PBS: Daughter from Danang... a.k.a. An Uncultured, Ungrateful American

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0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
well ones in the military, the guy with the buzz cut. maybe he's in iraq right now, i dunno
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,843
9,092
136
Originally posted by: Dezign
Originally posted by: Spac3d
Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
I don't blame her one bit! Seriously, Dezign and others calling her a biatch...can you at least try to put yourself in her shoes??? No one can even imagine what she's going through. Nevermind the fact that she's a product of her foster parents and shouldn't be considered 'Asian'. Having slant-eyes doesn't mean your Asian (and she probably doesn't even have those if she's mixed)...being Asian involves a radically different definition of family compared to typical American experiences, not to mention other cultural values. Would you blame the typical American 'redneck' for not wanting to be in Vietnam???
I completely agree with you uncJIGGA.

This story reminds me of my "extended family." All they care about is the gifts and money they deserve because someone in their family lives in the US.:|

As it was explained in the documentary, it is tradition and respect for those who have been fortunate enough to make it to the USA to help their family out back in Vietnam, China, etc. They don't consider it rude when they ask for money because that's how their culture is... helping out financially is expected. It isn't all they care about, but when you live in extreme poverty and your brother or sister across the ocean is buying PS2's and eating out every night, you'd hope they could spare a least a little.

Those of us in situations such as this one (residing in the USA with extended family in Asia) are very, very lucky. We are fortunate to have what we have, and should be grateful to those who did what they could so we could be here... I know that personally, my grandmother lived in poverty with her daughter, living on almost nothing so they could afford to send my father to the USA, and consequently to a better life. He has never forgotten her sacrifices and neither have I... I have extended family in China, and I send money, gifts, etc. when I can. I never feel insulted when I'm asked for money, because I know that's just how the culture is... and if I can spare it, I'll gladly give it.
You STILL don't get it do you??? Why the hell is it HER responsibility to educate herself about Vietnamese culture? Everything YOU know about your culture, your grandmother and her struggles etc. was related to you by your parents. Reading your summary of the documentary is enough to tell me that her foster parents didn't do a damn thing to promote these cultural aspects in their household...and the fact that she told friends growing up not to tell anyone she was half-Vietnamese further shows she was made to feel 'ashamed' of this well BEFORE she ever went to Vietnam. You asked earlier what kind of fantasyland she was living in where she could forget about her biological parents--that fantasyland is the US of A!!

This is NOT a flame. I don't blame any of you for feeling disgusted by what you've seen, and frankly I would think her views are saddening to say the least. But it is wrong to single Heidi out and call her a bitch for how she feels. If you want to blame anything, blame American culture. Blame the country that taught her its all about ME ME ME and you've gotta look out for Number 1 first. Blame capitalism. Blame the South for being so 'backwards ignorant' about anything west of the Mississippi or north of Mason-Dixon. Blame white people. But you can't blame her.

 

Infos

Diamond Member
Jul 20, 2001
4,001
1
0
Missed this show.
Very sad....
she should realize that her mother made the ultimate sacrifice-
she gave up her daughter because she knew it would be a better life for her
friggin ingrate

I have seen a number of docs re this scenario and the ones I've seen are usually an uplifting experience
I guess her foster parents influenced her attitude quite a bit with their deny your heritage advice
and attitude.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,843
9,092
136
Originally posted by: atom
But according to posts, she WAS a product of Vietnam until she was 5-6. So either she repressed those memories or she deluded herself into thinking it was something totally different. It's like she was living in her own little bubble. You don't have to be raised in the culture to know what to expect when you go there. I'm about as ABC as they come, but when I went back to China a few years ago with my family for the first time I honestly wasn't that shocked at all. I expected the village my grandfather came from to be a sh!thole and well, it pretty much was.

Damn, I really wanna see this movie now.
I think you hit the nail on the head about repressing her memories. People who are raped as children can repress those memories only a few months after the incident...think about Heidi spending DECADES in America not in contact with her relatives.

You can't relate your personal experience to hers...you have Chinese parents I assume. They taught you everything you needed to know about China. Mine taught me everything I needed to know about India (and then some! ) Nuff said...

 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
Originally posted by: Dezign
Originally posted by: Spac3d
Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
I don't blame her one bit! Seriously, Dezign and others calling her a biatch...can you at least try to put yourself in her shoes??? No one can even imagine what she's going through. Nevermind the fact that she's a product of her foster parents and shouldn't be considered 'Asian'. Having slant-eyes doesn't mean your Asian (and she probably doesn't even have those if she's mixed)...being Asian involves a radically different definition of family compared to typical American experiences, not to mention other cultural values. Would you blame the typical American 'redneck' for not wanting to be in Vietnam???
I completely agree with you uncJIGGA.

This story reminds me of my "extended family." All they care about is the gifts and money they deserve because someone in their family lives in the US.:|

As it was explained in the documentary, it is tradition and respect for those who have been fortunate enough to make it to the USA to help their family out back in Vietnam, China, etc. They don't consider it rude when they ask for money because that's how their culture is... helping out financially is expected. It isn't all they care about, but when you live in extreme poverty and your brother or sister across the ocean is buying PS2's and eating out every night, you'd hope they could spare a least a little.

Those of us in situations such as this one (residing in the USA with extended family in Asia) are very, very lucky. We are fortunate to have what we have, and should be grateful to those who did what they could so we could be here... I know that personally, my grandmother lived in poverty with her daughter, living on almost nothing so they could afford to send my father to the USA, and consequently to a better life. He has never forgotten her sacrifices and neither have I... I have extended family in China, and I send money, gifts, etc. when I can. I never feel insulted when I'm asked for money, because I know that's just how the culture is... and if I can spare it, I'll gladly give it.
You STILL don't get it do you??? Why the hell is it HER responsibility to educate herself about Vietnamese culture? Everything YOU know about your culture, your grandmother and her struggles etc. was related to you by your parents. Reading your summary of the documentary is enough to tell me that her foster parents didn't do a damn thing to promote these cultural aspects in their household...and the fact that she told friends growing up not to tell anyone she was half-Vietnamese further shows she was made to feel 'ashamed' of this well BEFORE she ever went to Vietnam. You asked earlier what kind of fantasyland she was living in where she could forget about her biological parents--that fantasyland is the US of A!!

This is NOT a flame. I don't blame any of you for feeling disgusted by what you've seen, and frankly I would think her views are saddening to say the least. But it is wrong to single Heidi out and call her a bitch for how she feels. If you want to blame anything, blame American culture. Blame the country that taught her its all about ME ME ME and you've gotta look out for Number 1 first. Blame capitalism. Blame the South for being so 'backwards ignorant' about anything west of the Mississippi or north of Mason-Dixon. Blame white people. But you can't blame her.


its more a matter of maturity when in difficult social situations. you can't blame her immature behavior from being raised in the south.

just look to the other documentary for many examples against your argument that her ignorance was justified. those kids weren't raised by asian parents either. most didn't really seep their children in asian culture.
 

PlasticJesus

Senior member
Mar 16, 2001
412
0
0
It's actually asking quite a lot to expect that an American would be able to understand the ways of Southeast Asians. The people of Vietnam are not Asians; they are Southeast Asians. Plenty of Americans find them very difficult to understand and equally difficult to tolerate.

If you are an American or a white European, you will never be able to convince a SE Asian that you are anything other than a millionaire. Seeing as how you are a millionaire you shouldn't have a problem with giving your money to any SE Asian that asks. If you do not give it up, then you are rude. If they ask for it in a public forumn, and you turn them down in that same public forumn, then you have caused them to lose face and you should be quite ashamed of yourself. Never mind they brought it on themselves.

Probably the real shame is that the young woman didn't know better than to go over there. Makes as much sense as McNamara's visit to Vietnam a few years ago in an effort to come to understand Gen. Giap. What comes out of it is that you come to a realization that you are not the same kind of peoples and you never will be.

I didn't watch any more than the first five minutes or so. If the young lady actually actively complained about the uncleanliness of the market, I would have to say that that seems a bit silly. It does leave you wondering what she expected. I've seen Vietnamese markets up around San Jose that leave you wondering how they stay open.

If I were that young lady, the last thing in the world I would do is bring the mother to the United States.
 

imported_Tomato

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2002
7,608
0
0
Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
You STILL don't get it do you??? Why the hell is it HER responsibility to educate herself about Vietnamese culture? Everything YOU know about your culture, your grandmother and her struggles etc. was related to you by your parents. Reading your summary of the documentary is enough to tell me that her foster parents didn't do a damn thing to promote these cultural aspects in their household...and the fact that she told friends growing up not to tell anyone she was half-Vietnamese further shows she was made to feel 'ashamed' of this well BEFORE she ever went to Vietnam. You asked earlier what kind of fantasyland she was living in where she could forget about her biological parents--that fantasyland is the US of A!!

This is NOT a flame. I don't blame any of you for feeling disgusted by what you've seen, and frankly I would think her views are saddening to say the least. But it is wrong to single Heidi out and call her a bitch for how she feels. If you want to blame anything, blame American culture. Blame the country that taught her its all about ME ME ME and you've gotta look out for Number 1 first. Blame capitalism. Blame the South for being so 'backwards ignorant' about anything west of the Mississippi or north of Mason-Dixon. Blame white people. But you can't blame her.

*laughing at you*

Way to jump to conclusions.

Everything YOU know about your culture, your grandmother and her struggles etc. was related to you by your parents.

That was pretty audacious of you. Way to judge, Einstein. In actuality, very little of what I know about my culture came from my parents because of a language barrier... I know the basics, but they never went into details. I took it upon MYSELF to do my research... through books, through talking to other people in my situation, through talking to my parents' friends. I took it upon myself to school myself about my culture and my family's history, because I felt the need to know and respect my roots. My motivation wasn't from my parents, it was from looking in the mirror and wanting to know about my family's history, my culture's history, MY history. It was an inherit need for knowledge, and an internal motivation to educate myself...

I don't consider your post a flame because you make some valid points, but don't assume anything about me.
 

newbiepcuser

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2001
4,474
0
0
You STILL don't get it do you??? Why the hell is it HER responsibility to educate herself about Vietnamese culture? Everything YOU know about your culture, your grandmother and her struggles etc. was related to you by your parents. Reading your summary of the documentary is enough to tell me that her foster parents didn't do a damn thing to promote these cultural aspects in their household...and the fact that she told friends growing up not to tell anyone she was half-Vietnamese further shows she was made to feel 'ashamed' of this well BEFORE she ever went to Vietnam. You asked earlier what kind of fantasyland she was living in where she could forget about her biological parents--that fantasyland is the US of A!!

This is NOT a flame. I don't blame any of you for feeling disgusted by what you've seen, and frankly I would think her views are saddening to say the least. But it is wrong to single Heidi out and call her a bitch for how she feels. If you want to blame anything, blame American culture. Blame the country that taught her its all about ME ME ME and you've gotta look out for Number 1 first. Blame capitalism. Blame the South for being so 'backwards ignorant' about anything west of the Mississippi or north of Mason-Dixon. Blame white people. But you can't blame her.

I completely agree.

I'm of Vietnamese/Chinese decent. How can we flame her for being "uncultured", she was raised the way she was. When my mother or any of my relatives visit the motherland, they are expected to bring cash gifts. When my close Taiwanese friend went back to Taiwan for the New Year, she gave her in-laws and relatives money. Why, cause we were raised that way.

I'm disgusted by her treatment of her biological mother, but she was raised that way. That is her up bringing. How many of you out there actually know your culture and just don't get glimpes from a PBS speacial or quick 30 min show on the discovery channels? She made an attempt, and it was culture shock from her own. She is probably angry cause she couldn't she coudln't embrace it and was riddle with guilt.




 

Spac3d

Banned
Jul 3, 2001
6,651
1
0
Originally posted by: Dezign
Originally posted by: Spac3d
Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
I don't blame her one bit! Seriously, Dezign and others calling her a biatch...can you at least try to put yourself in her shoes??? No one can even imagine what she's going through. Nevermind the fact that she's a product of her foster parents and shouldn't be considered 'Asian'. Having slant-eyes doesn't mean your Asian (and she probably doesn't even have those if she's mixed)...being Asian involves a radically different definition of family compared to typical American experiences, not to mention other cultural values. Would you blame the typical American 'redneck' for not wanting to be in Vietnam???
I completely agree with you uncJIGGA.

This story reminds me of my "extended family." All they care about is the gifts and money they deserve because someone in their family lives in the US.:|

As it was explained in the documentary, it is tradition and respect for those who have been fortunate enough to make it to the USA to help their family out back in Vietnam, China, etc. They don't consider it rude when they ask for money because that's how their culture is... helping out financially is expected. It isn't all they care about, but when you live in extreme poverty and your brother or sister across the ocean is buying PS2's and eating out every night, you'd hope they could spare a least a little.
Maybe your family doesnt demand as much money as my extended family does. Every single one of them wants money for this or that. Some of my family asks because they want to hire another cook or get another servant. Then the others that ask for money live in rural as fukc India where they only have power a few hours a day, dont have paved roads, dont have indoor plumbing, etc.

I didn't see the documentary, but I can see how she is relating to those strangers. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth when your family treats you like that ... it is shocking enough to go to some rural part of a third world country... let alone deal with your family.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,941
5
0
You STILL don't get it do you??? Why the hell is it HER responsibility to educate herself about Vietnamese culture? Everything YOU know about your culture, your grandmother and her struggles etc. was related to you by your parents. Reading your summary of the documentary is enough to tell me that her foster parents didn't do a damn thing to promote these cultural aspects in their household...and the fact that she told friends growing up not to tell anyone she was half-Vietnamese further shows she was made to feel 'ashamed' of this well BEFORE she ever went to Vietnam. You asked earlier what kind of fantasyland she was living in where she could forget about her biological parents--that fantasyland is the US of A!!

This is NOT a flame. I don't blame any of you for feeling disgusted by what you've seen, and frankly I would think her views are saddening to say the least. But it is wrong to single Heidi out and call her a bitch for how she feels. If you want to blame anything, blame American culture. Blame the country that taught her its all about ME ME ME and you've gotta look out for Number 1 first. Blame capitalism. Blame the South for being so 'backwards ignorant' about anything west of the Mississippi or north of Mason-Dixon. Blame white people. But you can't blame her.

Doesn't anybody in the US ever take responsibilities for their own behavior anymore? I'm a student of psychology, so i know all about the role of environment on personality and behavior, but doesn't anybody take responsibility for their own behavior anymore?
 

imported_Tomato

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2002
7,608
0
0
Originally posted by: Infos
Missed this show.
Very sad....
she should realize that her mother made the ultimate sacrifice-
she gave up her daughter because she knew it would be a better life for her
friggin ingrate

I have seen a number of docs re this scenario and the ones I've seen are usually an uplifting experience
I guess her foster parents influenced her attitude quite a bit with their deny your heritage advice
and attitude.

Exactly. How could she be so stupid/shallow as to not take at least SOME time to reflect on her past... what happened should not be forgotten (she admitted she still had memories, but she conciously supressed them). Brushing off her past and her experience in Vietnam just shows she has no respect for her birthmother, the sacrifices her mother made for her, etc. Those stories and that history won't be passed on to her kids, which isn't fair for them. I don't know. Apparently Heidi just doesn't like thinking... I still stand by the impression she gave me... a selfish, ignorant, airheaded flake who has disgraced her mother and family in the documentary.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
its not all asian countries maybe the poorer bits that expect gifts. if you visit relatives in hong kong or somethign its not expected.

course hk is developed, vietnam is still a sinkhole
 

imported_Tomato

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2002
7,608
0
0
Originally posted by: Spac3d
Originally posted by: Dezign
Originally posted by: Spac3d
Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
I don't blame her one bit! Seriously, Dezign and others calling her a biatch...can you at least try to put yourself in her shoes??? No one can even imagine what she's going through. Nevermind the fact that she's a product of her foster parents and shouldn't be considered 'Asian'. Having slant-eyes doesn't mean your Asian (and she probably doesn't even have those if she's mixed)...being Asian involves a radically different definition of family compared to typical American experiences, not to mention other cultural values. Would you blame the typical American 'redneck' for not wanting to be in Vietnam???
I completely agree with you uncJIGGA.

This story reminds me of my "extended family." All they care about is the gifts and money they deserve because someone in their family lives in the US.:|

As it was explained in the documentary, it is tradition and respect for those who have been fortunate enough to make it to the USA to help their family out back in Vietnam, China, etc. They don't consider it rude when they ask for money because that's how their culture is... helping out financially is expected. It isn't all they care about, but when you live in extreme poverty and your brother or sister across the ocean is buying PS2's and eating out every night, you'd hope they could spare a least a little.
Maybe your family doesnt demand as much money as my extended family does. Every single one of them wants money for this or that. Some of my family asks because they want to hire another cook or get another servant. Then the others that ask for money live in rural as fukc India where they only have power a few hours a day, dont have paved roads, dont have indoor plumbing, etc.

I didn't see the documentary, but I can see how she is relating to those strangers. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth when your family treats you like that ... it is shocking enough to go to some rural part of a third world country... let alone deal with your family.

Okay, there's a difference between gratitude and greed. Sounds like your family's situation is different than mine (they want another cook or servant? gak... I'm talking about the basic necessities, money for food and shelter). Thanks for the clarification, I was speaking generally with my response...
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,941
5
0
That was pretty audacious of you. Way to judge, Einstein. In actuality, very little of what I know about my culture came from my parents because of a language barrier... I know the basics, but they never went into details. I took it upon MYSELF to do my research... through books, through talking to other people in my situation, through talking to my parents' friends. I took it upon myself to school myself about my culture and my family's history, because I felt the need to know and respect my roots. My motivation wasn't from my parents, it was from looking in the mirror and wanting to know about my family's history, my culture's history, MY history. It was an inherit need for knowledge, and an internal motivation to educate myself...

We're very similar. Everything my parents taught me about my own culture, i could literally fill maybe 2 pages full. Everything else, i learned from my own pursuit.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,843
9,092
136
Originally posted by: Moralpanic
That was pretty audacious of you. Way to judge, Einstein. In actuality, very little of what I know about my culture came from my parents because of a language barrier... I know the basics, but they never went into details. I took it upon MYSELF to do my research... through books, through talking to other people in my situation, through talking to my parents' friends. I took it upon myself to school myself about my culture and my family's history, because I felt the need to know and respect my roots. My motivation wasn't from my parents, it was from looking in the mirror and wanting to know about my family's history, my culture's history, MY history. It was an inherit need for knowledge, and an internal motivation to educate myself...

We're very similar. Everything my parents taught me about my own culture, i could literally fill maybe 2 pages full. Everything else, i learned from my own pursuit.
But who taught you that self-education and knowledge were important pursuits in life?? Sure, your parents might not have 'explicitly' demanded this of you, but we all know Asian parents stress education, grades, studying etc. more than the average American parents (and moreso than average Southern parents--that's NOT just a stereotype!) I'm going to make another assumption so don't shoot me--but I think both of you are full-blooded Asians, and not mixed blood like Heidi. In her mind, she comes from whatever American town she grew up in, and her foster parents and their family are her background.

 

OS

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
15,581
1
76
I hope she will reconsider her response with time. Ignorance as an excuse only works one time for the same situation.

Also those of you saying it's wrong to ask for money, you should consider the massive difference in earnings in the US vs Vietnam. A quick search on google says the GDP per capita in vietnam is ~2K USD. In the US, that same indicator is ~30K. link

If she's working, I don't think it's really too much to ask that she sends say 50-100 dollars a month. To most middle class americans, that's like not getting cable TV, but to a family in vietnam, that could mean the difference between going to bed hungry and having food on the table.
 

TrueBlueLS

Platinum Member
Jul 13, 2001
2,932
1
0
It is really sad that she would have such a reaction. I can understand the differences in living between here and there, but at least try to be a little bit more considerate about your true family.
 

SSP

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
17,736
0
0
WOW, a simple no would have been a better answer.

I can understand she didnt want to take care of her mother who she just met... but being all bent out of shape just to support one person... geez, an american dollar can go a long way there.
 

brjames

Member
Apr 25, 2001
168
0
0
You all are incredibly arrogant. No person here was in that situation. It was an extreme culture shock which she was unprepared for, and I can't blame her for her reaction. She definitly could have reacted with more grace, but when your shocked you dont react in the best way.
And don't blame her for her unrealistic expectations of her mother either, its very typical in human nature to want to meet the person who gave birth to you. My sister was adopted and she eventually wanted to meet her birth mother again. They even lived together for a while, until my sister realized that her birth mother was a complete, selfish ditz and kicked her out.
I'm also hearing a lot of complaints against the father for not raising her in Vietnamese traditions. Well why should he? Was she raised in Vietnam? Is he in Vietnam? If he imparted his own culture to her and not some culture foreign to him, I can hardly blame him, she is still half-white, not just half-vietnamese.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
sorta related, but a reminder that the chinese american experience series gets replayed on channel 54 bay area starting tommrow.

the thread on it


and also started by dezign i see.
 

imported_Tomato

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2002
7,608
0
0
Originally posted by: brjames
I'm also hearing a lot of complaints against the father for not raising her in Vietnamese traditions. Well why should he? Was she raised in Vietnam? Is he in Vietnam? If he imparted his own culture to her and not some culture foreign to him, I can hardly blame him, she is still half-white, not just half-vietnamese.

Huh?

Uh... Heidi's American father left her mother when she was 4 months pregnant.

Heidi was adopted by a single mother in the States.
 

newbiepcuser

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2001
4,474
0
0
Originally posted by: brjames
You all are incredibly arrogant. No person here was in that situation. It was an extreme culture shock which she was unprepared for, and I can't blame her for her reaction. She definitly could have reacted with more grace, but when your shocked you dont react in the best way.
And don't blame her for her unrealistic expectations of her mother either, its very typical in human nature to want to meet the person who gave birth to you. My sister was adopted and she eventually wanted to meet her birth mother again. They even lived together for a while, until my sister realized that her birth mother was a complete, selfish ditz and kicked her out.
I'm also hearing a lot of complaints against the father for not raising her in Vietnamese traditions. Well why should he? Was she raised in Vietnam? Is he in Vietnam? If he imparted his own culture to her and not some culture foreign to him, I can hardly blame him, she is still half-white, not just half-vietnamese.

You obviously didn't read everybody's posts, so who is arrogant one?
 

AvesPKS

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
4,729
0
0
Man, you guys should watch how you throw around that Mason-Dixon Line...

One other thing: one of the things I've experienced from visiting other countries/cultures is a greater appreciation for my own.
 
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