals?

I'm disgusted you would use Kerry as a basis for anything after all the lies that SOB told us.

Because we all know dental records from a AF base in Alabama really make you a soldier.

 

[Pens1566]

Why does Kevin Tillman hate the troops? And America? Can't he see that he's just helping the terrists?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Craig234
John Kennedy and John Kerry fit this, as vets who saw the horror of war and grew to hate it.

The same John Kerry who tried to tell us he spent Christmas in Cambodia 1968 right? :laugh:

And the same one who came back to accuse his comrades of war crimes and dispose of his medals?

I'm disgusted you would use Kerry as a basis for anything after all the lies that SOB told us.

i wont defend kerry as a politician but you are an idiot my friend, you seem to like to keep twisting the truth just as much as you claim kerry does

The thing to understand is that Pabster is a cult member. His brain does not function like a free man's brain. He sees black and white where others see clearly.

For example, John Kennedy was having sex with a nazi spy, but you aren't likely to see Pabster here accusing him of being a traitor, because his cult says JFK is ok.

Why do they do that? Because JFK is too popular for them to smear now, and they'd lose if they tried, so they just redefine him inaccurately to fit their ideology.

Pabster is incabable of context - seeing that whatever details Kerry misremembered, he was volunteering and risking his life in combat, that weighs for far more. He's unable to grasp the patriotism of Kerry putting the truth ahead of the government's message, when the government was republican. That Kerry was *asking* vets, giving them a voice, far more than he was saying or accusing anyone of anything. His repeating what they had to say made him a leader, not someone doing wrong.

Pabster cannot disprove the vast majority of anything Kerry sais, so while he stands on the wrong side of killing millions of people, he nit picks Kerry for tiny things.