Paternity and Maternity Leave

[AViking]

No you understood perfectly. A few people think they are being smart by arguing semantics.

The United States of America pays more than every other country and receives less benefits. You pay more and the government pays more and you don't have basic benefits like the rest of the developed world.

Free healthcare has never implied that it just appears out of thin air. Of course it's not free. In Sweden we still have small costs associated with it on top of our taxes. Maybe you would be happier if we called it universal but in the end it's just arguing semantics. Universal Education too? No. We just call it free. People pay their taxes and get benefits. In the US you pay taxes and get no benefits. You are then stuck with giant bills, no free time, and a lower standard of living.

I have listed so many things up above such as the HDI. The USA is ranked #16 in the inequality adjusted HDI. What is everyone going to do about it? People can keep screaming "Not out of my pocket" but you are paying a shit load for nothing and the country is not prospering as a whole. All that money you're paying is just being funneled to the top.

I mean it's so bad in the USA right now that 37% of Americans say that Zombies would do a better job than Congress. 80% of Americans are facing poverty or unemployment during their lives and a complete evaporation of the American Dream. The idea that you should be doing better than your parents is dead. Those under 40 are doing worse than their parents for the first time in almost 75 years. 75% of Americans do not have enough money to pay 6 months worth of bills yet we have people here advocating that everyone should pay for their own maternity and paternity leave. Only 13% of employers offer any paid maternity leave so somehow 87% of Americans should be able to pay their own way despite 75% not being able to afford jack shit.

We can't even agree that parents should get more time off or paid time off though so maybe I shouldn't be hopeful. Too many people are selfish and only care about themselves.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The United States of America pays more than every other country and receives less benefits. You pay more and the government pays more and you don't have basic benefits like the rest of the developed world.

I don't think you understand where the money is going, nor do I think you understand the degree of bureaucracy and inefficiency in the US government.

I'd rather programs be cut (defense, social spending, etc) than build yet more bloated government bureaucracy.

Free healthcare has never implied that it just appears out of thin air. Of course it's not free. In Sweden we still have small costs associated with it on top of our taxes. Maybe you would be happier if we called it universal but in the end it's just arguing semantics. Universal Education too? No. We just call it free. People pay their taxes and get benefits. In the US you pay taxes and get no benefits. You are then stuck with giant bills, no free time, and a lower standard of living.

The only thing I'd like to have is more time off but otherwise, I think I'm perfectly happy. And I would never expect other taxpayers to subsidize time off for me.

I have listed so many things up above such as the HDI. The USA is ranked #16 in the inequality adjusted HDI. What is everyone going to do about it? People can keep screaming "Not out of my pocket" but you are paying a shit load for nothing and the country is not prospering as a whole. All that money you're paying is just being funneled to the top.

That won't change as long as Congress serves its corporate masters.

I mean it's so bad in the USA right now that 37% of Americans say that Zombies would do a better job than Congress. 80% of Americans are facing poverty or unemployment during their lives and a complete evaporation of the American Dream.

And these are the people (Congress) that you want to trust to enact such sweeping changes.

Link to the 80% figure? There is nothing wrong with a safety net as long as that is what it truly is -- a safety net and not a lifetime support mechanism.

The idea that you should be doing better than your parents is dead. Those under 40 are doing worse than their parents for the first time in almost 75 years.

I'm doing better than my parents and I'm just slightly over 40.

Politicians seem to only care about being re-elected and not doing the right thing. That's why I advocate term limits for members of Congress.

75% of Americans do not have enough money to pay 6 months worth of bills yet we have people here advocating that everyone should pay for their own maternity and paternity leave.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Most Americans are terrible with money and spend every cent they get on the latest toys or to keep up with the neighbors. Everyone needs the latest cell phone, a new car every few years, new TVs, etc. Contrast that to me, who has years of savings, drives an old 2001 car, but makes well into 6 figures and has little debt.

We can't even agree that parents should get more time off or paid time off though so maybe I shouldn't be hopeful. Too many people are selfish and only care about themselves.

I don't care if parents get more time off or even paid for it, as long as their employer pays the salary and not the taxpayer.

It really has nothing to do with selfishness. The Constitution establishes boundaries and the government is already overstepping its bounds as laid out in the Constitution. Oh, sure, the politicians and their judicial lackeys twist and convolute the words of the Constitution to fit their agenda, but I have a feeling they know the spirit in which the document was written and choose to ignore it.

Sweden's tax rates are the highest in the world and much higher than the US:

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Sweden/United-States/Taxation

http://www.thelocal.se/20121018/43900

Another good article:

http://www.newgeography.com/content/001543-is-sweden-a-false-utopia

The old Sweden, in contrast, has not done as well in economic terms. In 1960 taxation stood at 30 percent of GDP, roughly where the US is today. As taxes rose, economic growth decreased, with Sweden dropping from being the 4th richest country in 1970 to being the 12th richest in 2008. Swedish GDP per capita is now $36,600, far below the $45,500 of the US, and even further behind the $56,900 of Swedes in America.

Instead of building capital, Swedes go into debt: 27 percent of Swedish households in fact have more debts than wealth, compared to between 16 and 19 percent in the US. With middle class wealth formation being held back by high taxes, Sweden has ironically developed a more unequal wealth distribution than the US. The Gini coefficient for ownership is almost 0.9 in Sweden, compared to slightly above 0.8 in the US.

Also, http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/05/13/look-to-sweden-obamas-high-tax-gurus/

In 1970, Swedish high earners paid marginal tax rates of 70 percent, rising to 85 percent by 1980. Marginal tax rates on dividends and capital gains were only slightly lower, if at all. Sweden’s entitlement state featured universal benefits replacing 90 percent or more of lost income, a state monopoly of social services, and a union-inspired ‘solidarity wage” that featured (as the Swede’s scornfully put it) “equal pay for all work.” Sweden’s distribution of income was as equal as the communist countries of Eastern Europe. Government spending rose to 60-70 percent of GDP versus the 45 to 50 percent in the rest of Europe at the time. Fifty percent more Swedes were “tax financed” than worked in the private sector.

The Swedish experiment also shows the importance of what the government does with its money. Universal benefits destroyed the work ethic. Instead of “high return public investments,” Sweden raised public employment and expanded cradle-to-grave entitlements. The solidarity wage destroyed incentives to acquire skills or enroll in higher education. Regional subsidies slowed the movement of people from stagnating to growing regions.

No thanks.

 

[AViking]

The reason I'm American is because my Swedish family left Sweden during the 1970's. The taxes were horrendous. The lady who wrote Pippi Longstocking was literally taxed 102% of her income. She wrote an op-ed piece in the largest newspaper, the political party in power for the last 100 years was thrown out, and the taxes were changed.

 

[AViking]

Might be worth noting that Swedens GDP per capita is $44091.09. Their record high. The US is down to $43063.36 but luckily recovering a little each year. If you look at PPP then the USA is ahead but I'm not sure how that factors in benefits which is what I'm talking about.

http://www.gfmag.com/component/cont...hest-and-poorest-countries.html#axzz2mWGp7zXU

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/gdp-per-capita

I really don't intend for this thread to be a Sweden vs USA thread though. I'm going to stop you in your tracks immediately there since I know all too well how defensive I am when someone badmouths the USA.

This thread is because I want the USA to be better. Not because I want to criticize it. Right now though we need some tough love and we need to seriously admit we have a problem.

Ultimately maybe this discussino is premature since:

I'd rather programs be cut (defense, social spending, etc) than build yet more bloated government bureaucracy.

and

It's sort of like social services: Do them properly, and you can get people to support them. Do them like we do in the US, and you get pushback because we know how F'd up they'll be, which in turn, means how we'll have our own money taken to support Politicians and those on the Gov teat.

80% number: https://www.google.se/search?q=80%+of+americans+near+poverty&oq=80%+of+americans+near+poverty

 

[EagleKeeper]

I'm not sure if you misunderstood what he was saying, but I think he was saying that it ends up being cheaper anyway. So you save money and get more benefit. Is my understanding flawed?

Someone is paying the (example) real $100/hr fee that a MD office needs for the MD, support staff, equipment costs , facilities, etc.

Now if he pays $20 instead of $100; who is paying the rest of the cost.
Unless the office bill should be $60-80 in his country. Which would indicate that either salaries are lower, equipment costs and/or facilities.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

My intent was not to make this a Sweden vs. US thread. I believe you said earlier that we could get similar benefits with something like a 10% tax increase, and my links show that Sweden's tax rates are far higher than 10% above the tax rates here.

I don't have time to read the articles in your link in detail, but I'd like to know how they figure the 80%. How is joblessness defined? Are we talking someone out of work for 1 or more years, or is the timeframe much lower?

 

[AViking]

Well I just read into it a bit more and the 80% might be a bit misleading. They're saying that 80% of the country will face unemployment at some point in their career. Well that's not saying much and is a really fluffy statistic. However if you do look at the numbers they still aren't pretty since about 50 million Americans are below poverty level and an additional giant percentage are close to poverty. It's not just minorities and inner city ghettos. Half of them are white.

The statistics on this stuff is nasty and political. I think I posted above that you should never look at unemployment numbers. You want to look at EMPLOYMENT numbers. Others might argue that the difference is because more people are in school but that doesn't tell the full story. They basically remove people from unemployment statistics after one year or something. I digress.

Marginal tax rates are a bit different. I said 10%-20% above. You have to look at both federal and state taxes. Coming from CA my taxes might be on the high end in the USA so I was paying something in the high 20's federally plus 9.3% for CA. The same income in Sweden is about 10% more. Rough table napkin math. Now there are different incomes so someone who is making say $30,000 a year in the US is going to have a very low marginal tax rate in the US but pay 33% in Sweden. If you're making a boat load of money in the US from working then you're going to pay maybe 10% less than Sweden. That doesn't tell the full story though. When you look at the GDP PPP above you'll see that Sweden has a pretty big delta compared to their regular GDP per capita. It's gotta be because of sales tax. We pay 25% vat here. Lots of stuff is very expensive. There is a difference though since culturally they don't buy as much "stuff" here. Either way purchasing power is much less but we have less to spend money on since our taxes provide so much.

Now if you want to go back to the 1970's and discuss taxes then I will hands down tell you it was awful. My family were all doctors, lawyers, etc and the taxes they paid were insane. Really insane. Today things are different.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...cans-arent-getting-their-moneys-worth/274945/

If you're busy and don't have much time just skip the links in the previous posts. Read this one though.

 

[smakme7757]

I pay 40% tax. Most people would cry, but it creates a better society if used correctly. Norway is really in a league of its own. I've lived in two different western countries and i payed only 18% tax in one and earned much less than what i earn in Norway with 40% income tax.

Maternity leave here is also extremely generous. Up to 10 months off with job security and almost full pay. Can't beat that!

 

[EagleKeeper]

I pay 40% tax. Most people would cry, but it creates a better society if used correctly. Norway is really in a league of its own. I've lived in two different western countries and i payed only 18% tax in one and earned much less than what i earn in Norway with 40% income tax.

Maternity leave here is also extremely generous. Up to 10 months off with job security and almost full pay. Can't beat that!

Key words are in bold.

Also, the overall tax rate on the middle class in the US approaches 40% between Federal Income tax, State Income Tax (80% of the states), City (some do ) and other government taxes on your income. Then add in sales tax for 90% of the country.

 

[shadow9d9]

"Fiscal conservatives want a reduced Fed gov "

No such thing. It is simply a fantasy that people use to rally the gullible like you to vote for them.

 

[shadow9d9]

Key words are in bold.

Also, the overall tax rate on the middle class in the US approaches 40% between Federal Income tax, State Income Tax (80% of the states), City (some do ) and other government taxes on your income. Then add in sales tax for 90% of the country.

If we didn't spend over 1 trillion a year on worthless military invasions, occupations, and bases everywhere, we'd have plenty of money to actually go towards helping our own people.

Also, how much of the "middle class" actually pay that much? There isn't much of a middle class left in the US to begin with...

 

[chucky2]

"Fiscal conservatives want a reduced Fed gov "

No such thing. It is simply a fantasy that people use to rally the gullible like you to vote for them.

There is such thing. The problem is we don't have fiscal conservative candidates. No one wants to be the adult in the room at 'promise the lemming suckers whatever we need to get votes' time during elections, which means each side trots out their talking points to get their base energized enough to believe once again the splash of jizz their elected Politicians give them after being elected is worth it.

What I've done is this: In elections that are close, vote for the candidate that will make the electoral body have full control. This allows the entity that is Politician to f*ck things up as fast as possible. Because these short sighted lemmings only think of today, never tomorrow, the sooner we hit bottom the better.

In elections that aren't close, vote for the most popular 3rd party. If that's Independent, fine. Green, fine. Communist (for those of you in San Fran), fine. If we can get enough doing this, we can get maybe more than 2 ruling political parties in this country.

As to the OP: My, massive, concern about expanding social programs in the US is again, we are not like other homogenized cultures. We have an absurd illegal invasion problem that not only is not going away, it is willingly fostered by both sides of the aisle for their own gain. We also have a cultural problem that is getting worse, not better, which is to exploit social services because 'they owes me'. If you sit on the Electric Line train in Chicago which goes through some of the poorer suburbs, sometimes you can actively hear groups talking about scamming the system.

I'm not interested in expanding US social services until we've made some massive headway on issues like this. Sadly our populace simply isn't as advanced as EU. The other way I look at it, and I do bounce back between the two, is to do as you wish. That way we will simply just hit bottom that much more soon. Just depends what the voting situation is like in each instance where I vote...

Chuck

 

[AparnaAdani]

These are main points that were discussing here but main this is - both should get enough leave to handle babby birth and kick start their child's life.

 

[soulcougher73]

These are main points that were discussing here but main this is - both should get enough leave to handle babby birth and kick start their child's life.

How is babby formed?

 

[Tango]

I used to think like you. I'm really glad I don't anymore. I don't mean that to be offensive but I think you're right that many people live these insular lives and they simply don't know any better. Far too many Americans live these incredibly selfish lives with talk radio in their ear reinforcing their selfishness and vilianizing everyone else.

Right now US society is heading back towards feudalism. We have the rich elite and we have everyone else working for them. If you don't bow to the rich elites wishes you're going to be homeless. We have this mighty military there to protect us from the barbarian hordes at the gates.

I'm in the top percentages. I'm intelligent. I'm capable of seeing the world though through the eyes of other people. This notion that the whole point of life is to collect as much loot as possible at the expense of everyone else is wrong. We can share a bit and live much higher quality lives. If we collectively work together we can get much more done. That's the whole reason we live in towns and cities and aren't out doing subsistence hunting, gathering, and farming. Unfortunately the US has turned into a country of them vs us. It's incredibly selfish and now we live in a society with pretty much zero benefits. You're born, you go to school, you get a job, and you die. It's fantastic.

I brought up this thread because of quality of life. My quality of life is WAY higher in Sweden than it was in California. Does that matter at all to you? All the money in the world cannot buy time and a general sense of well being. It cannot buy happier and healthier neighbors. It's really nice to live in a place where people are happy. Friends, family, neighbors, and co-workers. They're happier.

I live 6 month per year in Europe and 6 months in the US.

Basically, anybody making less than $150,000 per year would be (by far) happier in Europe.

The fact that Americans travel comparatively little keeps most of them from realizing it.

(I love the US and adore living in New York, I was just talking from a purely cost/benefit analysis perspective)

 

[AViking]

The fact that Americans travel comparatively little keeps most of them from realizing it.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/28780/why-64-of-americans-have-never-left-the-u-s

Mark Twain once said that, “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness.”

When I travel I meet a fair amount of Americans but considering we have over 300M people that makes sense. If you look at it from a per capita stand point Americans are not doing well at all.

My anecdotal experience says that the Dutch, French, and Germans absolutely dominate traveling the world. I actually meet more Russians and Chinese than I do Americans nowadays. It's almost as if Americans are travelling less than they were a few years ago. I thought we were getting much better to be honest but it seems to have slowed down. Anecdotal evidence though.

 

[soulcougher73]

http://www.policymic.com/articles/28780/why-64-of-americans-have-never-left-the-u-s

Mark Twain once said that, “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness.”

When I travel I meet a fair amount of Americans but considering we have over 300M people that makes sense. If you look at it from a per capita stand point Americans are not doing well at all.

My anecdotal experience says that the Dutch, French, and Germans absolutely dominate traveling the world. I actually meet more Russians and Chinese than I do Americans nowadays. It's almost as if Americans are travelling less than they were a few years ago. I thought we were getting much better to be honest but it seems to have slowed down. Anecdotal evidence though.

Concidering most americans dont get much vacation time or holidays and most live paycheck to paycheck its easy to see why most dont travel. I make decent money and i find it hard to save enough to travel anywhere outside the US. I want to visit the world, but its darn hard with airfare as pricey as it is. A nice trip for the wife and i to pretty much anywhere in Europe from KC would cost 5-10k for a week depending how lavisishly or ghetto we choose to go. Someday lol

 

[chucky2]

If it wasn't for my parent situation, I could travel basically anywhere in the world; 4 weeks of vaca, unpaid time off available, money not a realistic issue.

Why would I blow money going to EU when I could tour the US for far cheaper? Other than the historical nature of their architecture, I'm going there...for what?

I could spend a year in WY and never see everything, same likely for CO. CA for the nature (not the people) is another few months. I've got a lifetime worth of travel I can do in my own country before ever needing to go to another...

...and if/when I do go outside the US, why would I go to a place that is the same as where I'm from? If I'm going to travel, I'm going to islands, Africa, the ME, Russia...not EU.

EU would honestly be the last place I'd want to visit as far as priority.

Chuck

 

[piasabird]

Americans do not get a free education. Try paying property tax. Then usually you have to spend $30-$60 just to register your child to go to school. Of course there is the buying supplies for the teacher also. I honestly think that children could learn more faster online and from TV.

If we changed our tax code, we could fire 2/3 the people that work at the IRS. So how does the IRS send out so many fraudulent tax returns? If the Government can track every phone and chat over networks and the Internet, how can some idiot fool the IRS? Are they just idiots?

As long as the IRS is this incompetent, why should we trust the NSA?

 

[AViking]

Off season is much cheaper. You must have very high expectations and lavish needs to be budgeting that much.

Fly into low tax hubs. I flew LA to Bangkok in November for $650ish. You can fly to Bogota for like $500. I flew to Moscow for $700. I did Bali during the summer and airfare was about $1100 but I bought a bit late. Last year I bought tickets to Cape Town the day before I left and spent roughly $1200. Norwegian Air has tickets from Stockholm to LA for like $500 round trip. Lufthansa has them for $880 to San Francisco 2 years ago. A couple other tricks is to use a low cost airline to get to a cheaper airport. So from Stockholm it makes much more sense for me to fly Ryan Air to Frankfurt or London than it does to buy a ticket directly from Stockholm for most destinations.

I honestly don't even know how you could spend $5000-$10,000 per week for two people. I have traveled around the world and spend $1000 to $1500 a month and that includes living it up, diving, adventure sports, safaris, trekking, and pretty much doing anything I wanted. Going nuts with like 10 domestic flights in China and seeing everything I spent about $3000 for 5 weeks. I think the key is to cut down on hotel costs though. I only sleep there so why waste tons of money on a bed? Even if you did a $250 a night place you still wouldn't get to $5000 with airfare and everything. Your math is way off.

Maybe this is the problem. Nobody tells Americans how to travel. If everyone thinks it's going to cost $5K-$10K a week there is no wonder that nobody is getting a passport and travelling.

 

[AViking]

If it wasn't for my parent situation, I could travel basically anywhere in the world; 4 weeks of vaca, unpaid time off available, money not a realistic issue.

Why would I blow money going to EU when I could tour the US for far cheaper? Other than the historical nature of their architecture, I'm going there...for what?

I could spend a year in WY and never see the everything, same likely for CO. CA for the nature (not the people) is another few months. I've got a lifetime worth of travel I can do in my own country before every needing to go to another...

...and if/when I do go outside the US, why would I go to a place that is the same as where I'm from? If I'm going to travel, I'm going to islands, Africa, the ME, Russia...not EU.

EU would honestly be the last place I'd want to visit as far as priority.

Chuck

You should go where ever you want to go.

The USA is a fantastic place to travel in if you like nature. The Western USA is by far the most beautiful place I've been. So far at least. However the rest of the world has a lot to offer that we simply can't. Food, culture, architecture, history, ruins, the Serengeti, Amazon, Taj Mahal, Machu Pichu, Tikal, etc. I'm never going to advocate that one is better than the other. See them all since they're different.

 

[AViking]

Americans do not get a free education. Try paying property tax. Then usually you have to spend $30-$60 just to register your child to go to school. Of course there is the buying supplies for the teacher also. I honestly think that children could learn more faster online and from TV.

If we changed our tax code, we could fire 2/3 the people that work at the IRS. So how does the IRS send out so many fraudulent tax returns? If the Government can track every phone and chat over networks and the Internet, how can some idiot fool the IRS? Are they just idiots?

As long as the IRS is this incompetent, why should we trust the NSA?

Wrong thread?

 

[chucky2]

You should go where ever you want to go.

The USA is a fantastic place to travel in if you like nature. The Western USA is by far the most beautiful place I've been. So far at least. However the rest of the world has a lot to offer that we simply can't. Food, culture, architecture, history, ruins, the Serengeti, Amazon, Taj Mahal, Machu Pichu, Tikal, etc. I'm never going to advocate that one is better than the other. See them all since they're different.

Yes, I'm by far more of a nature buff than anything else. But I'd like to travel the Sahara, I'd like to hit up one of the poles, maybe climb a significant mountain or two if I ever get back into shape. So traveling outside of the US, absolutely. But there is so much to see on the upper North American continent...it will be a while before I leave it (except for a sunny island vaca maybe).

To me EU has...Western historical significance, mainly in its architecture/buildings/paintings. It's people I could care less about. Food, while nice, I can get food here in the US that suits me just fine. Trading food experience and EU people who want to talk down to me because I don't want my tax dollars going to scammers/greeders isn't worth it when I could be 100 mi deep in the mountains of WY, or CO, or Canada. Or have blistered lips and be thirsty as F but having a great experience in the Sahara.

 

[AViking]

I've obviously lived in Europe but I've also spent many months travelling around Europe. It is a great place to visit but quite frankly the Euro has fucked it up. Maybe it's me but I can't justify some of the prices. Before the Euro you might pay 25 cents for something in Italy or Greece. The Euro shows up and suddenly everything is at least a dollar. That pisses me off. Rooms I stayed in during the 1990's cost 3 times as much today. That makes no sense and makes other destinations far more attractive to me.

Europe has some really nice nature if that's your thing. The Fjords of Norway and the Northern Lights. I'm heading up to Abisko National Park to see the northern lights early next year. I've seen them once before and they're amazing. Places like Plitvice Lakes in Croatia will give almost anything we have in the USA a serious run for its money. That place is AMAZING! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plitvice_Lakes_National_Park The greek islands, endless sunflower fields in Eastern Europe the Tullups in Holland. The Alps! There's plenty of nature here. Add to that the world class Museums - especially the Hermitage - and it's really a place you should visit. For someone like me who is into history it has some very special places too. Rome, Auschwitz, Berlin for example. You also can't duplicate the age of Europe in the US. This morning I checked out the Royal Cathedral in Stockholm for the first time. Lots of stuff in there that is very old. The church itself is from the 1200's. Pretty nice in there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storkyrkan

 

[soulcougher73]

Off season is much cheaper. You must have very high expectations and lavish needs to be budgeting that much.

Fly into low tax hubs. I flew LA to Bangkok in November for $650ish. You can fly to Bogota for like $500. I flew to Moscow for $700. I did Bali during the summer and airfare was about $1100 but I bought a bit late. Last year I bought tickets to Cape Town the day before I left and spent roughly $1200. Norwegian Air has tickets from Stockholm to LA for like $500 round trip. Lufthansa has them for $880 to San Francisco 2 years ago. A couple other tricks is to use a low cost airline to get to a cheaper airport. So from Stockholm it makes much more sense for me to fly Ryan Air to Frankfurt or London than it does to buy a ticket directly from Stockholm for most destinations.

I honestly don't even know how you could spend $5000-$10,000 per week for two people. I have traveled around the world and spend $1000 to $1500 a month and that includes living it up, diving, adventure sports, safaris, trekking, and pretty much doing anything I wanted. Going nuts with like 10 domestic flights in China and seeing everything I spent about $3000 for 5 weeks. I think the key is to cut down on hotel costs though. I only sleep there so why waste tons of money on a bed? Even if you did a $250 a night place you still wouldn't get to $5000 with airfare and everything. Your math is way off.

Maybe this is the problem. Nobody tells Americans how to travel. If everyone thinks it's going to cost $5K-$10K a week there is no wonder that nobody is getting a passport and travelling.

One thing that sucks is where i live. All international flights seem to go out of the big coastal airports. So i have to get another round of tickets just getting there. And inter US flights are not very cheap overall. Unless its like a special from KC to Denver for $80 or something with probably only 1 seat at that price. $10k might be off, but $5k is probably more inline. Still not easy saving up $5k just for travel alone. I try since travelling is my most enjoyable thing, but have only managed here in the US so far.