Pat Tillman's Brother Kevin

[Zebo]

Iraq's not our fight. Tillman shows us it's even becoming obvious to those in the military. We already know those thinking of joining the military feel that way by recruiting shortfalls and continued roll back of recruiting objectives to give apprearances of meeting objectives. Bush hard on for Iraq not only destoryed our international credibilty, treasury, and moral leadership he's destroyed our military too all for what will be an Islamic Emirate with cold blooded killers leading it.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Oh boy, more dodging, weaving and deflection by both sides. :roll:

To the topic at hand (the real one, not the yelling by the usual morons), what does this author have that the rest of America doesn't? A celebrity brother who was killed in the line of duty? Sorry, that doesn't give his opinion any more weight than anybody else. It's tragic, yes. But his is no different than the bitter anti-Bush diatribes posted by thousands if not tens of thousands of people daily. Do we need to post every single one of them? We get it. You're against the war. You'll have your chance again in November.

What gives his opinion weight is that he was there in both Afghanistan and Iraq, right in the middle of the sh!t.

Again, one of a multitude. What gives his opinion any more weight than anybody elses? Should there be a thread started for every separate soldiers opinion? Or only the ones that agree with the anti-Bush, since I'm sure the soldiers in support of the war will be shouted down with calls of "brainwashing" and "Bushgodfanboi" or some other tripe. Let's face it, this forum is a wasteland of groputhink. Why I bother reading, I'll never know. A glutton for punishment I guess.

Other soldiers supporting Bush have been discussed before.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Oh boy, more dodging, weaving and deflection by both sides. :roll:

To the topic at hand (the real one, not the yelling by the usual morons), what does this author have that the rest of America doesn't? A celebrity brother who was killed in the line of duty? Sorry, that doesn't give his opinion any more weight than anybody else. It's tragic, yes. But his is no different than the bitter anti-Bush diatribes posted by thousands if not tens of thousands of people daily. Do we need to post every single one of them? We get it. You're against the war. You'll have your chance again in November.

What gives his opinion weight is that he was there in both Afghanistan and Iraq, right in the middle of the sh!t.

Again, one of a multitude. What gives his opinion any more weight than anybody elses? Should there be a thread started for every separate soldiers opinion? Or only the ones that agree with the anti-Bush, since I'm sure the soldiers in support of the war will be shouted down with calls of "brainwashing" and "Bushgodfanboi" or some other tripe. Let's face it, this forum is a wasteland of groputhink. Why I bother reading, I'll never know. A glutton for punishment I guess.

Other soldiers supporting Bush have been discussed before.

Yes, I do seem to recall some, and as I stated earlier they often descend immediately into calling anybody who supports the war "brainwashed rednecks" or some other crap. If I recall, ****** was one of those quick to praise any soldiers against the war and mock those who support it. As is typical for this forum, anti-Bush jokes are the funniest thing ever uttered, anti-Bush articles can't be argued with, while anything not anti-Bush is quickly shouted down by the anti-Bush League. I won't even go so far as to say pro-Bush posters are shouted down, because unless one is violently anti-Bush, they are labelled Repugs, Neocons, or whatever the slur du jour is. I have been labelled as such numerous times, which would be pretty hilarious to anybody that actually knows me.

I'll try to track some of those threads down, but not right now, I'm too tired.

Wow, that poster's (or now ex-poster I guess?) name is a filtered word? Impressive.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Oh boy, more dodging, weaving and deflection by both sides. :roll:

To the topic at hand (the real one, not the yelling by the usual morons), what does this author have that the rest of America doesn't? A celebrity brother who was killed in the line of duty? Sorry, that doesn't give his opinion any more weight than anybody else. It's tragic, yes. But his is no different than the bitter anti-Bush diatribes posted by thousands if not tens of thousands of people daily. Do we need to post every single one of them? We get it. You're against the war. You'll have your chance again in November.

What gives his opinion weight is that he was there in both Afghanistan and Iraq, right in the middle of the sh!t.

Again, one of a multitude. What gives his opinion any more weight than anybody elses? Should there be a thread started for every separate soldiers opinion? Or only the ones that agree with the anti-Bush, since I'm sure the soldiers in support of the war will be shouted down with calls of "brainwashing" and "Bushgodfanboi" or some other tripe. Let's face it, this forum is a wasteland of groputhink. Why I bother reading, I'll never know. A glutton for punishment I guess.

Other soldiers supporting Bush have been discussed before.

Yes, I do seem to recall some, and as I stated earlier they often descend immediately into calling anybody who supports the war "brainwashed rednecks" or some other crap. If I recall, ****** was one of those quick to praise any soldiers against the war and mock those who support it. As is typical for this forum, anti-Bush jokes are the funniest thing ever uttered, anti-Bush articles can't be argued with, while anything not anti-Bush is quickly shouted down by the anti-Bush League. I won't even go so far as to say pro-Bush, because unless one is vehemently anti-Bush, they are labelled Repugs, Neocons, or whatever the slur du jour is.

I'll try to track some of those threads down, but not right now, I'm too tired.

Quit whining. The other side does the same thing, this thread is evidence of it.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Quit whining. The other side does the same thing, this thread is evidence of it.

Yes, this thread is evidence of anti-Bush fanatic whining. Excellent observation.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: sandorski
Quit whining. The other side does the same thing, this thread is evidence of it.

Yes, this thread is evidence of anti-Bush fanatic whining. Excellent observation.

Ah, willful blindness. Got it.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: sandorski
Quit whining. The other side does the same thing, this thread is evidence of it.

Yes, this thread is evidence of anti-Bush fanatic whining. Excellent observation.

Ah, willful blindness. Got it.

Go play in traffic.

For every Pabster or ProfJohn, there are at least three times as many posters here who hate Bush so much they can't even recognize any opinion but there own as valid. There's no debate in this forum, just circle jerking one way and then the other.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: sandorski
Quit whining. The other side does the same thing, this thread is evidence of it.

Yes, this thread is evidence of anti-Bush fanatic whining. Excellent observation.

So according to you we should just STFU about Bush and his decision to go to war in Iraq? Well I'm not going too so I guess I'll just have to suffer you accusing me of being an anti Bush fanatic. It could be worse, you could accuse me of being a Bush apologist which would be a terrible insult.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: sandorski
Quit whining. The other side does the same thing, this thread is evidence of it.

Yes, this thread is evidence of anti-Bush fanatic whining. Excellent observation.

So according to you we should just STFU about Bush and his decision to go to war in Iraq? Well I'm not going too so I guess I'll just have to suffer you accusing me of being an anti Bush fanatic. It could be worse, you could accuse me of being a Bush apologist which would be a terrible insult.

Do whatever you want, it's a free country and obviously the mods don't care if there are 1,000 anti-war threads, but it sounds like a broken record in here.

And for the record, I'd call you a pinko before I called you a Bush apologist Red.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: sandorski
Quit whining. The other side does the same thing, this thread is evidence of it.

Yes, this thread is evidence of anti-Bush fanatic whining. Excellent observation.

Ah, willful blindness. Got it.

Go play in traffic.

For every Pabster or ProfJohn, there are at least three times as many posters here who hate Bush so much they can't even recognize any opinion but there own as valid. There's no debate in this forum, just circle jerking one way and then the other.

If you want the discussion here to change, fvkin change it. Don't just whine.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: sandorski
Quit whining. The other side does the same thing, this thread is evidence of it.

Yes, this thread is evidence of anti-Bush fanatic whining. Excellent observation.

So according to you we should just STFU about Bush and his decision to go to war in Iraq? Well I'm not going too so I guess I'll just have to suffer you accusing me of being an anti Bush fanatic. It could be worse, you could accuse me of being a Bush apologist which would be a terrible insult.

Do whatever you want, it's a free country and obviously the mods don't care if there are 1,000 anti-war threads, but it sounds like a broken record in here.

So you believe the Mods should stifle any criticism of Bush? The ratio is probably 100 to 1 against Bush and his fscked up war (and not all of us are Liberal or leftist) so what do you expect?

[

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: sandorski
Quit whining. The other side does the same thing, this thread is evidence of it.

Yes, this thread is evidence of anti-Bush fanatic whining. Excellent observation.

So according to you we should just STFU about Bush and his decision to go to war in Iraq? Well I'm not going too so I guess I'll just have to suffer you accusing me of being an anti Bush fanatic. It could be worse, you could accuse me of being a Bush apologist which would be a terrible insult.

Do whatever you want, it's a free country and obviously the mods don't care if there are 1,000 anti-war threads, but it sounds like a broken record in here.

So you believe the Mods should stifle any criticism of Bush? The ratio is probably 100 to 1 against Bush and his fscked up war (and not all of us are Liberal or leftist) so what do you expect?

Wow, again with the putting words in my mouth. You're better than that Red. I said nothing about stifling criticism of Bush. But even Dave reuses the same set of threads on various broad topics and expands on them rather than starting hundreds of separate Bush bashes.

As for 100 to 1 against Bush, I can only assume you're referring to the forum and not the country. If this thread were representative of the real world, it might be more like 2 to 1 or 3 to 1. But as you've helped to point out, this forum has simply become company for the miserable and debate is not welcome.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: sandorski
Quit whining. The other side does the same thing, this thread is evidence of it.

Yes, this thread is evidence of anti-Bush fanatic whining. Excellent observation.

So according to you we should just STFU about Bush and his decision to go to war in Iraq? Well I'm not going too so I guess I'll just have to suffer you accusing me of being an anti Bush fanatic. It could be worse, you could accuse me of being a Bush apologist which would be a terrible insult.

Do whatever you want, it's a free country and obviously the mods don't care if there are 1,000 anti-war threads, but it sounds like a broken record in here.

So you believe the Mods should stifle any criticism of Bush? The ratio is probably 100 to 1 against Bush and his fscked up war (and not all of us are Liberal or leftist) so what do you expect?

Wow, again with the putting words in my mouth. You're better than that Red. I said nothing about stifling criticism of Bush. But even Dave reuses the same set of threads on various broad topics and expands on them rather than starting hundreds of separate Bush bashes.

Why even bother coming in here, just to pass judgement of others?

As for 100 to 1 against Bush, I can only assume you're referring to the forum and not the country. If this thread were representative of the real world, it might be more like 2 to 1 or 3 to 1.

Well it's the real world, in the real world there of segments of people who feel strongly about certain things, this forum happens to be a segment who believe that Bush is fscked up. There's a few who come in here and bitch about it but I don't understand what they think they are accomplishing. I've yet to see them change anyones opinion towards there (granted with Bush they aren't given much ammunition)

But as you've helped to point out, this forum has simply become company for the miserable and debate is not welcome.

Well what makes you any different. You come in here making accusations and labeling people.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: sandorski
If you want the discussion here to change, fvkin change it. Don't just whine.

You should accuse me of whining a couple more times. And use the word "fvk" again. That'll show me who's boss.

It's pretty funny when you think about it. Here in P&N, the "establishment" is left leaning. Yet they employ all the best tactics of Bush and the right wing establishment. Calling their detractors whiners, shouting down anybody who disagrees, spinning anything and everything to support their agenda. Somehow, the left is right about everything these days. Now normally, nobody could be 100% correct 100% of the time, but right now the left is. No matter what fact or opinion is presented, the left is correct and the right is wrong. I guess the left has transcended the plane of mere mortals and is now teetering on the brink of divinity. Debate is unnecessary. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

But I digress.

As for changing the conversation, I'm not really that motivated to do anything about it myself. Hell, I'm against the war and Bush too. I just don't spend as much time and energy bitching about them. Besides it's far more entertaining for me to sit back and watch the hypocrisy of the left unfold. I just like to point it out now and then. I mean really, where's the fun in pointing out where the right wing is wrong? For one, to most people it should be pretty obvious which right wing posters are drones. Secondly, even if it weren't obvious those 100 people Red mentioned are already pointing it out. I figure my time is better spent pointing out the left wing drones.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Why even bother coming in here, just to pass judgement of others?

What the hell are those 100 to 1 anti-Bush fanatics doing in here? Last I checked they weren't trading recipes and laundry tips. Almost everything posted here is passing judgement on others. Or does it not count as passing judgement when you agree with those passing it?

Well it's the real world, in the real world there of segments of people who feel strongly about certain things, this forum happens to be a segment who believe that Bush is fscked up. There's a few who come in here and bitch about it but I don't understand what they think they are accomplishing. I've yet to see them change anyones opinion towards there (granted with Bush they aren't given much ammunition)

I don't follow this "few" you're referring to. This forum is almost exclusively Bush bashing.

Well what makes you any different. You come in here making accusations and labeling people.

As I've said, what makes me different is that I point out the left wing drones. There's enough slamming of Bush, my voice would add nothing to the throng. Devils advocate? Perhaps.

 

[TravisT]

Of the 3 family members I have, although they may not necessarily be happy to be over in Iraq. They would never degrade the war to the point that they feel their fellow soldiers deaths were meaningless. In fact, this is why they voted for Bush to be placed back into office, they didn't feel they had the same support on the left.

Some already pointed out that this is a source of an extremely leftist site. I can't account that this is actual work of his brother. To be honest, I would be surprised if it was.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: sandorski
If you want the discussion here to change, fvkin change it. Don't just whine.

You should accuse me of whining a couple more times. And use the word "fvk" again. That'll show me who's boss.

It's pretty funny when you think about it. Here in P&N, the "establishment" is left leaning. Yet they employ all the best tactics of Bush and the right wing establishment. Calling their detractors whiners, shouting down anybody who disagrees, spinning anything and everything to support their agenda. Somehow, the left is right about everything these days. Now normally, nobody could be 100% correct 100% of the time, but right now the left is. No matter what fact or opinion is presented, the left is correct and the right is wrong. I guess the left has transcended the plane of mere mortals and is now teetering on the brink of divinity. Debate is unnecessary. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

But I digress.

As for changing the conversation, I'm not really that motivated to do anything about it myself. Hell, I'm against the war and Bush too. I just don't spend as much time and energy bitching about them. Besides it's far more entertaining for me to sit back and watch the hypocrisy of the left unfold. I just like to point it out now and then. I mean really, where's the fun in pointing out where the right wing is wrong? For one, to most people it should be pretty obvious which right wing posters are drones. Secondly, even if it weren't obvious those 100 people Red mentioned are already pointing it out. I figure my time is better spent pointing out the left wing drones.

Just one last time: Quit whining. This thread isn't about the composition of P&N, if you want that to change and present non-Left/Lib/whateva viewpoints, present them. Whining(oops did it again) about it is not debating the issue.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Just one last time: Quit whining. This thread isn't about the composition of P&N, if you want that to change and present non-Left/Lib/whateva viewpoints, present them. Whining(oops did it again) about it is not debating the issue.

Thanks, I feel fulfilled.

As for this thread... what IS it about? It spun out of control within a few posts. There was something about Kerry and Bush and purple hearts and the national guard. So how was this not a thread to bring up pointless partisan bickering?

 

[DealMonkey]

On the surface, this thread is about Tillman and his choice words for the Administration, but dig a little deeper and it turns out its really about accountability. Or the lack of it in our current Administration.

9/11 was the most colossal f-up in American Government in the past 50 years since Pearl Harbor. Yet, no one lost their job over it. Iraq was sold to the American public on a number of factors that simply weren't true. No one lost their job over that. Post-war Iraq occupation has been a f'd up tragedy since three years ago and guess what? Rummy still has his job. Even Afghanistan (a war even liberals could get behind) is descending into crappitude once again.

Where does the buck stop again?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Where does the buck stop again?

American voters?

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
So you believe the Mods should stifle any criticism of Bush? The ratio is probably 100 to 1 against Bush and his fscked up war (and not all of us are Liberal or leftist) so what do you expect?

Right

You and I both know the voices that have 'stifled' in the past were not Bush critics. They were conservative voices. And that seems to be a consistent pattern here.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Where does the buck stop again?

American voters?

Three answers to that -- YES, NO and MAYBE.

Yes -- In two weeks, we have a chance to vote in a majority of Democrats in both houses of Congress. Then, despite the rhetoric from Nancy Pelosi and others to the contrary, they will have the ability to subpoena the administration and their records to learn, first hand, if the facts support any actions that hold the administration accountable for their stupidity, misdeeds or crimes.

No -- The only place the buck stops is with those in charge of this horrendous fiasco because they are in charge, and they are the only ones who can affect our actions, NOW.

Yes and No -- If we're lucky enough to get a Democratic majority in both houses, and IF the evidence supports it, the question remails whether they'll have the balls to stand up and boot the entire administration impeachment and criminal proceedings.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Harvey
Then, despite the rhetoric from Nancy Pelosi...

So Harvey, you are admitting Pelosi is full of sh!t and all her talk is nothing but rhetoric?