PC Gaming vs Console Gaming...

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BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
I'm just curious to see if console gaming will ever cause an end to PC gaming?

The inverse of that is already happening, although some die hard platform loyalists would be rather loathe to admit it.

Take a game like Batman. Development costs exceed $20Million, the majority of this is asset and content creation, licensing and promotional expenses. The actual coding of the game, while a very real cost, isn't close to the largest factor. Because of this, a game like Batman can be ported from the consoles to the PC and the potential lower sales aren't a major concern as you only need to worry about recovering the costs to port the game, not the more expensive elements which the console ports will handle the costs of. If a game such as Batman ran $1Million to port, sales of 300K units would make the game quite profitable, while it would need to sell closer to 1Million copies if it was an exclusive(which the console ports both will). Batman is just a singular example, but it holds up across ports in general, because publishers can use the consoles to cover major costs, the PC port becomes far more attractive as the porting costs give you a much, much lower sales requirement to get in to the black.

Here is a question, would it be hard for PC's to eventually have the ability to play a console game without installing but playing off the disk instead?

Yes, extremely. The i7 still can't fully emulate the EE used in the PS2, to emulate Cell you are looking at probably more then a decade out. A big part of it is 'endianess', but the consoles also tend to have CPUs that have considerably more FP power then comparable PC era CPUs(Cell still has more then double the FP power of the latest i7, after several years). That doesn't mean they are overall better CPUs by any stretch of the imagination, but it does mean that they are exceptionally difficult to emulate.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
Originally posted by: jonksWoW isn't going broke now is it. Maybe the pc industry will eventually move to subscription gaming for content, but until PCs disappear, PC gaming won't disappear. As long as there is profit to be made, it will remain.

I think Stardock has a good model. Little if any DRM--but require a registered CD key and its benign Impulse program in order to get patches and updates.
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,196
197
106
No, new ways to play on PC gaming are appearing, on-line purchases, pay-to-play methods, DLC content to increase income, etc. It's a question of adaptation. It will change the face of PC gaming, in fact it's already very much changed since the past couple of years, but it won't be "killed" nor will it "disappear", also think about companies like AMD and NVIDIA making hardware focused on gaming, they too would have to pay the price if PC gaming had to simply disappear eventually, won't happen sorry.
 

Rezist

Senior member
Jun 20, 2009
726
0
71
Not to mention if PC gaming dies there goes your PS4/Xbox 720 since PC's are doing most of the R&D. That being said PC games are hurting right now, were not getting the great graphical games we expect because they have to be portable to the console.

Also as mentioned the Wii has won this generation that means next gen may not see much improvement as console makers look to make money on hardware like Nintendo did. All they need to run is 1080P with no AA/AF to meet there goals at acceptable frame rates and they're pretty much topped out.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
there's too much freedom for independent creativity to kill PC games. Kill all the major big box publishers, we will still have a heck of a yearly games presentation.

Why? Because people wanna make games


Much much harder to go out and publish games under sony/nintendo/microsoft
 

videogames101

Diamond Member
Aug 24, 2005
6,783
27
91
How can console gaming possibly kill PC Gaming.

If anyone hasn't noticed this yet, consoles are getting more like PCs every single generation.

Cartridges->Discs->Internet->Map/Mod community

Consoles try more and more each generation to be like PCs- because thats what they are, just extremely gimped PCs.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
Originally posted by: Astrallite
PC hardware is generations ahead but asside from a few titles the consoles are going to have the best looking games simply due to exclusivity...and certainly will look consistently better due to larger budgets. I mean look at Crysis, the indoor areas look like a 2004 indie game; games like Killzone 2 or Bioshock run in circles around it.

A 360 chokes playing R6: Vegas2 split screen. Framerate probably in the single digits at the final level.

I guarantee that my computer wouldn't choke..and what console game looks better on a console than on the PC version?
 

Red Irish

Guest
Mar 6, 2009
1,605
0
0
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Astrallite
PC hardware is generations ahead but asside from a few titles the consoles are going to have the best looking games simply due to exclusivity...and certainly will look consistently better due to larger budgets. I mean look at Crysis, the indoor areas look like a 2004 indie game; games like Killzone 2 or Bioshock run in circles around it.

A 360 chokes playing R6: Vegas2 split screen. Framerate probably in the single digits at the final level.

I guarantee that my computer wouldn't choke..and what console game looks better on a console than on the PC version?

I don't think it's a pc hardware problem, but rather the developers, in their wisdom, have used every available means to herd us all towards consoles: most pc games these days are simply poorly ported console games.
 

Pelu

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2008
1,208
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
My wifes old computer collecting dust in the closet from 2007 has more processing and graphics power than the current consoles. That said, I dont believe that is what will kill PC gaming.

The higher costs, the piracy, the ease of use of consoles, and the closed dev environment will kill PC gaming.

But I think PC gaming will never truely die, it will evolve into an online community. MMORPGs will continue to thrive on PCs imo.

sweet mmo... thats my kind of thing...
 

imported_K3N

Golden Member
Dec 20, 2005
1,199
0
71

Before i got into the game gtr 2 for the pc i played forza 2 exclusively for the 360. after seeing how lackluster the sequel of the Forza2 was going to be compared to gran turismo 5 (im talking about the actual racing experience, not this paint job nonsense), i said screw it and decided to get gtr 2 (august 2009). This game has so much free user content and such that i've decided to sell my 360, and give M$ the finger.

Great thing about PC is that USUALLY the developer (not all of them) will hold out from putting out a true sequel to a good multiplayer game for about 4 years instead of every year or so and trying to make money off of DLC that should be free. DLCs aren't expansion pack too.

The game live for speed was made by 2 guys in their spare time. That alone is why PC gaming will never die.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
Originally posted by: Red Irish
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Astrallite
PC hardware is generations ahead but asside from a few titles the consoles are going to have the best looking games simply due to exclusivity...and certainly will look consistently better due to larger budgets. I mean look at Crysis, the indoor areas look like a 2004 indie game; games like Killzone 2 or Bioshock run in circles around it.

A 360 chokes playing R6: Vegas2 split screen. Framerate probably in the single digits at the final level.

I guarantee that my computer wouldn't choke..and what console game looks better on a console than on the PC version?

I don't think its a pc hardware problem, but rather the developers, in their wisdom, have used every available means to herd us all towards consoles: most pc games these days are simply poorly ported console games.

Yet the 'poorly ported' game runs fine on a PC and can't run smoothly on a console.
 

Mike Gayner

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2007
6,175
3
0
Originally posted by: K3N

Before i got into the game gtr 2 for the pc i played forza 2 exclusively for the 360. after seeing how lackluster the sequel of the Forza2 was going to be compared to gran turismo 5 (im talking about the actual racing experience, not this paint job nonsense), i said screw it and decided to get gtr 2 (august 2009). This game has so much free user content and such that i've decided to sell my 360, and give M$ the finger.

Great thing about PC is that USUALLY the developer (not all of them) will hold out from putting out a true sequel to a good multiplayer game for about 4 years instead of every year or so and trying to make money off of DLC that should be free. DLCs aren't expansion pack too.

The game live for speed was made by 2 guys in their spare time. That alone is why PC gaming will never die.

Why should DLC be free? I encourage the DLC model, and would like to see more micro transactions in PC gaming.
 

imported_K3N

Golden Member
Dec 20, 2005
1,199
0
71
Originally posted by: Mike Gayner
Originally posted by: K3N

Before i got into the game gtr 2 for the pc i played forza 2 exclusively for the 360. after seeing how lackluster the sequel of the Forza2 was going to be compared to gran turismo 5 (im talking about the actual racing experience, not this paint job nonsense), i said screw it and decided to get gtr 2 (august 2009). This game has so much free user content and such that i've decided to sell my 360, and give M$ the finger.

Great thing about PC is that USUALLY the developer (not all of them) will hold out from putting out a true sequel to a good multiplayer game for about 4 years instead of every year or so and trying to make money off of DLC that should be free. DLCs aren't expansion pack too.

The game live for speed was made by 2 guys in their spare time. That alone is why PC gaming will never die.

Why should DLC be free? I encourage the DLC model, and would like to see more micro transactions in PC gaming.

Play CoD4 on the PC instead for the xbox 360. Epic wanted to realease free map packs for Gears 2, and MS told em to suck it. M$ also won't allow user created content for unreal 3 yet sony is fine with it. M$ charges 50 bucks a year for live yet they use P2P for nearly all their games.
 

Mike Gayner

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2007
6,175
3
0
Originally posted by: K3N
Originally posted by: Mike Gayner
Originally posted by: K3N

Before i got into the game gtr 2 for the pc i played forza 2 exclusively for the 360. after seeing how lackluster the sequel of the Forza2 was going to be compared to gran turismo 5 (im talking about the actual racing experience, not this paint job nonsense), i said screw it and decided to get gtr 2 (august 2009). This game has so much free user content and such that i've decided to sell my 360, and give M$ the finger.

Great thing about PC is that USUALLY the developer (not all of them) will hold out from putting out a true sequel to a good multiplayer game for about 4 years instead of every year or so and trying to make money off of DLC that should be free. DLCs aren't expansion pack too.

The game live for speed was made by 2 guys in their spare time. That alone is why PC gaming will never die.

Why should DLC be free? I encourage the DLC model, and would like to see more micro transactions in PC gaming.

Play CoD4 on the PC instead for the xbox 360. Epic wanted to realease free map packs for Gears 2, and MS told em to suck it. M$ also won't allow user created content for unreal 3 yet sony is fine with it. M$ charges 50 bucks a year for live yet they use P2P for nearly all their games.

I agree totally that Xbox Live is a rort, and I've laughed out loud from the start for idiots who pay a subscription for the privilege of hosting their own games. It also pisses me off how user created content is stifled by Xbox Live.

But I don't mind DLC. I think, for example, the Fallout 3 DLC was very good value. I also like that you can make micro purchases in games like The Sims. I think that DLC is a great model, but that is a separate discussion from the point about Xbox Live.
 

ed21x

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2001
5,411
8
81
at the current rate, consoles are becoming PC's. given time, an xbox will just be another cross platform for games developed on the PC, and as long as your Windows Live account has a record of what you own, you'll be able to access it on the console if you prefer the living room, or PC.
 

Red Irish

Guest
Mar 6, 2009
1,605
0
0
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Red Irish
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Astrallite
PC hardware is generations ahead but asside from a few titles the consoles are going to have the best looking games simply due to exclusivity...and certainly will look consistently better due to larger budgets. I mean look at Crysis, the indoor areas look like a 2004 indie game; games like Killzone 2 or Bioshock run in circles around it.

A 360 chokes playing R6: Vegas2 split screen. Framerate probably in the single digits at the final level.

I guarantee that my computer wouldn't choke..and what console game looks better on a console than on the PC version?

I don't think its a pc hardware problem, but rather the developers, in their wisdom, have used every available means to herd us all towards consoles: most pc games these days are simply poorly ported console games.

Yet the 'poorly ported' game runs fine on a PC and can't run smoothly on a console.

GTA

I have yet to see a game that doesn't run smoothly on a console, although I suppose "running smoothly" is a term that is open to interpretation. Moreover, console users don't have to put up with a lot of the crap forced on us (install limits, DRM, etc) and can simply put the disk in and play. I am not arguing that the pc is not capable of more, merely that the companies have decided that it is not to their advantage to invest the time and energy into the pc that would be required to take full advantage of its potential as a gaming platform. There isn't really any room for debate here as nobody can deny that the big developers have shifted emphasis towards consoles. Am I happy about this? No, but I won't play ostrich either.
 

atran5e

Golden Member
Sep 13, 2008
1,292
0
71
Originally posted by: Red Irish
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Red Irish
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Astrallite
PC hardware is generations ahead but asside from a few titles the consoles are going to have the best looking games simply due to exclusivity...and certainly will look consistently better due to larger budgets. I mean look at Crysis, the indoor areas look like a 2004 indie game; games like Killzone 2 or Bioshock run in circles around it.

A 360 chokes playing R6: Vegas2 split screen. Framerate probably in the single digits at the final level.

I guarantee that my computer wouldn't choke..and what console game looks better on a console than on the PC version?

I don't think its a pc hardware problem, but rather the developers, in their wisdom, have used every available means to herd us all towards consoles: most pc games these days are simply poorly ported console games.

Yet the 'poorly ported' game runs fine on a PC and can't run smoothly on a console.

GTA

I have yet to see a game that doesn't run smoothly on a console, although I suppose "running smoothly" is a term that is open to interpretation. Moreover, console users don't have to put up with a lot of the crap forced on us (install limits, DRM, etc) and can simply put the disk in and play. I am not arguing that the pc is not capable of more, merely that the companies have decided that it is not to their advantage to invest the time and energy into the pc that would be required to take full advantage of its potential as a gaming platform. There isn't really any room for debate here as nobody can deny that the big developers have shifted emphasis towards consoles. Am I happy about this? No, but I won't play ostrich either.

Well it's not to their advantage because of piracy, the PC always was and always will be ahead of the console, performance wise.
Console=newbie friendly, easy access no hassle, plug n play, mostly arcade style kiddie games, cheap compared to PC parts, play with friends
PC=expensive, needs some computer knowledge, lots of troubleshooting at times, patches/fixes/crashes/OS issues/hardware issues, play only online with friends, too "sophisticated" for the average console player.

I don't think any of them will die, but the content playable on the console will be more like kiddie/arcade/devil may cry style, while on the PC you will have more mature/RTS/RPG/MMO style users.

Hopefully Wraparound Monitors or 3D Monitors, will bring the PC gaming experience up one level.
 

Mike Gayner

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2007
6,175
3
0
Originally posted by: Red Irish
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Red Irish
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Astrallite
PC hardware is generations ahead but asside from a few titles the consoles are going to have the best looking games simply due to exclusivity...and certainly will look consistently better due to larger budgets. I mean look at Crysis, the indoor areas look like a 2004 indie game; games like Killzone 2 or Bioshock run in circles around it.

A 360 chokes playing R6: Vegas2 split screen. Framerate probably in the single digits at the final level.

I guarantee that my computer wouldn't choke..and what console game looks better on a console than on the PC version?

I don't think its a pc hardware problem, but rather the developers, in their wisdom, have used every available means to herd us all towards consoles: most pc games these days are simply poorly ported console games.

Yet the 'poorly ported' game runs fine on a PC and can't run smoothly on a console.

GTA

I have yet to see a game that doesn't run smoothly on a console, although I suppose "running smoothly" is a term that is open to interpretation. Moreover, console users don't have to put up with a lot of the crap forced on us (install limits, DRM, etc) and can simply put the disk in and play. I am not arguing that the pc is not capable of more, merely that the companies have decided that it is not to their advantage to invest the time and energy into the pc that would be required to take full advantage of its potential as a gaming platform. There isn't really any room for debate here as nobody can deny that the big developers have shifted emphasis towards consoles. Am I happy about this? No, but I won't play ostrich either.

Erm, what? I'm not one of those retards that thinks a game has to be at 60+ fps all the time to be playable, but I've seen tons of games that run like shit on the console. Even Half Life 2 ran like crap on the Xbox. Probably half of the games on the Xbox 360 slow down significantly at some points in the game.
 

Red Irish

Guest
Mar 6, 2009
1,605
0
0
Originally posted by: adriantrances
Originally posted by: Red Irish
GTA

I have yet to see a game that doesn't run smoothly on a console, although I suppose "running smoothly" is a term that is open to interpretation. Moreover, console users don't have to put up with a lot of the crap forced on us (install limits, DRM, etc) and can simply put the disk in and play. I am not arguing that the pc is not capable of more, merely that the companies have decided that it is not to their advantage to invest the time and energy into the pc that would be required to take full advantage of its potential as a gaming platform. There isn't really any room for debate here as nobody can deny that the big developers have shifted emphasis towards consoles. Am I happy about this? No, but I won't play ostrich either.

Well it's not to their advantage because of piracy, the PC always was and always will be ahead of the console, performance wise.
Console=newbie friendly, easy access no hassle, plug n play, mostly arcade style kiddie games, cheap compared to PC parts, play with friends
PC=expensive, needs some computer knowledge, lots of troubleshooting at times, patches/fixes/crashes/OS issues/hardware issues, play only online with friends, too "sophisticated" for the average console player.

I don't think any of them will die, but the content playable on the console will be more like kiddie/arcade/devil may cry style, while on the PC you will have more mature/RTS/RPG/MMO style users.

Hopefully Wraparound Monitors or 3D Monitors, will bring the PC gaming experience up one level.

I think increased profit margins are to blame rather than piracy, after all, consoles can be chipped and I have never been convinced that piracy is on the increase, it has always accompanied computer games, ever since the days when people copied out the colour code of Jet Set Willy.

 

Red Irish

Guest
Mar 6, 2009
1,605
0
0
Originally posted by: Mike Gayner
Erm, what? I'm not one of those retards that thinks a game has to be at 60+ fps all the time to be playable, but I've seen tons of games that run like shit on the console. Even Half Life 2 ran like crap on the Xbox. Probably half of the games on the Xbox 360 slow down significantly at some points in the game.

I already admitted that this is subjective.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,501
12
0
PC Gaming has been mostly regulated to casual games and MMOs in recent years. Not a lot of A-list games being released fomr the platform anymore. Consoles are a more favourable platform to developers I think. Hardware is even across the board so you're not trying to tweak games for thousands of possible hardware configurations. Plus, there is MUCH tighter control over content.

For gamers, consoles are cheaper and more convenient. Put the disc in and go. A decent gaming PC is at least double the price of any console on the market right now. Usually you have to spend at least $600 to get something that can play current games at a smooth frame rate, compared to $299 for a PS3 or $199 for a 360. PC games haven't really improved dramatically in terms of graphics in recent years compared to their console brothers. It suddenly becomes a money pit with little to gain unless you like building and farting around with settings, patches, and DRM issues. Most people aren't like that.

I don't think PC gaming will ever die though. What you will see is the market contracting into a niche rather than being a dominant platform. Games being made available will be more of what we have now, such as the Sims and WoW.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
Originally posted by: Red Irish
Originally posted by: Mike Gayner
Erm, what? I'm not one of those retards that thinks a game has to be at 60+ fps all the time to be playable, but I've seen tons of games that run like shit on the console. Even Half Life 2 ran like crap on the Xbox. Probably half of the games on the Xbox 360 slow down significantly at some points in the game.

I already admitted that this is subjective.

Play the final level of Rainbow 6: Vegas 2 split screen and tell me if your framerate doesn't drop below 10fps.
 
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