Paul Walker dead

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MiataNC

Platinum Member
Dec 5, 2007
2,215
1
81
You have to remember too, Super cars are not made to be safe five star safety rating vehicles. Most are street legal race cars and made almost entirely of fiberglass, carbon fiber, and very light weight not so durable materials.

Super cars still have to meet min Federal safety standards in order to be sold and registered for use on public roads.

The car was ripped apart and exploded on impact (based on the CCTV video released recently). My money is on excessive speed and loss of control over poor/weak construction.
 

Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,964
2
0
A 50 MPH crash with an immovable object is like dropping the car from the fifth floor of a building.

Speed was a factor, but I doubt they were anywhere more than 60ish mph hitting that tree.

There is no evidence they had braked.

Hiting a tree at even 45mph is pretty damn serious.

Hard to say for sure, but if the computer is intact they will likely be able to extract data that resolves the speed question once and for all. But, my eyeball tells me they hit the poll north of 80mph...

Many years ago a couple friends of mine lost it in a Corolla at 105mph, hit a 2 foot diameter tree sideways (drivers side) and everyone onboard was killed -- instantly. The damage that car had was less than Walker's car. That's something of an Apples to Oranges comparison to be sure as the Carrera is very lightly built versus the Corolla, but the 105mph speed was also much faster than 50mph.

I also suspect there will be video either of the accident or someplace close before it and the police will be able to calculate how fast they were going in the video. I suspect they hit the pole over 80 but may well have been going over 100 shortly before.


Brian
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
If going over a speed bump will mess up a bunch of panels, then driving it through a telephone pole would presumably be a little worse.

Most of these cars are based on a space frame/etc and the panels are more or less cosmetics.

At least people here looked up what these very cars look like at typical 45-60mph collisions.

When most are in a 45mph crash it's really like a 20mph or less speed differentlal or into a barrier that is more forgiving than a tree.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
Most of these cars are based on a space frame/etc and the panels are more or less cosmetics.

At least people here looked up what these very cars look like at typical 45-60mph collisions.

When most are in a 45mph crash it's really like a 20mph or less speed differentlal or into a barrier that is more forgiving than a tree.



They were speeding excessively (70-80mph min) prior to the crash. Not sure how anyone can't see that as crystal clear after seeing CCTV footage.

A few folks are trying to contort around the obvious truth in this crash, i'm not sure what that achieves or what the purpose is. It's not necessary to have to jump through hoops to believe anything other than the immediate and obvious indications that speeding/reckless driving were directly related to the crash.

Other people who drive recklessly aren't' going to be saved by ridiculous explanations that avoid personal reasonability in what may lead to their serious injury or death.

It doesn't take anything away from Walker, Rodas, super cars, thrill seekers, or whatever to call a spade a spade here, if anything given the outcome, it is critically important to call this one like it is as it will be a deterrent to other less skilled enthusiasts who may want to push limits on public roads.
 
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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
They were speeding excessively (70-80mph min) prior to the crash. Not sure how anyone can't see that as crystal clear after seeing CCTV footage.

A few folks are trying to contort around the obvious truth in this crash, i'm not sure what that achieves or what the purpose is. It's not necessary to have to jump through hoops to believe anything other than the immediate and obvious indications that speeding/reckless driving were directly related to the crash.

Other people who drive recklessly aren't' going to be saved by ridiculous explanations that avoid personal reasonability in what may lead to their serious injury or death.

It doesn't take anything away from Walker, Rodas, super cars, thrill seekers, or whatever to call a spade a spade here, if anything given the outcome, it is critically important to call this one like it is as it will be a deterrent to other less skilled enthusiasts who may want to push limits on public roads.

For one you cannot accurately gauge speed from a CCTV without knowing a lot more details.

Two, although speed was a factor; it's becoming apparent that a vehicle failure was the cause of the accident.

Recklessly driving is also greatly debated when that driver is pretty much considered a 'pro'.

Sounds like someone is just angry and wants to blame a couple of rich guys and assume they were a danger to society.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
I wasn't aware there was any evidence of a "car malfunction" other than a vague report about some PS fluid.

Of course, a car malfunction at 55mph may be something you can recover from and avoid a crash, but at 90mph, you can't recover.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
For one you cannot accurately gauge speed from a CCTV without knowing a lot more details.

Two, although speed was a factor; it's becoming apparent that a vehicle failure was the cause of the accident.

Recklessly driving is also greatly debated when that driver is pretty much considered a 'pro'.

Sounds like someone is just angry and wants to blame a couple of rich guys and assume they were a danger to society.

At 45mph with a steering malfunction detected; one can start braking excessively and you will see the evidence. If there was a fluid leak; there was no evidence of trying to slow down.

There have been no reports of skid marks.

You have two people trying to show off and arriving in "style" for an event.
Think of the publicity impact when coming around the bend at 100+ and sliding/drifting into the parking area.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
You have two people trying to show off and arriving in "style" for an event.
Think of the publicity impact when coming around the bend at 100+ and sliding/drifting into the parking area.

I'd think a professional driver would not come around a corner into a group of people possibly standing around at 100mph+.

All of this is speculation and the event was over and they were leaving.

If you know what you are doing driving sometimes 'brakes' are the wrong call. They are believing he lost all steering control and had no time for choice number two.

Also that power steering fluid could have been brake fluid resulting in no ability to leave skid marks.

I am waiting for the final outcome by the forensic experts rather than jump on a bandwagon just to lynch someone viewed as better than most.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
I wasn't aware there was any evidence of a "car malfunction" other than a vague report about some PS fluid.

Of course, a car malfunction at 55mph may be something you can recover from and avoid a crash, but at 90mph, you can't recover.

It's pretty much not a vague report, the debate is is it power steering or brake fluid.

A car can malfunction at 10mph and be impossible to recover from.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Also the car did not explode on impact, also the fire started at the front of the car.

I don't think people are keeping up with the news on this story as much as just wanting to post on the minor facts known the first day/few hours.
 

7window

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,533
1
0
They were speeding excessively (70-80mph min) prior to the crash. Not sure how anyone can't see that as crystal clear after seeing CCTV footage.

A few folks are trying to contort around the obvious truth in this crash, i'm not sure what that achieves or what the purpose is. It's not necessary to have to jump through hoops to believe anything other than the immediate and obvious indications that speeding/reckless driving were directly related to the crash.

Other people who drive recklessly aren't' going to be saved by ridiculous explanations that avoid personal reasonability in what may lead to their serious injury or death.

It doesn't take anything away from Walker, Rodas, super cars, thrill seekers, or whatever to call a spade a spade here, if anything given the outcome, it is critically important to call this one like it is as it will be a deterrent to other less skilled enthusiasts who may want to push limits on public roads.

I agree these guys were going fast. Since they paid the ultimate price I doubt they will really reveal what happen out of respect for the family. Unless the families doesn't care what is reported. There were no other innocent people involve and this happen in a desolate area.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Paul Walker and a cruel twist of fate: Fast and Furious star and friend 'only got in $500,000 Porsche to take over from worker who failed to park it four times'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...end-got-Porsche-GT-worker-failed-park-it.html

Before Rodas, who owned the 2005 Porsche Carrera GT, could put it away for the day, Fast and Furious actor Walker jumped in the passenger seat and they decided to go for a quick spin round the block.

Yeah, probably a quick spin at a approximately the speed limit or maybe 10 mph over, right?
 

Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,964
2
0
For one you cannot accurately gauge speed from a CCTV without knowing a lot more details.

Two, although speed was a factor; it's becoming apparent that a vehicle failure was the cause of the accident.

Recklessly driving is also greatly debated when that driver is pretty much considered a 'pro'.

Sounds like someone is just angry and wants to blame a couple of rich guys and assume they were a danger to society.


Utter nonsense...

If you know where the camera is and its focal length and field of view and you can measure the distance to the road it's 6th grade math to figure out how fast they were going.

Even without info on camera location and lens specifications if you know the length of the car you can ballpark the speed, probably within 5mph.


I'll bet they hit the pole at over 80mph and were probably closer to 100mph when they lost control.


But again, I think we'll know within a few days how fast they were going and I'd bet the police already do know.


Finally, does it make you feel better to believe they lost control of the car and died at 45mph?


Brian
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
14
81
www.markbetz.net
I agree these guys were going fast. Since they paid the ultimate price I doubt they will really reveal what happen out of respect for the family. Unless the families doesn't care what is reported. There were no other innocent people involve and this happen in a desolate area.

I don't believe they will defer to the family in a matter like this. Why it happened is public business. If the police do come to the conclusion that there was an element of recklessness involved, I imagine they'll make sure everyone knows it.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
14
81
www.markbetz.net
A car can malfunction at 10mph and be impossible to recover from.

I think you're really stretching this. What's the worst malfunction you can think of happening at 10 MPH, and what's the worst that can happen from it? Complete loss of brakes or steering? I mean, if you roll across an intersection or something things could get very bad. But at 10 MPH you can bump into most anything and get out of it with a $5k bodywork bill and a bad memory.

You have to admit the chances that they were driving the speed limit, or even a few MPH over it, are pretty dim. I don't care what kind of glasses you're wearing, that accident scene does not look _at all_ like the remains of a 45 MPH crash. They knocked that tree over, what? Maybe 15-20 degrees? My daughter's best friend died wrecking into a tree almost exactly that size, at what the cops called a "high rate of speed." And that tree is still standing straight and tall, and I could take you there and show you how little apparent damage it suffered. It ripped the car apart, and then just went back to being a tree like nothing happened. That's the way trees are, and it doesn't take a big one to disassemble your vehicle.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Also the car did not explode on impact, also the fire started at the front of the car.

I don't think people are keeping up with the news on this story as much as just wanting to post on the minor facts known the first day/few hours.

I have kept up and I disagree with your points on the possible malfunction, and the fire.

Keep in mind the car has 14.5 litres of engine oil aboard. The oil tank is part of the transmission. The engine oil drain plug is on the transmission housing.
 

WaTaGuMp

Lifer
May 10, 2001
21,207
2,506
126
Fuck yes, 2 guys driving in an insane car that can do over 180 mph, were just cruising down the street telling each other, hey don't break the 45 mph speed limit. That's like me being handed a fully automatic high powered gun, being in the middle of nowhere and just clicking off one shot at a time.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,279
5,720
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http://www.speautomotive.com/SPEA_CD/SPEA2004/pdf/e/e3.pdf

The car is very well built and would do well in most crashes. It took a lot to reduce it to junk, imo.

Its certainly not a tin can like some people seem to act like it is, and I think they hit it at just the right spot to basically cause the worst that could happen.

My guess is it hit that pole at high speed right in the side which snapped a lot of the bolts connecting the front and back pieces, that exposed the fuel tank which got torn open (if you look above the tarp in the early pics you can see a sorta hollow metal piece that looks like it was cleaved open) and that threw gas out which ignited.

I do wonder if Porsche has gotten any calls concerning the 918 Spyder, it seems to share a pretty similar configuration, in fact it might be even worse. The fuel tank is right up near the top, right in front of the engine and the muffler/exhaust is at the top front of the engine (so right next to the fuel tank). Plus its sitting on top of the battery pack.

 
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