PC Sound suggestions?

[Narcotic_hobo]

So I've just sold off my Logitech Z-680's as they were simply too bulky for my new apartment and want to get something new to declutter my desk.

I was thinking of getting a headset (for gaming, one with good positional audio), 2.0 speakers, and a sound card to ensure it all works to the best of its ability. I have about $350 that I can do on this total, and have some items picked out but wanted to know if the boards had any better suggestions or any reason I should shy away from the products I was thinking of:


Speakers:
Creative Gigaworks T40 Series II speakers - $100 shipped

Sound Card:
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium (not HD version) $50 refurbished

Headset:
Astro A50s wireless headset - $200 refurbished


Keep in mind the astro A50s need a Dolby Digital Live audio card with optical out to power them correctly, otherwise i've heard good things about xonar cards. I have a pcie 1x slot and a pci slot available, but would prefer pcie incase next build doesnt have pci.

 

[dma0991]

Does your motherboard have an optical out? Most motherboards do these days and it doesn't make much of a difference since the sound processing would be done on the Astro Mixamp unit. You could use an analog 3.5mm cable from the regular audio I/O output or a cheaper sound card with an optical output(if your motherboard doesn't have one), wouldn't be that different.

 

[Narcotic_hobo]

Does your motherboard have an optical out? Most motherboards do these days and it doesn't make much of a difference since the sound processing would be done on the Astro Mixamp unit. You could use an analog 3.5mm cable from the regular audio I/O output or a cheaper sound card with an optical output(if your motherboard doesn't have one), wouldn't be that different.

I do, but it doesnt support DDL. Apparently the astros need DDL in order to produce quality 7.1 positional audio.

 

[dma0991]

I do, but it doesnt support DDL. Apparently the astros need DDL in order to produce quality 7.1 positional audio.

The sound you're getting from the PC or the Creative sound card via optical will be digital signals in stereo. You could only gain direct DDL if you have analog connection from the sound card to the headphones.

DDL processing is done on the Astro Mixamp itself because there's compatibility with XBOX and PS3 as well. If the prerequisite is a good sound card with optical for DDL, that means there wouldn't be DDL surround for XBOX and PS3. The right button has the Dolby symbol and should be a toggle for DDL controlled by the Mixamp, not governed by an external sound card.

 

[Narcotic_hobo]

The sound you're getting from the PC or the Creative sound card via optical will be digital signals in stereo. You could only gain direct DDL if you have analog connection from the sound card to the headphones.

DDL processing is done on the Astro Mixamp itself because there's compatibility with XBOX and PS3 as well. If the prerequisite is a good sound card with optical for DDL, that means there wouldn't be DDL surround for XBOX and PS3. The right button has the Dolby symbol and should be a toggle for DDL controlled by the Mixamp, not governed by an external sound card.

I don't think that is correct, my understanding is as follows:

1) Video game outputs raw 5.1 sound.

2) DDL encodes that raw 5.1 sound into a dolby digital signal to be sent across optical.

3) Mixamp decodes the dolby digital signal into 5.1/7.1 sound.


Without a DDL soundcard only stereo would be sent to the mixamp. Xbox and ps3 seem to already output dolby digital 5.1 over optical.

 

[dma0991]

A real-time encoding technology, Dolby Digital Live converts any audio signal into a Dolby Digital bitstream for transport and playback through a home theater system. With it, your PC or game console can be hooked up to your Dolby Digital-equipped audio/video receiver or digital speaker system via a single digital connection, eliminating the confusion of multiple cables and ensuring the integrity of the audio signal.

DDL

Games do not store their sounds as 5.1/7.1 channel audio. Its usually conversion of stereo audio to positional sound, which in the case of the Astro A50s, is done by the Astro Mixamp.

 

[Narcotic_hobo]

DDL

Games do not store their sounds as 5.1/7.1 channel audio. Its usually conversion of stereo audio to positional sound, which in the case of the Astro A50s, is done by the Astro Mixamp.

Games do produce 5.1 and sometimes 7.1 channel audio, however it is produced in analog. I know this for a fact as I could connect my 5.1 z680s via analog and get positional audio through direct input without any conversion.

Uncompressed 5.1 audio is simply too large to be sent over an optical connection and therefore has to be compressed into a dolby digital signal which can be decoded when received. DDL takes 5.1 analog sound and compresses it into a dolby digital signal in realtime which can be sent over an optical connection to the mixamp which has the capability to decode the dolby digital signal back into 5.1, then it upconverts that 5.1 signal into 7.1.

Without a DDL sound card only 2.0 audio would be sent over the optical line to the astros which results in stereo output. The astro a50 headset has a dolby digital decoder, which means it still requires a dolby digital signal to decode. Without a DDL sound card the mixamp will not have any dolby digital signal to decode.

I'm very sure on this point, and have seen many users of the astro a50s posting on their experiences with the astros and all of which conclude that a DDL sound card is neccessary.

 

[dma0991]

Games do produce 5.1 and sometimes 7.1 channel audio, however it is produced in analog. I know this for a fact as I could connect my 5.1 z680s via analog and get positional audio through direct input without any conversion.
Sounds is always stereo as humans only have a pair of ears, not 5, not 7. The only reason why you're getting positional audio is when the sound is split into its respective channels by the control console. The same method is being implemented here.

Uncompressed 5.1 audio is simply too large to be sent over an optical connection and therefore has to be compressed into a dolby digital signal which can be decoded when received. DDL takes 5.1 analog sound and compresses it into a dolby digital signal in realtime which can be sent over an optical connection to the mixamp which has the capability to decode the dolby digital signal back into 5.1, then it upconverts that 5.1 signal into 7.1.
So you're telling me that they would go through all the trouble of having the game splitting the sound to 5 channels, then combining them into DDL, splitting them again and then combining them again in the headset(there's only two drivers)? That's what I call bad design and causing unnecessary added latency in the audio and degradation of the quality from too many conversions.

Even positional headsets like Steelseries 5hv2 relies on analog stereo sound from its USB sound card.

Without a DDL sound card only 2.0 audio would be sent over the optical line to the astros which results in stereo output. The astro a50 headset has a dolby digital decoder, which means it still requires a dolby digital signal to decode. Without a DDL sound card the mixamp will not have any dolby digital signal to decode.
Refer to the statement given by Dolby, "any audio signal into a Dolby Digital bitstream". There's no reason why the Astro Mixamp could not receive stereo sound and convert it.

I'm very sure on this point, and have seen many users of the astro a50s posting on their experiences with the astros and all of which conclude that a DDL sound card is neccessary.

The difference from getting an optical output from the motherboard or a dedicated sound card would be nil. Its your money to lose, not mine.

 

[mindbomb]

xonars with dolby digital live also have dolby headphone.
so rather than having the mixamp do the headphone virtualization, you can have the sound card do it, and use any pair of headphones.

in other words, rather than
5.1 game output> xonar's dolby digital encoder>astro mixamp's dolby decoder>astro's dolby headphone downmix
you can do
5.1 game output>xonar's dolby headphone downmix

 

[Narcotic_hobo]

xonars with dolby digital live also have dolby headphone.
so rather than having the mixamp do the headphone virtualization, you can have the sound card do it, and use any pair of headphones.

in other words, rather than
5.1 game output> xonar's dolby digital encoder>astro mixamp's dolby decoder>astro's dolby headphone downmix
you can do
5.1 game output>xonar's dolby headphone downmix

I'd be fine with that but I was really hoping for a wireless solution, do you know of any headphones that could be set up that way that are wireless outside of the a50s?


@dma: The manual for the a50s even states that the mixamp needs dolby digital 5.1 input over optical. Thats the way those work. Countless people who have purchased these have found they do NOT upconvert the optical signal or usb signal to 7.1 UNLESS the signal received is a dolby digital encoded 5.1 surround.

So thats how it works for those headphones, period. In addition I don't think you understand how audio works. Sure we only have stereo hearing, but sounds are produced in far more than stereo. You can't record a movie in stereo and then "magically" convert it to surround once it hits the theaters. Same way that mono couldn't be magically converted to stereo when it was introduced. A game produces environmental sound which it sends to a card uncompressed. A DDL card is able to take this raw information and encode it into 5.1 sound to be sent across a spdif signal, which can then be decoded on the other end back into 5.1 sound.

I understand that 7.1 headphone virtualization exists, but it is far less accurate as far as positional audio goes if it comes from a 2.0 stereo signal vs a 5.1 signal. That seems pretty clear from intuition alone.

Edit: Both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 are capable of outputting dolby digital 5.1 over optical, and the manual for the a50s instructs these settings be turned on for proper sound. Here is a link to the manual if you still do not believe me: https://s3.amazonaws.com/astro-media/manuals/A50_Wireless_Manual.pdf

 

[dma0991]

The manual for the a50s even states that the mixamp needs dolby digital 5.1 input over optical.

PS3
Digital  Dolby Digital 5.1 Ch - Ensure that the DTS 5.1 Ch has NOT been selected

PC
You may need to acquire a USB to optical digital out converter

There's no part where it says it should be compulsory to have a sound card to do this. The main body of the instruction tells that any optical out onboard or sound card is usable.

Again, if you're dying to buy it, its your money, not mine.

In addition I don't think you understand how audio works. Sure we only have stereo hearing, but sounds are produced in far more than stereo. You can't record a movie in stereo and then "magically" convert it to surround once it hits the theaters.

The in game sound you hear is always stereo. Its just has different intensity based on your 360 degree position in 3D space. Here's an example of why positional audio isn't important when you only have two ears. Be reminded that Youtube does not support beyond stereo sound.

If an audio recording if done properly with a stereo microphone, all you need is a proper stereo headphone with good soundstage.

I understand that 7.1 headphone virtualization exists, but it is far less accurate as far as positional audio goes if it comes from a 2.0 stereo signal vs a 5.1 signal. That seems pretty clear from intuition alone.

A good stereo headphones with a good sound card would do better than any positional headphones. Its one of the many reasons why Roccat Kave and Psyko 5.1 fell out of favor because having more smaller(worse) drivers won't be better than having two good large drivers.

 

[videogames101]

jesus christ the misinformation

listen up, a quality stereo headset will serve you better than any bullshit upmix/5.1/7.1/dolby/downmix/conversion.epicsurroundtech pair of headphones

go do some research on real headphones, and as for your source, USB DACs are often your best bet, or any sound card with actual headphone opamps

if you want to tell me you win halo 2 live matches because your EPIX ASTRO GAMING MIXER HEADSET gives you the edge, then i'm sorry you can't be helped

 

[bononos]

http://forums.evga.com/tm.aspx?m=1927191&mpage=1&print=true

The OP in this thread asked a similar question about the x-fi titanium and astro gaming headphones.

Never having used a gaming type headphone with multiple speakers before, I'm kindof confused on the move to multiple speakers on headphones vs htrf sound.

 

[Tattoedsailor]

jesus christ the misinformation

listen up, a quality stereo headset will serve you better than any bullshit upmix/5.1/7.1/dolby/downmix/conversion.epicsurroundtech pair of headphones

go do some research on real headphones, and as for your source, USB DACs are often your best bet, or any sound card with actual headphone opamps

if you want to tell me you win halo 2 live matches because your EPIX ASTRO GAMING MIXER HEADSET gives you the edge, then i'm sorry you can't be helped

Whats good USB dac? Any recommendations? I got SB Z and having software problems with it. A couple months ago I recommended this card. Now I stand corrected.. The software does suck. Should have listened to guys on this forum. Now I'm back to on board sound

 

[bononos]

Whats wrong exactly with the SBZ software? Are you doing something out of the ordinary? Does it relate to gaming or audio type work?

 

[Tattoedsailor]

Whats wrong exactly with the SBZ software? Are you doing something out of the ordinary? Does it relate to gaming or audio type work?

I cant get control panel to come up half of time.. I gotta reboot. Its really annoying!

 

[richaron]

Whats good USB dac? Any recommendations?

How $long is a piece or string? The forums at Head-Fi might be a good place to start searching. The term "usb dac" itself can be pretty general; for example my "sound card" is an onyx blackjack, which is usb & DACs stuff.

As to OP: Gigaworks line is awesome, though it seems Edifer Exclaim e10 might be my new ~$100 speaker favourite. And multichannel headphones are a joke.

 

[bononos]

I cant get control panel to come up half of time.. I gotta reboot. Its really annoying!

Do a google for "soundblaster z control panel problem". Its been reported before and some fixes that supposedly works include uninstalling everything and changing the pcie slot or uninstalling the hdmi audio driver.