PAYPAL Scam Going on Read This.

[cavemanmoron]

now paypal is getting trolled???:|

 

[dude]

Sleeper5555, I think you are missing my point. Scroll up a few post above mines and yours and you see people doing nothing but bitchin and moaning.

That's what my post was for.

 

[XFreebie]

although i dont like fees and such, i know they are mandatory adn glad that Paypal has the lowest fees comparably.

c2it is a special case, note that c2it is OWNED by citibank in relationship to Mastercard AND Visa, this is why THEY can afford to charge nothing to send funds via credit card, because it costs them nothing! otherwise the money would just go back to themselves.

meanwhile Paypal and Billpoint HAVE to charge u that 2% or more since that is what the credit card companies such as CitiBank charge them. otherwise they lose money on each transaction, which is why Paypal burnt thru $168 million capital last last year when it had no charges.

CCBill or CCnow or any other credit card processor will charge u average 3.95% upto 9% plus $1.00 on each transaction. far more than Paypal/Billpoint.

 

[XFreebie]

hey PaypalDamon, how come we never hear about what happens to those fake paypal site scammers? they goto jail right? if u publish their jail stories u'll discourage others from trying to set us up the scam

 

[GetReal]

<< although i dont like fees and such, i know they are mandatory adn glad that Paypal has the lowest fees comparably.

c2it is a special case, note that c2it is OWNED by citibank in relationship to Mastercard AND Visa, this is why THEY can afford to charge nothing to send funds via credit card, because it costs them nothing! otherwise the money would just go back to themselves.

meanwhile Paypal and Billpoint HAVE to charge u that 2% or more since that is what the credit card companies such as CitiBank charge them. otherwise they lose money on each transaction, which is why Paypal burnt thru $168 million capital last last year when it had no charges.

CCBill or CCnow or any other credit card processor will charge u average 3.95% upto 9% plus $1.00 on each transaction. far more than Paypal/Billpoint. >>



Hate to tell bud, but C2It even tough it is a subsidary of Citibank, pays transaction fees just like PayPal and BillPoint. If you have not noticed they do accept other credit cards other than Citibank cards and Citibank does not own or have any major influence over VISA or Mastercard. The c2IT service is currently free however, there is no intention to keep the C2it service free past their initial promotional period of 24 months (taken directly from Citibanks annual report). All online payment services will have to charge fees to stay in business.

...Also for those of you who do already know, PayPal, uses Wells Fargo to handle their ACH transactrions. Wells Fargo also has their own online payment service - BillPoint.

If you want to see PayPal's real financial condition and why your should be leary of PayPal or any other online payment service, read PyPal's IPO Prospectus This document is one place that PayPal or any other company cannot lie without legal conquences. After reading this prospectus., especially the risk factors section, you wonder why anyone would even use one of these services

 

[SLEEPER5555]

In addition to many problems i found in the prospectus here is one i never even thought of


"Currently we are not able to switch instantly to another back-up site in the
event of failure of the main server site. This means that an outage at one facility could result in our
system being unavailable for at least several hours. This downtime could result in increased costs and
lost revenues which would be detrimental to our business. Our secondary Internet hosting provider,
Exodus, recently filed for protection under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. Subject to court
approval, Britain?s Cable and Wireless plc has agreed to purchase Exodus?s data center assets. We
cannot predict the effect this may have on its ability to continue to provide reliable service."

Another one is that our paypal money market account currently earning 2.05 (or somthing like that) can actually go negative and we would owe them! read the next quote!

"We reinvest customer funds in the PayPal system in short term money market and money market
equivalent securities. Although we invest in high grade securities, the securities may lose value.
Customers who opt to invest their money in the PayPal Money Market Reserve Fund may lose the
original principal value of their initial investment. If these losses occur, customers? perceptions
regarding the safety and handling of customer funds in the PayPal system may result in decreased
participation in the Fund and decreased payment volume within our system."

 

[Damon]

Hi dealmonkey,

Paypaldamon,

You offered some good, but basic, security tips in the Paypal thread, however I can tell you there seems to be some apprehension amongst us in the following area:

1.) If someone does get ahold of a PayPal member's account info and goes on a spending spree, can funds be pulled from your checking account to cover these transactions?
(Yes, if the user clicks on an echeck/instant payment option)

2.) I fully understand why PayPal asks for a credit card for verification purposes. What I don't understand is why PayPal requires a bank account after verification? Isn't the credit card enough to ensure we are who we say we are?
(No, a credit card is not proof enough of ID)

3.) Because I couldn't find any info at the PayPal site on this, here's what I imagine could happen (this is all theoretical of course):

A) Hacker-type obtains paypal account info
B) Hacker type goes on spending spree
C) PayPal pulls funds from the primary credit card to cover transactions
D) When CC funds are no longer available, PayPal pulls funds from the required checking account
(No, as all payment choices are chosen by the user. The transactions would only occur if the option was chosen.)

Personally, what I'm worried about is "D" because it's so potentially devastating. Why can't PayPal just go thru the verification process with the bank account and once it's satisfied, allow its member to remove that account info. PayPal already knows who it's dealing with because of both verifications. Why does PayPal continue to require a bank account, when it opens its members to such tremendous liability?
(It prevents gaming the system)
It's one thing to have to credit card jacked by some hacker, but it's another when it's your bank account.

(Understood. This is why we have insurance against unauthorized access. It is also why banking/credit card details ARE NOT viewable on the web site.)

 

[Damon]

Hi Bigdoggie,

I did not go to the site, so I can't confirm that it was a re-direct. I don't see how this is possible, as the URL is completely different.


Our SECURITY section does advise users NOT to sign in at any site that is not www.paypal.com. I can't stress how important this is. Users do need to use some caution when receiving unsolicited email, as well as looking at the page they are being directed to.

I was not in on the weekend, so there was no way for me to escalate this issue. There was also no way for me to advise users to be cautious of this.

 

[Justincase]

Paypaldamon wrote:

>>>This is why we have insurance against unauthorized access.<<<

Does this mean that PayPal is to be paid in the event of unauthorized access...or will the member whose account was accessed inappropriately, be reimbursed by this 'insurance'?...or both?

 

[cuteybunny]

paypal did remind you all not to trust any other sites then paypal.com, if anyone not listening well it's your own fault.

 

[kzochert]

<<

<< although i dont like fees and such, i know they are mandatory adn glad that Paypal has the lowest fees comparably.

c2it is a special case, note that c2it is OWNED by citibank in relationship to Mastercard AND Visa, this is why THEY can afford to charge nothing to send funds via credit card, because it costs them nothing! otherwise the money would just go back to themselves.

meanwhile Paypal and Billpoint HAVE to charge u that 2% or more since that is what the credit card companies such as CitiBank charge them. otherwise they lose money on each transaction, which is why Paypal burnt thru $168 million capital last last year when it had no charges.

CCBill or CCnow or any other credit card processor will charge u average 3.95% upto 9% plus $1.00 on each transaction. far more than Paypal/Billpoint. >>



Hate to tell bud, but C2It even tough it is a subsidary of Citibank, pays transaction fees just like PayPal and BillPoint. If you have not noticed they do accept other credit cards other than Citibank cards and Citibank does not own or have any major influence over VISA or Mastercard. The c2IT service is currently free however, there is no intention to keep the C2it service free past their initial promotional period of 24 months (taken directly from Citibanks annual report). All online payment services will have to charge fees to stay in business.

...Also for those of you who do already know, PayPal, uses Wells Fargo to handle their ACH transactrions. Wells Fargo also has their own online payment service - BillPoint.

If you want to see PayPal's real financial condition and why your should be leary of PayPal or any other online payment service, read PyPal's IPO Prospectus This document is one place that PayPal or any other company cannot lie without legal conquences. After reading this prospectus., especially the risk factors section, you wonder why anyone would even use one of these services >>




Jesus !!!!! 24 months of free online transaction. That is GREAT!!!

 

[bolido2000]

After reading this thread I am starting to freak out.....
I found this on the www.paypal.com

Security is our #1 priority. That's why we provide all individuals using PayPal with SafeWeb® Insurance from Travelers Insurance. Here's what you get:
Protection against unauthorized withdrawals from your PayPal account, including unauthorized withdrawals from any checking account you may have linked to PayPal, up to $100,000.
Insurance that is instant and FREE - you don't have to apply for coverage and there is no cost to you.
Assurance that with SafeWeb Insurance and PayPal's Data Security and Encryption, your money is safe and secure.
Under applicable regulations, the extent of your liability for an unauthorized transaction is largely determined by your promptness in notifying us or your bank if someone has gained access to your password, or if a transfer or withdrawal in your monthly statement is incorrect or unauthorized. It is very important that you tell us at once if you believe your user ID or password has been compromised, or if someone has transferred or may transfer money from your account without your permission. In such a circumstance, the best way to minimize your loss is to contact us. Notifying us quickly limits your liability. Please contact PayPal with any questions or to report unauthorized transactions and file a claim.

The SafeWeb Remote Banking Insurance Master Policy issued by Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America, an underwriting company for Travelers Insurance, responds to losses that you would normally have liability for under applicable banking regulations, up to $100,000 in coverage per loss. Please see the Terms of Use for details on your responsibilities.

Text


So if someone hacks my account I have zero liability, right?? Is it the same protection as CC gives ??

 

[ShotgunSteven]

I actually got that e-mail. :Q It just went in the trash along with the other spam, though.

 

[trippy1976]

There's a similar scam going on with some Ebay stuff. I got an email that said I had won an auction or something and to come log in and do something. I knew it was stupid because I haven't bid on anything in weeks. I forwarded it to Ebay and got a response in which they cut'n'pasted the warning on their help page that you "should never log into any site but ebay.com with blah blah blah."

The page was down by mid-day, but you can bet it'll pop up again in some form. The domain was really odd (not as vanilla as paypal-login.com) so just keep an eye out.

 

[BigDoggie]

xenolith, you may be right, in the long run, that a debit card and a credit card have equivalent fraud protection. However, in the SHORT run, ie a few weeks, there is a HUGE difference. And it is exactly as I stated it initially.

If someone scams your credit card, you may not realize it until you get a bill. Despite this, you still have ALL of your money. If you protest the charges successfully, you never have to pay and you keep your money. On the other hand...

If someone scams your debit card, the money comes straight out of your checking account. It is gone, gone, GONE. You don't find out when you get a bill, you find out when you start getting bounced check notices in the mail. You get hit by your bank with NSF charges. You get hit by with bounced check fees by the businesses you wrote checks to. You could POSSIBLY even get arrested. When you finally realize what has happened, you file a protest. Then, at some time, maybe weeks in the future, you back MAY give you back your money. And you still have to hassle with the fees and the bad checks and everything.

There is a WORLD of difference.

And, for that matter, as I recall, what PayPay wants from you is NOT a debit card number, but rather an actual check so that they can establish direct EFT draft transfers. This bypasses whatever protection the fake-VISA cards have or claim to have. And leave you MORE at the mercy of your banker. Assuming that your banker has any mecry for you to be at, which is unlikely.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER authorize any on-line merchant to do direct checking account drafts. If you do, and something happens, you are SCREWED, SCREWED, SCREWED!

 

[priapos1]

Actually in both the long and short run there is an enormous difference between a debit card and a credit card. The debit card affords easy and instantaneous access to your bank account. Once the money is gone, it's gone. Usually you have very little recourse, which is why PayPal has become such an awful business to work with. Using a credit card grants you the full power of an international corportation. All you have to do is call your CC and report a fraudulent charge, and whammo, it's gone. No more heartache. PayPal has an atrocious track record when it comes to resolving this sort of thing, evidenced by years of public failures. I caution anyone who must continue to use this seedy business for online transactions to remove bank routing information. Once your bank account is emptied out by a theif, you will have next to no help from PayPal in recovering it, no matter what their website says.

People, please be advised that despite behaving like a bank in every way, this company is not a bank. They have refused to purchase a bank charter and all the necessary cost. With a charter would come bank protection. A lack of interest in purchasing a bank charter to send out enormous warning bells that this company should not have one hand in your bank account. Delete this info at the very least, close your account at best.

 

[Jfur]

It would help if we had a working and reliable phone number (and email) to report fraud to. It is important that this number actually be staffed and that phone calls/emails are returned and acted upon. I have heard from several highly frustrated people that have reported fraud in their personal accounts but have not been able to get through to PayPal via the posted information. If anyone has such contact information, please post it -- and why is this not on the PP site?

Note: I am asking about contact info that WORKS rather than just is posted.

 

[EliteForces]

i hope they catch them and TAKE AWAY ALL THEIR belongings and put them in jail forever.

 

[Damon]

Hi jfur,

You are more than welcome to have users contact me if they have issues like that. I am an additional resource that users can come to. Customer service does get extremely busy at times, which does delay response times. We also can't provide users a great deal of information on an issue like that if we don't have the documentation presented first (to prove we are talking to the correct person).

 

[serzone]

h]W(why)TF is this constantly the most-responded to post here at techbargains of late? Why are deal posts (that just maybe might point to another deal site or, heaven's forbit, a coupon code) locked when this junk goes on. THIS IS NOT A DEAL!.[/h]

People, engage your brain and look before you leap. Period. I know the dot con bombed roughly 18 months ago and 99.9 of the hot deals are forever over, but if we all try really hard we just might be able to find some. So can we forget about Shytepal and get on with what this forum is supposed to be about? Thanks.

Is the average age of a AnandTech mod 18?

 

[MrMet]

The world is no longer a safe place.

 

[Chancho]

Hi All,
FWIW...I don't know how you will ever stop the scammers, but e-commerce is here to stay.
1) One of the easiest things that you can do to avoid losing your money is to set up an online checking account soley for paypal. Many banks offer free basic checking. I have a savings account and a free checking account at the same bank. Use the checking account as the primary account at paypal. The checking account is always left at zero...hence no money for the scammers to get at. When a transaction needs to be made, just transfer the money from saving to checking online before using paypal, or from checking to savings after an payment is received. It only adds a few mintues of your time, and it's a lot easier sleeping at night.
2) As stated before by most...C/C companies won't hold you liable for fraudulent charges.
-Chancho

 

[Justincase]

Serzone: you really think it's that high? It would be surprising if the average was more than 14 :Q

 

[cuteybunny]

as far as I know, paypal never request for your logon and password throught email and then linking you to a paypal look alike websites. maybe some of us aren't listening.
There are some fools at ebay that bid on picture and thinking it's the real thing, are you one of those?
It will alway be a fraud, people it so freaking obvious that one can pretty much see throught it. The last time I got email from paypal was about their new service or policy change. Always go to www.paypal.com to log in. I am very cautious with who I am sending money to as well because I don't like to be scammed.