PC repair clients that make you feel frustrated, and don't seem to ever be pleased.

[VirtualLarry]

So, I have this on-again-off-again client, that I always try to do the right thing by them. Maybe this time, I should have told them to get a new PC. But they came to me, thinking that I would do the work that they asked, cheaply, and they wouldn't, therefore, have to spend the money on a new laptop. They explicitly mentioned that they didn't want to spend the money on a new laptop.

So, it was an 8-year old, entry-level laptop, 1.3Ghz AMD small-core APU. Yeah, those.

They asked me to upgrade it from 7 to 10. Also asked, if there was anything that I could do to "speed it up". I told them that I could put in an SSD for $60 (the cost of the drive, wasn't going to charge them for putting it in the laptop). They declined.

Basically, it took 6.5 hours (no joke), for this little APU that could, to handle upgrading from Win7 to Win10, in-place, with a HDD. (HDD showed "Good" in CDI before the upgrade, no reallocated sectors.) Plus, I was charging them flat-rate, with an estimate of 2 hours for the job.

When I told them how long it actually took, they commented that my internet connection must be slow. (Well, no, I have 1Gbit FIOS. Doesn't help that the laptop only had Wireless N rather than more modern AC wireless.)

So, after getting it back, and using it, they commented that it was "really slow". Well... duh. They declined the SSD, and it was an entry-level 1.3Ghz small-core APU. It wasn't fast, when it was new 8 years ago.

It's like, they think that I have some magic "speedup" wand, that I wave over PCs, or something.

It's a bit frustrating to do work for someone, that tries to pay as little as possible, and they have unrealistic expectations, because they don't really have a huge grasp on the technology.

I mean, they said that they wanted me to do the work, because it was a "work" laptop, otherwise they would have done it themselves. Don't get me wrong, I REALLY appreciate any business that someone tosses my way, and I try to do as professional a job that I can.

I guess, I'm just a bit disappointed (in myself) that the client was less than thrilled with the overall result. (The laptop was fully functional, with Win10, there was nothing that I could see technically wrong with what I had done.) When they proposed me doing the work, I gave them a run-down of the prices, and my "standard OS upgrade package" includes a backup and an SSD replacement for the HDD (which has a side-effect of speeding up the upgrade by quite a bit). Unfortunately, they declined that option, to save money.

Traditionally, though, for an actual "work" laptop, someone would go with an Intel-based i5, at a minimum. Which would still likely perform more-or-less "well" even today.

Getting the cheapest entry-level laptop from 8 years ago? Kind of penny-wise, and pound-foolish, IMHO. (And I'm a king of budget systems.)

When they told me that they might be forced to buy a brand-new laptop, I advised checking Dell.com and Walmart for 10-Gen i5 laptops, since it is Cyber Monday. Told them they should be looking at the $400 and up USD price-point.

 

[lxskllr]

I guess, I'm just a bit disappointed (in myself) that the client was less than thrilled with the overall result.

Why? I'm assuming you told them what the result would be. If not, you should have. Full disclosure always. If they decide to proceed, it's 100% on them.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Why? I'm assuming you told them what the result would be. If not, you should have. Full disclosure always. If they decide to proceed, it's 100% on them.

I'm not sure I follow. There are objective CPU benchmarks on the internet ( www.cpubenchmark.net ). Win10 is supposed to be "faster" on older machines, due to an improved scheduler and memory-management, but that's tempered by a higher overhead in terms of background processes and threads. Plus, they had Norton installed.

I didn't make any representations, faster or slower, in terms of perceptive performance, other than to suggest an SSD.

 

[lxskllr]

I'd have recommended a new machine off the bat. I don't do this stuff for money(or really at all anymore), but the value I felt I provided was giving solid recommendations that met the user's needs. Swapping parts is easy. Knowledge and experience is harder to come by. I'm skeptical of any software upgrade increasing performance. Sometimes it happens, but not usually. I'd have questioned why they wanted an upgrade, what their expectations were, and likely would have suggested staying put til they got money for a new machine. Pushing a ssd is solid recommendation, and the best upgrade you can give any spinner computer. They declined. and they got what they got.

 

[TheVrolok]

People have unrealistic expectations and don't want to spend for their desired outcome. I am shocked.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm skeptical of any software upgrade increasing performance.

I never said that it would. One of their line-of-business programs had a pop-up, demanding that the OS be upgraded to Win10 by Dec. 31st 2019, or it would cease to function. (Remember, Win7 64-bit goes EOL in Jan. 2020.)

Edit: They didn't want to buy a newer laptop, or even add an SSD.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Pushing a ssd is solid recommendation, and the best upgrade you can give any spinner computer. They declined. and they got what they got.

Yeah, that's how I feel.

 

[lxskllr]

I never said that it would.

Yes you did...

Win10 is supposed to be "faster" on older machines, due to an improved scheduler and memory-management,

That's beside the point though. I'd have told them the already slow machine would likely end up slower, and the only available upgrade is a ssd to prolong the inevitable.

 

[highland145]

Blah, blah...eff them if you aren't clearing $100/hr. Block their calls. Let them get other quotes.....

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm telling YOU that's what I've heard. I did NOT tell them in any way that Win10 would speed things up. When they asked if I could speed up the laptop, I offered to install an SSD. They declined. I did NOT represent that installing Win10 would speed it up, to them.

My personal experience with slow machines of that type, was that Win10 (after stopping all of the background "apps" that load), was marginally faster than Win7 64-bit fully-updated, but that Win7 64-bit non-updated was faster than either.

My experience with faster desktop PCs (Ryzen CPUs), is Win10 all the way, due to improved scheduler.

 

[lxskllr]

I'm telling YOU that's what I've heard. I did NOT tell them in any way that Win10 would speed things up. When they asked if I could speed up the laptop, I offered to install an SSD. They declined. I did NOT represent that installing Win10 would speed it up, to them.

Correct. You said it. I didn't say anything about the client one way or the other, but you should have told them it would likely make the computer slower. A generic recommendation about a ssd doesn't get the point across. I don't know how much you consulted with them since you neglected to say, but since they're complaining, I'm assuming it wasn't enough. If it had left my hands, they would have been expecting a slower computer. If win10 somehow hit the 1% of software upgrades that actually speeds things up, they have nowhere to go but happier.

 

[highland145]

 

[VirtualLarry]

A generic recommendation about a ssd doesn't get the point across. I don't know how much you consulted with them since you neglected to say, but since they're complaining, I'm assuming it wasn't enough.

When I try to get into the "finer points", and get into detailed specifics as to the how and why, they cut me off, and won't let me "consult" with them. They just want it one-and-done, as quickly, hassle-free, and cheaply as possible.

They seem to feel that I'm wasting their time, when I try to get into the "why" they should get an SSD. When they initially called me, they told me they had this older laptop, with a "work" program, that had popped up, and apparently, claimed that they needed to upgrade to Win10.

I started to explain my "OS package deal", including before and after image backup, and SSD upgrade, and they basically cut me off, and asked when they could bring it over last weekend.

As far as they wanted, they just wanted it upgraded to Win10, with the "work" program still installed, and when I offered an SSD for $60, they immediately declined, they want this whole job done as cheaply as possible, and wouldn't let me get into the finer details of why an SSD was important for daily use and responsiveness.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I agree that is my primary problem, especially with this particular client, is "managing expectations". But the more I try to explain, the more they become dis-interested and try to cut me off and just want me to do the job that they asked. Rather than trying to get a "bigger perspective". At least, that's how I see it.

 

[lxskllr]

When I try to get into the "finer points", and get into detailed specifics as to the how and why, they cut me off, and won't let me "consult" with them. They just want it one-and-done, as quickly, hassle-free, and cheaply as possible.

They seem to feel that I'm wasting their time, when I try to get into the "why" they should get an SSD. When they initially called me, they told me they had this older laptop, with a "work" program, that had popped up, and apparently, claimed that they needed to upgrade to Win10.

I started to explain my "OS package deal", including before and after image backup, and SSD upgrade, and they basically cut me off, and asked when they could bring it over last weekend.

As far as they wanted, they just wanted it upgraded to Win10, with the "work" program still installed, and when I offered an SSD for $60, they immediately declined, they want this whole job done as cheaply as possible, and wouldn't let me get into the finer details of why an SSD was important for daily use and responsiveness.

Screw 'em then. If they didn't want to hear what I said during the consultation, they get what they get. Depending on how much I liked them and/or wanted future business from them, my response to the call would range from "I tried to tell you that" to "I don't care" click...

 

[VirtualLarry]

Depending on how much I liked them and/or wanted future business from them, my response to the call would range from "I tried to tell you that" to "I don't care" click...

Don't get me wrong, I don't harbor any dislike for this client, but I find it a little personally frustrating dealing with them, at times.

When they called me back, and complained that it was "really slow", I did re-iterate that "I did offer to install an SSD for $60".

I dunno. My "Professional Recommendation" included an SSD, if they said "No", then I guess, they get what they get.

Also, I do wonder if the HDD isn't just getting old and slower. But CDI reported everything was "Good". Maybe HDDs really are just that slow.

Edit: I also explained how Win10 forces Updates, and how their machine might prompt them in the middle of using it to reboot.
I have a nagging feeling that they never did Win7 updates, so they might be in for a surprise how long they take on that class of machine. Especially without the SSD.

Edit: I guess their sort of "blame the tech" attitude, rather than taking responsibility for their own purchase decisions, rubs me the wrong way. The Upgrade taking 6.5 hours, well actually, they blamed my internet connection. Which is Gigabit FIOS. I guess I could have hard-wired it, and let it download Win10 over ethernet (I have some dongles, but I think that laptop only had USB2.0). That might have shaved off 20 minutes from the initial download phase, but everything after that, was CPU and Disk bottle-necked. I did explain that to them as well.

 

[Paladin3]

I never said that it would. One of their line-of-business programs had a pop-up, demanding that the OS be upgraded to Win10 by Dec. 31st 2019, or it would cease to function. (Remember, Win7 64-bit goes EOL in Jan. 2020.)

Edit: They didn't want to buy a newer laptop, or even add an SSD.

Then walk away. You cannot alter reality for those kinds of clients.

 

[Maxima1]

Basically, it took 6.5 hours (no joke), for this little APU that could, to handle upgrading from Win7 to Win10, in-place, with a HDD. (HDD showed "Good" in CDI before the upgrade, no reallocated sectors.) Plus, I was charging them flat-rate, with an estimate of 2 hours for the job.

So how much did you charge them for installing the OS? That laptop is pratically worthless even for people who barely use laptops.... You're not really helping if you don't insist either on an SSD or a newer laptop. You can find even mid-range current models for just $250 even. It's INSANE putting up with crap like that.

Also, I do wonder if the HDD isn't just getting old and slower. But CDI reported everything was "Good". Maybe HDDs really are just that slow.

There are noticeable differences with hard drive models. An 8+ year old low-end mobile hard drive is definitely going to be crappy.....

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I'm not sure I follow. There are objective CPU benchmarks on the internet ( www.cpubenchmark.net ). Win10 is supposed to be "faster" on older machines, due to an improved scheduler and memory-management, but that's tempered by a higher overhead in terms of background processes and threads. Plus, they had Norton installed.

I didn't make any representations, faster or slower, in terms of perceptive performance, other than to suggest an SSD.

God damn it's painful just reading your post because I already have the image of a computer retard sketched in my head.

Just having an antivirus is... So.. 2005...

These folks that think they can use the same thing over the years and it doesn't depreciate as the rest of technology (apps) increase really need to be put out to pasture

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

And let me guess - they always have a shinny new iPhone all the fucking time?

 

[VirtualLarry]

So how much did you charge them for installing the OS? That laptop is pratically worthless even for people who barely use laptops.... You're not really helping if you don't insist either on an SSD or a newer laptop. You can find even mid-range current models for just $250 even. It's INSANE putting up with crap like that.

$50 for the OS upgrade labor (took 6.5 hours), and $50 for backing up, both before and after (took like 48min and 52min).

I pushed the "SSD option" several times, and was rebuffed (extra expense), and they explicitly told me that they want the work done (implied, "cheaply"), so that they didn't have to go out and buy a new laptop. (Which, IIRC, they said that they could get for "a few hundred".) So, I didn't try to sell them one. (*)

(*) After they complained that it was slow, after using it after the upgrade, I did offer to sell them one of my personal laptops, with a 2.4Ghz (turbo) quad-core Puma APU (A6-6310), with a 512GB SATA 2.5" SSD, and 2x4GB DDR3, for $200, and free labor restoring their backup image to the laptop, and a week free trial period to see if they liked it better.

 

[Paladin3]

I'm telling YOU that's what I've heard. I did NOT tell them in any way that Win10 would speed things up. When they asked if I could speed up the laptop, I offered to install an SSD. They declined. I did NOT represent that installing Win10 would speed it up, to them.

My personal experience with slow machines of that type, was that Win10 (after stopping all of the background "apps" that load), was marginally faster than Win7 64-bit fully-updated, but that Win7 64-bit non-updated was faster than either.

My experience with faster desktop PCs (Ryzen CPUs), is Win10 all the way, due to improved scheduler.

You failed when you accepted the job for which the client had unrealistic expectations. You should have issued a written quote with a recommendation for a new machine that would meet their needs. And then walked away explaining you cannot in good conscience accept the wasted money for a pointless job.

Clients tend to think they know better. They ignore recommendations, waste their money on band aide fixes, end up disappointed and then inevitably blame you. Even if you are trying to help someone on a budget, it's better to properly educate and be realistic with them. That's at least half of a tech's actual job.

 

[Paladin3]

$50 for the OS upgrade labor (took 6.5 hours), and $50 for backing up, both before and after (took like 48min and 52min).

I pushed the "SSD option" several times, and was rebuffed (extra expense), and they explicitly told me that they want the work done (implied, "cheaply"), so that they didn't have to go out and buy a new laptop. (Which, IIRC, they said that they could get for "a few hundred".) So, I didn't try to sell them one. (*)

(*) After they complained that it was slow, after using it after the upgrade, I did offer to sell them one of my personal laptops, with a 2.4Ghz (turbo) quad-core Puma APU (A6-6310), with a 512GB SATA 2.5" SSD, and 2x4GB DDR3, for $200, and free labor restoring their backup image to the laptop, and a week free trial period to see if they liked it better.

I would have been brutally frank with them after they complained. Brutally. But, I feel you pain. You want to help the client, but they won't listen to reason. The best you can do for those kinds of clients is be honest and decline the job.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You failed when you accepted the job for which the client had unrealistic expectations. You should have issued a written quote with a recommendation for a new machine that would meet their needs. And then walked away explaining you cannot in good conscience accept the wasted money for a pointless job.

Clients tend to think they know better. They ignore recommendations, waste their money on band aide fixes, end up disappointed and then inevitably blame you. Even if you are trying to help someone on a budget, it's better to properly educate and be realistic with them. That's at least half of a tech's actual job.

Even if it directly contravenes what they're telling me? Client: "I DON'T want to have to buy a new laptop.". Me: "Sorry, you WILL buy a new laptop. It's for the best." ("These are NOT the droids that you are looking for...")

 

[VirtualLarry]

Obviously, I believe that I failed, in effectively communicating what the result would be, and properly managing customer expectations.

And they failed in effectively communicating with me, with only telling me that it was an "older laptop" that they wanted upgrading, and when I asked if it had Windows 7 already on it, they said "Yes". So that's when I launched into my "OS upgrade package schpiel", told them about backing it up (they initially didn't want to pay labor for backup, but I told them I was unwilling to do the labor to upgrade a "work" laptop, without doing an image backup first, and if they wanted Professional service, then they had to pay me for it. They finally relented, and agreed on $100.) I told them it would be the ideal time to swap in an SSD, and they said "Oh, don't want it." (paraphrasing there)

I should have probably gotten a model number out of them somehow, before giving them my recommendation. I thought that any laptop that came with Windows 7, would be robust enough to run Win10, since they are so similar in some ways, as far as hardware demands. I had no idea, that I was going to be dealing with a bottom-of-the-barrel budget laptop, that was slow even when it was new, 8 years ago.