Patent Agent

[chorb]

Anyone here on AT a Patent Agent (not to be confused with Patent Attorney)?

This may be something I'm interested in; graduated with a BS EE a couple years ago. I dont have the time or money (or desire) to go to a full blown law school, and I dont feel like straight engineering is doing it for me. I can do the work easy enough, but I dont see myself designing circuits for the rest of my life.

I'm just starting to get more info on the subject (taking the Patent Registration Exam, etc...), and was just wondering if anyone here had some inside advice/suggestions in the matter.

 

[buzzsaw13]

Had a patent attorney speak in one of my classes the other day, says a patent agent makes considerably less than an attorney. If you do plan on going to law school later, I hear you don't have to take the test to be a patent attorney if you work as a patent agent for 2 years.

 

[Dirigible]

Disclaimer: I'm not a patent agent.

Originally posted by: buzzsaw13
Had a patent attorney speak in one of my classes the other day, says a patent agent makes considerably less than an attorney. If you do plan on going to law school later, I hear you don't have to take the test to be a patent attorney if you work as a patent agent for 2 years.

You're probably thinking of patent examiner, not agent. You can not work as a patent agent at all without passing the patent bar first.

A patent agent will indeed make less money than an attorney.

It takes a certain personality to make a career as a patent agent. A lot of people find the work boring after a few years.

 

[chorb]

It takes a certain personality to make a career as a patent agent. A lot of people find the work boring after a few years.

What makes you say this; Do you know someone who's in that line of work?

I would of thought working with patents you'd always be on the forefront of technology seeing new ideas come in...

 

[BrokenVisage]

Sorry, I'm just a humble wallet inspector who gives free breast exams part-time.

 

[kumanchu]

Originally posted by: buzzsaw13
Had a patent attorney speak in one of my classes the other day, says a patent agent makes considerably less than an attorney. If you do plan on going to law school later, I hear you don't have to take the test to be a patent attorney if you work as a patent agent for 2 years.

patent agent - passed the "patent bar"

patent examiner - one who examines applications for the USPTO, will not have to take "patent bar" after 2 years of experience as full signatory patent examiner (aka primary) it usually takes 4~5 years to get full signatory authority.

patent attorney - passed the patent bar (or waived for having had full signatory authority for 2 years) + passed a state bar (hence attorney)

 

[ghart999]

I'm a patent attorney. What do you want to know?

 

[Sho'Nuff]

I'm a patent attorney. I can answer your questions about being a patent agent if you like. Just PM me.

 

[Tooncesthedrivingcat]

I'm a patent attorney too.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Originally posted by: Dirigible
Disclaimer: I'm not a patent agent.

Originally posted by: buzzsaw13
Had a patent attorney speak in one of my classes the other day, says a patent agent makes considerably less than an attorney. If you do plan on going to law school later, I hear you don't have to take the test to be a patent attorney if you work as a patent agent for 2 years.

You're probably thinking of patent examiner, not agent. You can not work as a patent agent at all without passing the patent bar first.

No, no, no. I used to be a patent examiner too, so I can attest to this.

Pre 2002, if you worked for more than 3 years as a patent examiner, the PTO would waive the exam requirement and issue you a registration number.

Now, to get a reg number by working for the PTO, you need two things: 1) certification of legal competency; and 2) negotiating authority. As to 1), the USPTO now requires examiners to take and pass a multiple choice test that is basically the examination portion of the patent bar (albeit it is a bit more dumbed down). As to 2), negotiating authority means that an examiner has to pass the "program" at the PTO, meaning that they have to be promoted from a junior examiner (GS 12 or lower) to a "primary" examiner (GS 13 or
higher). EDIT: I'm not sure about the 2+ years of experience as a primary. If that is a requirement, it is a relatively new one (last year or two).

So, an experienced examiner can in fact leave the patent office and work as a patent agent, provided they get their reg number from the PTO first.

As for the differences between a patent agent and attorney, there are several. Money is a big one. The patent agents in my firm get paid between 70-95K,depending on experience. Patent attorneys in my firm start at >160k.

The really big difference is what a patent agent can do vs. what a patent attorney can do. A patent agent can assist an inventor with just about any transaction before the USPTO, which generally means they can draft and prosecute patent applications. A patent attorney can do that as well, but they can also assist clients with non PTO related matters, e.g., litigation, opinions, general counseling, product development etc.

All in all, prosecution is a very important part of patent law (more important than many people recognize), but it can get boring. Becoming a patent attorney spices things up a bit by making the work more varied. Plus the 100% higher paycheck helps (though I question whether it is worth losing 4 years of my life for).

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Originally posted by: chorb
Anyone here on AT a Patent Agent (not to be confused with Patent Attorney)?

This may be something I'm interested in; graduated with a BS EE a couple years ago. I dont have the time or money (or desire) to go to a full blown law school, and I dont feel like straight engineering is doing it for me. I can do the work easy enough, but I dont see myself designing circuits for the rest of my life.

I'm just starting to get more info on the subject (taking the Patent Registration Exam, etc...), and was just wondering if anyone here had some inside advice/suggestions in the matter.

If you are going to take the registration exam, I strongly suggest taking the PRG (Kayton) prep course. Get the software . . . it simulates the exam almost perfectly and is a great study tool. Avoid the videos, as they are horrible and you won't be able to watch them unless you can stand looking at a talking head for 4 hours on end.

 

[Dirigible]

Originally posted by: soxfan

Originally posted by: Dirigible
Disclaimer: I'm not a patent agent.

Originally posted by: buzzsaw13
Had a patent attorney speak in one of my classes the other day, says a patent agent makes considerably less than an attorney. If you do plan on going to law school later, I hear you don't have to take the test to be a patent attorney if you work as a patent agent for 2 years.

You're probably thinking of patent examiner, not agent. You can not work as a patent agent at all without passing the patent bar first.

No, no, no. I used to be a patent examiner too, so I can attest to this.

Pre 2002, if you worked for more than 3 years as a patent examiner, the PTO would waive the exam requirement and issue you a registration number.

Thanks for the update. I haven't paid any attention to that whole thing since the '90s (passed the patent bar in '97) so was completely unaware of the changes.

Originally posted by: soxfan
All in all, prosecution is a very important part of patent law (more important than many people recognize), but it can get boring. Becoming a patent attorney spices things up a bit by making the work more varied. Plus the 100% higher paycheck helps (though I question whether it is worth losing 4 years of my life for).

This.

I put my disclaimer on my first post because OP specifically asked for patent agents and not patent attorneys. I'm another dang patent attorney (didn't realize there were so many on ATOT).

OP, I said patent agent work can get boring because as a patent attorney I've done a fair amount of it. Got bored. Mostly do attorney-ey things now. More interesting.

 

[axelfox]

I'm not a patent attorney

 

[magreen]

I'd like to become a patent attorney. I have a degree in physics from MIT and am studying for the lsat now. Any advice for me from all of you pros?

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: magreen
I have a degree in physics from MIT. Any advice for me from all of you pros?

Don't push carts of anomalous materials into mass spectrometers pegged at 105%.

 

[magreen]

Originally posted by: magreen
I'd like to become a patent attorney. I have a degree in physics from MIT and am studying for the lsat now. Any advice for me from all of you pros?

Some more detailed questions I have for you patent attorneys about it:

I read this link: Text

some points that stood out to me:
- employers (at least that one) don't give a damn how good your law school was in patent law. They care about the name of the school, since you actually learn everything you need to know on the job.
- it seems like you have to have a real jaw dropping resume (e.g. the H-bomb) to get hired in patent law.

Are these true? Is it worth going to a law school ranked 20th or do you have to have a T14, T7 or perhaps only a T3 school to make a good career in patent law?

thanks.

 

[senseamp]

It's good if you want to get your feet wet and to eventually take the time and money to become a patent lawyer, but I wouldn't go into it to be a patent agent for the rest of my life.
It's also not a bad idea to pass the patent bar just to have a back up qualification to your engineering degree just in case.
I evaluated patent agent option a few years back and my conclusion was that engineer will make same or more money than a patent agent and do more interesting work with better hours.
So it's aim to become a patent lawyer or stay in engineering.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: magreen

Originally posted by: magreen
I'd like to become a patent attorney. I have a degree in physics from MIT and am studying for the lsat now. Any advice for me from all of you pros?

Some more detailed questions I have for you patent attorneys about it:

I read this link: Text

some points that stood out to me:
- employers (at least that one) don't give a damn how good your law school was in patent law. They care about the name of the school, since you actually learn everything you need to know on the job.
- it seems like you have to have a real jaw dropping resume (e.g. the H-bomb) to get hired in patent law.

Are these true? Is it worth going to a law school ranked 20th or do you have to have a T14, T7 or perhaps only a T3 school to make a good career in patent law?

thanks.

Depends, but from Engineer's point of view, when I file a patent they ask me who I preffer to have as lawyer, and I always put down "former circuit designer"
I don't really care about the school name, but if I have to sit there and explain how transistors work to a lawyer, I don't know what I'd do The patent lawyers I've dealt with thus far had PhD's and many years of experience in my field of work, making it easy to work with them. Once you know who those are, I just keep asking for them.

 

[blue703]

I heard that the USPTO is hiring a lot of entry level patent examiners this year. You might want to look at the positions at usajobs.gov

 

[Harvey]

YGPM

I'm an electronic design engineer in the San Fernando Valley area of Ca. I have two patents and a great patent agent for you.

You're right to look for a patent agent, instead of an attorney. There are only two differences:

1. A patent attorney can represent you in a court action.

2. A patent attorney will charge you a LOT more per hour than a patent agent.

If it's new and different enough to merit a patent, you will be teaching whoever you choose what it is. You want to interview your prospective agents because you want one who is informed in the field of your invention so he/she is conversant in the field.

Good luck.

 

[Dirigible]

Originally posted by: magreen

Originally posted by: magreen
I'd like to become a patent attorney. I have a degree in physics from MIT and am studying for the lsat now. Any advice for me from all of you pros?

Some more detailed questions I have for you patent attorneys about it:

I read this link: Text

some points that stood out to me:
- employers (at least that one) don't give a damn how good your law school was in patent law. They care about the name of the school, since you actually learn everything you need to know on the job.
- it seems like you have to have a real jaw dropping resume (e.g. the H-bomb) to get hired in patent law.

Are these true? Is it worth going to a law school ranked 20th or do you have to have a T14, T7 or perhaps only a T3 school to make a good career in patent law?

thanks.

Take a look at the web sites at firms you may want to join (assuming you want to work at a firm). Look at the bios of the patent attorneys there and see where they went to school. That should give you a much better idea than I could.

Tech experience and education can make up *somewhat* for a poorer school. You still need to get past the employer's first screening of resumes so you can actually talk to them.

 

[magreen]

Right. It seems like the resume needs to pop. Can a good connection through a professor in patent law help land a job for a good candidate whose resume doesn't pop? Is that at all likely?

For example, I'm considering Boston. I'd like to go to Harvard. But I know realistically I can't be guaranteed to get in (esp. since I don't have an lsat score yet!). BU and BC both have 20-something ratings and strong IP law programs. Would those be acceptable choices if I don't get accepted to Harvard? I'd like to work in Boston, so perhaps they'd have those connections with people in local firms? What do you think? Maybe that's too unlikely to bank on, like expecting to find a needle in a haystack.

I know you recommended I look at IP firms' web pages. Can you recommend some IP firms in Boston for me to look at? I'm not familiar enough with them. Thanks!

 

[Veramocor]

Originally posted by: soxfan

Originally posted by: Dirigible
Disclaimer: I'm not a patent agent.

Originally posted by: buzzsaw13
Had a patent attorney speak in one of my classes the other day, says a patent agent makes considerably less than an attorney. If you do plan on going to law school later, I hear you don't have to take the test to be a patent attorney if you work as a patent agent for 2 years.

You're probably thinking of patent examiner, not agent. You can not work as a patent agent at all without passing the patent bar first.

snip

As for the differences between a patent agent and attorney, there are several. Money is a big one. The patent agents in my firm get paid between 70-95K,depending on experience. Patent attorneys in my firm start at >160k.

snip

The salary is relative though, you are working 60+ hours a week as the patent attorney compared to 40 as the agent.


P.S. Don't sell your soul into Patent law/USPTO, engineering is much more fun (albeit not as lucrative/secure of a job).

 

[senseamp]

I would study for the patent bar while keeping your engineering job if I were you. Then if you pass, you can evaluate all options available to you and see what you want to do.
You can always try the patent agent thing for a while and go back to engineering later, if you don't forget everything
Another option if you are a really good engineer is to be an expert witness, where you are paid to provide your expertise to the court in various tech related lawsuits.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Originally posted by: magreen

Originally posted by: magreen
I'd like to become a patent attorney. I have a degree in physics from MIT and am studying for the lsat now. Any advice for me from all of you pros?

Some more detailed questions I have for you patent attorneys about it:

I read this link: Text

some points that stood out to me:
- employers (at least that one) don't give a damn how good your law school was in patent law. They care about the name of the school, since you actually learn everything you need to know on the job.
- it seems like you have to have a real jaw dropping resume (e.g. the H-bomb) to get hired in patent law.

Are these true? Is it worth going to a law school ranked 20th or do you have to have a T14, T7 or perhaps only a T3 school to make a good career in patent law?

thanks.

Going to a good school helps in IP law, but only if the good school also happens to have a strong IP program.

Jaw dropping resumes are becoming more common these day, but they are not required. My firm often hires people based on their past work experience a opposed to their grades. We have even avoided hiring folks with better grades simply because of personality conflicts.