PC Gaming Doom & Gloom Thread

[Pacemaker]

Both PC Gaming and Console gaming have their place in the world. As long as there are PCs there will be games. The average PC game does not require a 600 dollar video card or a 5k PC. There will always be people who want to play games in 1600x1200 (or higher) with 8x AA and 16x AF, but a console can't do that anyway so that argument is silly.

The computer I use to game was built about 4 years ago and it still plays every game I ask it to. Can I turn on all the eye candy? No. Can I play in max resolution? No. Does it look as good as current consoles? No, but I did buy the thing 4 years ago and it wasn't top of the line then. Even though it cost me more when I bought it than the consoles currently out would cost me now, I have done much more on it than just game. The one thing I wouldn't have gotten had I not been a gamer was the video card and it only cost 200 and I got a free copy of half-life 2 that I was going to buy anyway (bet you can guess what card it is).

This is not to say I don't play and enjoy what consoles bring to the table. I like playing a good game regardless of what system it is on. There is nothing better than getting a few friends together and playing a console game (except maybe a LAN party which requires much more work on the part of the attendees). I really think there is a place for both console games and PC games in the marketplace.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Noema

Originally posted by: Engraver
Consoles will eventually have full mouse and keyboard support, and most likely peripheral support for printers and such. Then maybe some time after that, they'll make interchangeable hardware modules for consoles, to increase graphic and processing power. If things end up like that, you may even have to put your console on a desk just so your mouse, keyboard, and peripherals are within reach. Now that I think of it this setup sounds rather familiar...

While I agree that consoles will offer even more PC-like functionality in the future, I disagree about the bolded part.

The strenght of a console, and what makes it so attractive for both consumers and developers is the fact that all of them are the same. All xbox 360s and PS3es are essentially the same (different models notwithstanding; the differences are mainly just HDD size and that doesn't impact performancE). Since the developer can safely assume that all 360s have the same CPU and GPU hardware, a level of optimization can be achieved that would be impossible on PC with its myriad hardware configurations, and thick HAL to ensure compatibility. A 8800GTX is exponentially more powerful than the 360GPU, which is essentially a X1800XT, yet games on 360 look much, much better than what a X1800XT on a PC would be able to pump out.

That's how it has been, but it's changing already. If you look at the 360, you can add many peripherals to it, such as HD-DVD drive, wireless adapter, HDDs, etc. I wouldn't be surprise that the next generation, or the one after that, we'll have modular GPUs and CPUs as well. That was one of the hype with the cell processor when it was first announced.

 

[potato28]

PC gaming won't die out any time soon, unless everyone turns into apes and starts using Macs.

 

[SniperWulf]

I swear... some of you guys just don't get it... or are in denial... Just like dmcowen said, its all about the money. The PC IS the bastard child of the gaming industry these days. True enough there are some nice titles coming out, but its no where near the volume of old and certianly no where near the volume that the console has today. Say all you want about higher resolutions, AA, blah blah blah. The more sophisticated the console gets, the more those points that used to be unique to the PC are moot. Just like Karsten said, give the console a KB and mouse for FPS games and your set.

 

[Karsten]

Originally posted by: apoppin
if you only play 20 games a year [20 x5 years x $10] ... you will spend at least $1,000 more for console games then PC games over its five year life. ... probably closer to $1500 more or $2,000 for your console and games [never mind the accessories or Big TV]. And a console only looks as good as the PC for the first 1/5th to 2/5ths of it's life ... it's all downhill for the console after day one

un-upgradeable and overpriced games that have no mods ... yep, that IS the PC wannabe ... and quite a few PC gamers also output their games to a 42" Big Screen if they like it.

Price... does you no good if you end up with things like this:

A great game not in disguise, unfortunately Transformers is a simultaneous multiplatform release, as evidenced by the lack of mouse support in menus and omission of an in-game brightness slider. However, for a console-to-PC port, the control customization options are better than average. The mailed-in porting of the graphics engine to PC graphics APIs means that the advanced hardware capabilities of the PC aren't put to use. A promised destructible world doesn't deliver any excitement or add any significant gameplay advantage. These issues aren't necessarily game-killers, though, but bugs which prevent successful completion of missions are. A number of times, I would destroy a building which I needed to climb to complete an objective. Activision's site lists this and a number of other potential scenarios in which ancillary actions prevent completion of a mission. Sure, it's realistic, but a player shouldn't be able to tamper with crucial gameplay elements. And the Hi-Res / Shadows conflict? Please... that's just poor coding on the part of the developers, who were no doubt pressured to get the PC release on store shelves immediately following the film release.

As a childhood fan of everything Transformers, I've been waiting for an entertaining game which captures the Transformers universe. Unfortunately, Transformers: The Game doesn't satiate my inner child, and fans are left waiting for a respectable Transformers title. There's no lack of source material, and the license begs for more than this game delivers. It's telling that the PC release is priced at a value $19.99 U.S. price point; on top of the basic and at times frustrating gameplay, the visuals are sub-par and its controls are barely passable. More than meets the eye? Not here. Transformers: The Game barely lives up to the notion of what defines a video game.

The influence of the console on game development is one source of much crap that we will see from here on out. Or already have seen. Cheap, quick and dirty ports. Great, now I only have to play 20 bucks for crap.

I am with you guys. I have seen these posts before myself and didn't give them much credance. That is why I tried to point out that ALL of the things I pointed out are working together to make for a bad combination for PC gaming.

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: Hacp
As long as parents think that computers are educational tools, there will always be PC games.

Yea, every smart kid should have a good gaming PC. "Dad I need a 3d card if I ever want to learn to be an engineer."

 

[CKent]

I have to wonder who's paying the OP - Microsoft or Sony. A console is just a non-upgradable PC which can't do anything besides play games. In the last couple years of their life cycles, they actively hold back graphics & gameplay advances, as we can see with GTA: Vice City and San Andreas, developed for the ancient PS2 when they had so much potential if only they'd been developed on the PC and then ported to Sony's old parts box, the ps2 :frown:

Oh, and ever heard of RTSs? FPSs? MMORPGs? World of Warcraft alone has nearly 10 million players. Load that on your xbox.

Price? I just built a blazing new PC for $475.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: G Wizard

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
LMAO you lost me at "deathnail" :laugh:

KT

lol, same here.

OP the correct phrase is 'death knell'

"The knell in the coffin!"

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: SniperWulf
I swear... some of you guys just don't get it... or are in denial... Just like dmcowen said, its all about the money. The PC IS the bastard child of the gaming industry these days. True enough there are some nice titles coming out, but its no where near the volume of old and certianly no where near the volume that the console has today. Say all you want about higher resolutions, AA, blah blah blah. The more sophisticated the console gets, the more those points that used to be unique to the PC are moot. Just like Karsten said, give the console a KB and mouse for FPS games and your set.

Well, do you have numbers to back up that PC gaming is dying (or 'no where ear the volume of old')? Just because console games may increase, doesn't necessarily mean PC gaming is decreasing. This isn't a zero sum game... and especially with MMOs bringing in a new demographic that would never game in the first place, i see it as growing.

I'm not in denial. I still game on my laptop with a 6800Go Ultra... and not game very well obviously. Mostly MMOs that are easy on my system. I much prefer gaming on the console on a nice 42" LCD display.

I've been gaming since the Commodore 64 days, when i would go to the library and pick up a book on 'gaming', and code it into the system to play the game. Year after year, the PC gaming section in the stores has only grown, not shrunk (even with the shrinking of the size of the gaming box).

 

[Ichigo]

All modern consoles excluding Wii have the ability to connect to computer monitors. Did you guys forget or did ignoring the facts seem attractive?

Also, the computer that was listed for ~$600 does not include speakers, a mouse, a keyboard, and an optical drive. Yes these can be had for rather cheap, but considering the amount of people in the peripheral forum talking about $50 mice, these things can't just be omitted.

Also, I'd like to see how well that computer runs Rainbow 6: Vegas at "maximum settings".

There's a place for PC's and consoles, but the argument of price/ease of use goes to the console every time.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: mnikkel55
Christ people, it's a f***ing cycle. Consoles get a surge of popularity at the beginning of every new generation and PC's get a surge of popularity at the end of every console generation. It's been going that way for the last 20 years and all that time people keep spewing the same crap about how the console/PC is on its last legs. Those people haven't been right for two decades and they aren't right now. Neither platform is dying, neither platform is 'winning'. Why would anyone want them to? Have the last two decades of gaming been so awful that the system as it is really needs to change?

agreed with everything except what is in bold
... yes, it needs to change

 

[coloumb]

My Dad says PC's are nothing more than a passing fad. He's been saying that since the first day I brought home a TI-99/4a. He's a member of the secret society of the falling sky club. Every year, they randomly post the same doomsday message in hopes to kill off pc gaming...

 

[Karsten]

The Perfect Storm

PC gaming is in a lot of trouble, so much in trouble that I am fearing we won?t see much like the current PC gaming market in 4-6 years from now. You might think that this is a little drastic but things are coming together at the moment that seem to spell the potential death nail for PC gaming as we know it and enjoyed it for the last 10 years.

Forces that influence this trend are the following:

• Consoles
  • -Become cheaper than one or two parts you need to run your favorite game on the PC
    -Are more popular with Software Creators because the impression is there is less piracy on the console
    -Finally are high def and look cool on your dads big screen
  
  Poor console ports on the PC
  • -Who can blame the Software guys. Since the XBOX is essentially a PC it is very easy to port games. Never mind that most ports stink and what makes them great on the console makes them annoying on the PC. So we have to deal with Games that are looked to certain resolutions. Menus that won?t work right or are difficult to deal with
    -Why pay for the hardware on the PC for something that works better on the console and is cheaper
  
  Hardware
  • -NVIDIA: Much like Intel needs it?s AMD to push development and innovation, NVIDIA needs it?s ATI. But ATI is pretty much off the radar since AMD purchased it for their workstation strategy and I doubt that it will be much of a competition for a while to come, if ever again.
    The fallout of this lack of competition is the following:
    • -Poor new generation cards that are overpriced (8800gtx Ultra) or a disappointment compared to what happened when the 7000 generation hit the market (8600GT anyone).
      Poor drivers (How long do we have to wait till NVIDIA releases working Vista drivers for their flagship cards? SLI with my 8800gtx?s is still broken)
      -Most likely a slow down in innovation and new generation cards
      -New generation cards will push the price button even more, in a time of $500 plus high end cards that is a scary proposition
    -Yes, the PC can make things look so much better, but is $1-1.5k worth having to deal with bad game ports
    -All that is needed is a Mouse and a Keyboard for the 360 and we have eliminated a lot of frustration from the FPS gamer that never really would consider switching to the console
  Software Companies
  • -Perfect example Blizzard. They always made great games and I can remember drooling over previews off Warcraft II month before it came out.
    Starcarft made RTS easy to pick up and hard to master, lots of fun!
    WoW however was the near death nail for a lot of folks enjoying a variety of other game types. I have many friends that never play much other games anymore. Aside from that a lot of other gaming companies drooled over the potential of having users pay a monthly fee and are pouring all their effort to copy the WoW concept.
    -EA the Microsoft of Entertainment Software seems to lean more and more towards the console. And in a time where your stock rating of the month dictates the bonuses for the executives are we surprised by the boring sequel machine that is NBA this, Madden that and NHL extra. What do the 12-18 year olds know. Let?s put in a few new features and rename the players and voila you have another year of ? (insert the sport of your choosing) covered
    -Battlefield is another EA tragedy. Once the one to rule them all, now a simple cash cow that fails to impress with every new and sorry release that is more buggy then the last. And too add insult to injury tried to install spyware on your computer with its last version
    -What once used to be the Flagship of PC gaming all the sudden is a Console game only ?Medal of Honor and Call of Duty is the best example
  
  Microsoft
  • -DX10 and Vista. We know that the excuse that DX10 was not possible for XP is not true. MS simple tried to make it another special treat for Vista
    -Trying to charge for services that have been free on the PC for years (Games for Windows ? LIVE)
    Lack of support for the ?Games for Windows? initiative. E3, once the Flagship for PC gaming is now a Console fest. E3 was in trouble anyway but if you have followed the 2007 E3 you will be hard pressed to find PC games covered. Talk about getting pushed to the sidelines. MS is not the only one, but certainly the big influence of this trend
  Media Coverage
  • -G4 TV anyone?
    -Mediocre game reviews in mainstream media that focuses more and more on console games
  
  All of this coming together spells serious trouble for good PC titles. We will have more and more simplified games. Games like Poker games or Bejeweled will rule and prosper. While Games that made the PC great as a Gaming Platform, Starcraft, Privateer, Wing Commander, Battlefield, Metal of Honor, Call of Duty, Civilisation will be too expensive to produce or too costly for the user to justify the cost for the PC parts.
  
  What do you think? Am I right? Did I forget something? Am I wrong?

 

[tigersty1e]

Originally posted by: Oyeve
WE, the consumers, control the market. We are the ones who call the shots. if you feel PC gaming is dying then it is because YOU are killing it! DONT buy console games, by only PC games. Make a change. Down with the man, blah blah blah.

That makes sense on paper, but nobody wants to buy a crappy game. Rainbow six used to be PC's flagship tactical similation. What happened to it? The PC gamers made the game and franchise popular. Now it's complete garbage. Bottom line is the devs killed the game. We dont' call the shots.



PC gaming will never die because everyone owns a PC.

 

[fierydemise]

It seems that people have been declaring the death of PC gaming for years and if anything PC gaming is on the up swing. First of all Microsoft is attempting to bring console like simplicity to the PC, Games for Windows and Vista are going to be incredible for PC gaming. First of all DX10 has much stricter requirements for DX10 compatibility, this means that consumers will no longer have to contend with the patchwork quilt of features that marred previous generations of video cards. Secondly Games for Windows is greatly simplifying PC gaming, "Tray and Play" has a lot of potential to simplify installation which can be daunting for some people, it also will make system requirements easier to deal with by making it as simple as looking at your PC's performance score. Third, Games for Windows LIVE although it isn't very mature it has the potential to create a unified multiplayer platform and make multiplayer much easier for the average user. Finally the movement toward unification of APIs for the Xbox360 and Vista makes porting much easier, meaning that PCs will get more of the successful (and presumably good) console games.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
The number one reason that PC gaming will never die is that anyone can make a PC game. With the various programming languages freely available, as well as the many free game engines, not to mention mod tools for many popular and unpopular games, its easy to see. Even if every major developer ceased all PC game production, there would still be mods, conversations, and new games built on existing engines. Eventually, some enterprising group of people would organize and release a new PC game, and kick start the next PC game revolution.

I agree

 

[MikeyLSU]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
#1 - PC's have been getting cheaper, while consoles more expensive. i can build a $600 gaming machine with ease.

Post a $600 gaming machine that is capable pf pushing modern games at console resolutions with extremely high details (at least 1920x1080).

Originally posted by: CKent
Price? I just built a blazing new PC for $475.

Was that an entirely new PC including everything, or did you just buy a new motherboard, CPU and videocard? And if you did a whole new PC from scratch, what resolution is it capable of playing in with high details on modern games?



Don't get me wrong, I don't think PC gaming is dying. I started years ago with PC gaming on a 386. I just don't think that PC gaming is the best ever anymore. The consoles are getting more sophisticated, more powerful, and more fun to play. I already think the consoles are on-par with PCs. Bioshock is supposed to look the same between a high-end PC and the Xbox360.

One thing that consoles get right that PCs still have yet to do is pure digital surround sound. It's an analog mish-mash of cables strewn everywhere on a PC, but all I need for my 360 is a single optical cable. And don't give me that nonsense of "some cards to DD on the fly!" because as far as I'm concerned, it should either be a hardware level feature of every card, or every game should put out a DD\DTS audio stream of some kind. :frown:

As I posted earlier:

AMD X2 4000+ Brisbane - $70
2GB (1GBx2) Corsair XMS2 DDR2-675 (4-4-4-12) - $85
Biostar tForce 550 SE Motherboard - $73
Sapphire X1950XT 256MB - $145
Western Digital 160GB HDD - $49
Antec Solo Mid-tower Case - $45
Vista Home Premium OEM - $112
Total: $579

If you want to "equal" a console, all you need is a PC capable of 720p, and this $579 PC would be more than capable of that; it would be good for even 1280x1024, or 1680x1050 with slightly reduced detail. Console games are not 1920x1080p... 1080i is different and not nearly as demanding. Neither the PS3 or 360 feature any large selection of games in 1080p. Most of those that are 1080p are very simple titles that don't push the system's capabilities.

You can also factor in the price of a display; a good, 20" monitor only costs $200-300, a good HDTV costs $500-$1000. Console gaming isn't so cheap when you factor in the cost of an HDTV.

I agree with you on everything until the end about TVs and Monitors. Big difference is a TV will be used a ton more outside of gaming with TV/Movies. While a Monitor is used only for the computer.

But the rest is easily correct, I built a computer for my brother with similar specs that can run any game I have tried at full settings(resolution is at 1280x1024 because of a 19" LCD Monitor)

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
#1 - PC's have been getting cheaper, while consoles more expensive. i can build a $600 gaming machine with ease.

Post a $600 gaming machine that is capable pf pushing modern games at console resolutions with extremely high details (at least 1920x1080).

Originally posted by: CKent
Price? I just built a blazing new PC for $475.

Was that an entirely new PC including everything, or did you just buy a new motherboard, CPU and videocard? And if you did a whole new PC from scratch, what resolution is it capable of playing in with high details on modern games?



Don't get me wrong, I don't think PC gaming is dying. I started years ago with PC gaming on a 386. I just don't think that PC gaming is the best ever anymore. The consoles are getting more sophisticated, more powerful, and more fun to play. I already think the consoles are on-par with PCs. Bioshock is supposed to look the same between a high-end PC and the Xbox360.

One thing that consoles get right that PCs still have yet to do is pure digital surround sound. It's an analog mish-mash of cables strewn everywhere on a PC, but all I need for my 360 is a single optical cable. And don't give me that nonsense of "some cards to DD on the fly!" because as far as I'm concerned, it should either be a hardware level feature of every card, or every game should put out a DD\DTS audio stream of some kind. :frown:

As I posted earlier:

AMD X2 4000+ Brisbane - $70
2GB (1GBx2) Corsair XMS2 DDR2-675 (4-4-4-12) - $85
Biostar tForce 550 SE Motherboard - $73
Sapphire X1950XT 256MB - $145
Western Digital 160GB HDD - $49
Antec Solo Mid-tower Case - $45
Vista Home Premium OEM - $112
Total: $579

If you want to "equal" a console, all you need is a PC capable of 720p, and this $579 PC would be more than capable of that; it would be good for even 1280x1024, or 1680x1050 with slightly reduced detail. Console games are not 1920x1080p... 1080i is different and not nearly as demanding. Neither the PS3 or 360 feature any large selection of games in 1080p. Most of those that are 1080p are very simple titles that don't push the system's capabilities.

You can also factor in the price of a display; a good, 20" monitor only costs $200-300, a good HDTV costs $500-$1000. Console gaming isn't so cheap when you factor in the cost of an HDTV.

I agree with you on everything until the end about TVs and Monitors. Big difference is a TV will be used a ton more outside of gaming with TV/Movies. While a Monitor is used only for the computer.

But the rest is easily correct, I built a computer for my brother with similar specs that can run any game I have tried at full settings(resolution is at 1280x1024 because of a 19" LCD Monitor)

The monitor is still used for more than gaming. I use my PC a lot more than my TV, and I end up getting more non-gaming use out of my monitor than TV. My TV cost $900 meanwhile I paid $200 for my monitor.

You're right, you need a TV even if you don't game. You could argue that you don't need an HDTV for non-gaming, however. With so many few HD channels, I'd definately regret spending that much on an HDTV if I didn't get so much use out of it with the PS3/360.

 

[Adn4n]

STARCRAFT 2, Counter-Strike. I've said enough.

 

[CaptainJackSwallows]

how is WoW working against PC gaming ? it's a PC game, regardless if people play or don't play anything else, they are still playing on their PC rather than a console.

 

[Karsten]

Don't get me wrong guys. I am VERY sad about this trend. I am the last that wants to deal with the console. I don't like it for anything but sports games. I want to see the PC succed. I want it to stay arround. But all of the things I mentioned have come together that form a downward spiral. One or two pints we could deal with, but all of this comming together speels real danger for the PC as a GOOD gaming platform.

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
#1 - PC's have been getting cheaper, while consoles more expensive. i can build a $600 gaming machine with ease.

Games you play on a $600 PC are looking worse then on a console. I own a Computer Shop, I know the hardware I can buy cheaper then most of you. NO WAY is this even a worthwhile system.

#2 - WTF watches g4? it's terrible programming all around, unless you enjoy cops (which my brother does)

Agreed, but this was just to point out the terrible coverage. That is what the kiddies watch.

#3 - DAAMIT might be in a slump right now, but I have no doubt they will pull things back together....eventually.

I hope so, I really do!

#4 - yes, EA sucks. Blizzard has been doing fine. WoW has more players than owners of consoles (or something like that0. Small studios will be the ones pushing innovation - Crytek, Flagship, etc.

Blizzard is somewhat to blame for one of the points. Not sure if I made myself clear. They opened the pandorras box with WoW. So much development bucks go into trying to clone WoW. That takes away from inovation from other games.

#5 - GFW also sucks, and I don't think it's a necessary service by any means. DX10 will hopefully improve code efficiency in games, but I don't expect it to be a "savior" by any means - I'll leave that to devs who make quality games.

It was hailed by development and press "MS standing by the PC as a viable Platform... blah blah". What has come so far is a disapointment.


Last but not least... Modern Warfare... Looks nice doesn't it! Have you seen any video, as a matter of fact any coverage about the PC version? I haven't, at least not much beond "It will be released on PC". Every video I saw was made with gameplay from the console. Not one video or article went into what is going to be better on the PC that I saw. If you seen one please point it out. I love a good FPS, I love the look of Modern Warfare, but I fear what we will see is just another clunky port! I don't like it, I FEAR it!

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: sandorski
The only thing on a "deathnail" seems to be the English language.

Yep, the proper word/phrase is death knell.

 

[QueBert]

console GAMES are expensive, Transformers is a craptastic game and cost 60 bucks for the Xbox360, you can get the same craptastic crapness in PC form for 30 bucks. If you buy a decent amount of games you can save money in the long run.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: SniperWulf
I swear... some of you guys just don't get it... or are in denial... Just like dmcowen said, its all about the money.

You're quoting a dunderhead as support?

The PC IS the bastard child of the gaming industry these days. True enough there are some nice titles coming out, but its no where near the volume of old and certianly no where near the volume that the console has today.

Come on dude, I was around for the birth of PC gaming and there was never a deluge pf games coming down the pipe week. I barely have the time to enjoy the games I buy now, but I should be freaked out about EVERY new game not being for the PC?

Say all you want about higher resolutions, AA, blah blah blah.

Uh oh! Another luddite!

The more sophisticated the console gets, the more those points that used to be unique to the PC are moot.

Yup, and PC tech is standing still while consoles forge new frontiers, right?

PC gaming is being forced to adapt for a few reasons. I think these two standout:

1. Consoles are easy, like breast milk. They are truly plug-and-play which appeals to a lot of people, and that's okay.

2. Consoles represent a fixed target for developers. This means far fewer irrate users with Pentium 2's and Voodoo video stinking up bandwidth with complaints about how the latest games won't run well under minimum requirements. This is the fault of PC gamers and has been a long-term issue.

Is PC gaming to (gasp) die??? Nope. Not as long as the massive sums of money spent on electronic entertainment continues to grow.

Just like Karsten said, give the console a KB and mouse for FPS games and your set.

Yeah, but suppose the user prefers a controller? Loads of people do. This really doesn't have to be a PC gamer v. console gamer thing, does it?

 

[Bateluer]

The number one reason that PC gaming will never die is that anyone can make a PC game. With the various programming languages freely available, as well as the many free game engines, not to mention mod tools for many popular and unpopular games, its easy to see. Even if every major developer ceased all PC game production, there would still be mods, conversations, and new games built on existing engines. Eventually, some enterprising group of people would organize and release a new PC game, and kick start the next PC game revolution.