[PCGH.de] Fallout 4 Benchmark

[RussianSensation]

But it's easier to blame NVIDIA and GW for AMD's problems rather than own up to AMD's own failures.

Of course it's AMD's fault -- who would have known that AMD cards would struggle on day 1 of release when faced with NV-specific, optimized and NV-sponsored technologies that were specifically favoured and implemented by Bethesda in this GW title?

Bethesda.net:

"To create that volumetric light spilling across the scene (sometimes called “god rays&#8221 we worked with our friends at NVIDIA, who’ve we worked with dating back to Morrowind’s cutting-edge water. The technique used here runs on the GPU and leverages hardware tessellation."

It shouldn't be a surprise that NV was more than happy to litter the world of FO4 with useless levels of extreme god ray tessellation that while lowered the performance on NV cards by 30-40% (God Rays Low vs. Ultra), it ensured that AMD cards got crippled to well below 60 fps. Brilliant marketing strategy.

But hey, it's AMD's fault that the game has features that lower performance by 30-40% that require a magnifying glass in still screenshots to see the difference.

Full credit to NV for having superior hardware tessellation, but recalling back to what we were promised with dynamic environmental tessellation, the way tessellation has been used since Fermi days is not at all what we were promised 5 years ago. Since Bethesda clearly had no interest or in-house capability of creating next gen lighting engine/light shafts, they just took off off-the-shelf NV provided tech like God Rays and inserted it into their game engine. It's AMD's fault that they didn't have the financial resources, 300 computer programmers and co-marketing budget to provide Bethesda with DX12 engine, DirectCompute and loads of Asynchronous Compute code. I guess we know where you stand in terms of how you think PC games should be developed but some of us want PC games to be developed independently and objectively, like the good old days.

Clearly it's not AMD's fault, right? Right? Clearly they are always on top of new game releases, especially ones that aren't in their GE program. Cry babies will be cry babies and play the victim no matter what.

/extreme sarcasm

You sure are quick to jump to conclusions, and it seems you haven't been following the development of this game.

Imagine if McLaren had gained exclusive access/rights to the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 3 tires before anyone else and had months to develop/adjust the suspension of their next gen supercar to set records on the world's top racetracks, including the Nurburging. Let's assume the top laptimes at the Nurburging were a key determining factor for customers pre-ordering/purchasing the new McLaren car vs. Ferrari, Porsche, and Lamborghini supercars. Then finally in some near future, Michelin publicly announces Pilot Sport Cup 3 tires for availability to Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini . However, even after these manufacturers were to swap Cup 2 with Cup 3 tires, it would still take them months to make new suspension adjustments to their supercars to take full advantage of the new tires. I guess you would blame Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini for not having the engineering resources, co-marketing budget and corporate connections to bribe/pay their way to win? That's exactly what GW's is and you continue supporting it. Amazing.

To most people in the world, these are called unethical business practices and such actions are often prohibited in most industries, except it seems no one cares in PC game development as there is no governing body that regulates the non-arm's length relationships between game development and stimulating hardware sales.

--------------

Some people are still denying that this game is a GW title? What a ridiculous claim.

Bethesda Picks NVIDIA Technology for ‘Fallout 4’
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2015/11/04/fallout-4/

From NV blog:

"I get to explain to my son, Carson, that technology created by NVIDIA will make the latest installment of his favorite franchise, Fallout, even cooler. Bethesda has taken NVIDIA Volumetric Lighting technology to recreate the franchise’s signature look in the latest Fallout installment. NVIDIA and Bethesda are working together to integrate state-of-the-art special effects using NVIDIA technologies.

Categories: GameWorks, Gaming
Tags: GameWorks, Gaming

See more at: http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2015/11/04/fallout-4/#sthash.a2GxHBZO.dpuf- See more at: http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2015/11/04/fallout-4/#sthash.a2GxHBZO.dpuf- See more at: http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2015/11/04/fallout-4/#sthash.a2GxHBZO.dpuf

Last time I checked, the NVIDIA technology = GameWorks.

How many references of NV technology are needed to prove a point? How in the world is it AMD's fault that their cards cannot run NV-created tech at the same speed when the said NV-tech takes full advantage of NV's architectures? What you are saying makes no sense to blame AMD for the fact that their GPUs aren't Kepler or Maxwell architecture. :\ This is simply a matter of NV having $$$ to throw at developers to incorporate NV-specific game code to be inserted into the game. AMD couldn't afford to outbid NV and NV could afford to do it. It's as simple as that. It's Pay to Win.

Imagine if it was not AMD but NV vs. Intel and Intel literally 'optimized' (i.e., bribed with co-marketing, programmers and PR) almost all AAA games for its GPU architectures? Would you like that? The only reason you don't mind this style of PC optimizations is because NV is the one 'winning' the bribing game and you only buy NV products so of course it's never a problem.

No big surprise, though; ol' Howard made it known that they were "good friends" with NVidia, but nary a touch on AMD.

:thumbsup: Someone has actually researched on this game. Bravo.

This game doesn't even look great.
Pc gamers are so stuck on nvidia vs amd that we're completely ignoring the low performance from every gpu, as well as the ridiculous framerate hits for features offering little to no iq benefits.....

You have to keep in mind that some gamers here are also NV shareholders. The worse a game performs on AMD/older NV cards, the more likely a gamer has to go out and buy a newer NV card. It's also interesting how some people in this very thread use Anno 2205 to crap on NV while ignoring that Anno 2205 wipes the floor with a 980Ti at 1080P. All of this would be awesome sauce if Anno 2205 or FO4 looked like next gen PC games aka Far Cry 1 or Crysis 1 of their day but that's not the case here at all.

2015 is the year of console-to-PC multi-platform unoptimized turds. Compared to SW:BF, FO4 looks much worse but runs MUCH worse.

Also, to this day some people don't understand that if AMD was 10X the size and also pulled similar stunts, we'd literally have to have an NV card for some games and an AMD card for other games in the same rig. It's amazing the cheer-leading for GWs that has been happening and how even 'professional' sites like HardOCP defend this crap.

 

[SimianR]

Isn't it getting old blaming GameWorks every time AMD does poorly in a game? Seems to be the case more and more everyday. What was it yesterday? Oh yeah Anno 2205...surely it can't be that AMD drivers are just lagging in optimization or the game needs more patches, nope no way, it MUST be that evil GW! Reviews such as the one from Ars Technica note that the game also drops below 30 fps and chugs on a PS4, is Game Works to blame for that too?



And AMD retweeted this, I guess this guy's gonna be disappointed :

The R9 390 still runs Fallout 4 just fine - especially if you don't feel the need to crank Godrays to Ultra (for little IQ gain). Why is he going to be disappointed? I find it odd that he would feel disappointed because another vendors card runs it better in specific scenarios even though his card runs it just fine. This forum gets pretty tired when I can already imagine what each user is going to say without reading the post - everyone divided into each camp cheering for their GPU vendors.

 

[Phynaz]

As a Kepler owner, this make me very happy, but I don't think AMD owners should worry too much, as drivers should help fix the performance.

Yep, now I need to decide whether to take the gtx 960 off my Santa list.

 

[MTDEW]

Fallout 4 PC 1080p60 Ultra: GTX 970 vs R9 390 Frame-Rate Test

Clearly it's not AMD's fault, right? Right? Clearly they are always on top of new game releases, especially ones that aren't in their GE program. Cry babies will be cry babies and play the victim no matter what.

/extreme sarcasm

Maybe you didn't watch the full video I linked and what was said about AMDs day1 performance in this game or maybe you just jumped to a conclusion based on the hardware in my sig. (thats ok , it happens all the time on this forum, no big deal )

The point is that I agree with you. :thumbsup:

 

[RussianSensation]

Well, I suppose it's not all Gameworks' fault. Bethesda helped too

For sure. Bethesda is mostly to blame no doubt. This game looks absolutely horrible for a 2015 title. The NV-specific features are like adding lipstick on a pig. Those textures, low polygon 2D fences, lacking in detail houses/buildings, weak interior lighting model, low polygon stiff characters, outdated facial animations, etc.

If Crytek or DICE made a game with this level of graphics in 2015, it would be running at 100 fps on a single HD7970Ghz at 1080P. In some areas the game looks worse than Crysis 1, a 2007 game. That's not even an exaggeration. If this were actually a great looking game made by Bethesda, it might have required GPU hardware from 2020 to run well given how the company is completely incapable of making a well-optimized game/port. They should have spent another 12-18 months redoing the entire engine and focusing on the game itself, instead of adding GW features to what is an outdated and unoptimized game engine.

"My hype to see how Bethesda would interpret all these innovations and incorporate them into the Fallout setting turned to disappointment when I stumbled through a game that features the same poorly-implemented combat and all the same old Gamebryo engine annoyances and glitches we've been dealing with for years."

"The problem comes from the fact that this feels like more of the same, not a step forward. Fallout 4 doesn't break the same new ground Fallout 3 did with its jump to 3D, and its storytelling and intricacy of choice falls short of what New Vegas offered...Fallout 4 just feels safe, even when trying new things."

"Fallout 4 is a welcome return to the wasteland. An interesting and well-told central story is hobbled by the open world, but this is Fallout and that open world is a joy to explore. PC players will justifiably grumble that the game is obviously designed first and foremost for a couch and controller experience."

 

[poofyhairguy]

I have grown to love these new game release threads.

Overall I think gamers should be happy. Modest settings work well on a lot of hardware, and there is a clear advantage to the PC version. Like more than a lot of other ports advantage.

 

[lyssword]

where are the cpu benches? can't find any so far, it must b harder to replace cpu heatsinks than sticking in a vid card

 

[tg2708]

over 100k people are playing it on steam right now, holy cow!!!

 

[tential]

I have grown to love these new game release threads.

Overall I think gamers should be happy. Modest settings work well on a lot of hardware, and there is a clear advantage to the PC version. Like more than a lot of other ports advantage.

Why should I be happy? I'm just finishing up The Witcher 2, and some of these games take faster hardware to run the game, but look worse.....

 

[DarkKnightDude]

I strongly disagree with sentiments that the game is ugly. Its no Crysis, but I love the art style and vibrancy of it. Very nice simple look. The lightning is what lifts this game, despite some terrible animations.

 

[tential]

I strongly disagree with sentiments that the game is ugly. Its no Crysis, but I love the art style and vibrancy of it. Very nice simple look. The lightning is what lifts this game, despite some terrible animations.

Simple Graphics + Lighting = Wrecks your system
Crysis 3 = Wrecks your system....

I'm going to make a game of pong, throw in Gameworks, have it run 30 FPS on a Fury X, but 60 FPS on a 980Ti, and hear people say how AMD just couldn't get drivers ready for my game of pong...
Not that my game of pong shouldn't take a 980Ti to hit 60 FPS.....

 

[5150Joker]

Of course it's AMD's fault

Good I'm glad we finally agree on something.

You have to keep in mind that some gamers here are also NV shareholders.

Unless you have proof that some "gamers here are NV shareholders", you should keep your opinions and speculations of a conspiracy to yourself. And even if some here were shareholders, why would that matter in the least? I'm sure some here are AMD, Intel and Qualcomm shareholders as well. What a silly thing to say.

And yes it is AMD's fault because their performance still falls very short of NVIDIA even with the lighting effects turned off. So rather than blame NVIDIA, Bethesda and Jesus for AMD's failure, maybe you and other AMD fans should take a cold sober look at AMD themselves and realize they are simply failing in this market.

They don't devote the necessary resources for developer outreach and it shows every time a game like this is produced. It happened with Project Cars, Anno 2205 and now a AAA title like this one. I'm sure there will be a lot more AAA games in the future that exhibit the same problems with AMD hardware on day one that require multiple patches (and behind the scenes outreach from AMD) + driver patches before performance is brought to expected levels.

Make all the long winded excuses you want with a million hypothetical scenarios but the reality is crystal clear, it's an AMD problem. If they don't have resources to compete, that's their fault, not NVIDIAs.

Edit: Look what happens to AMD at 1080p, I suppose now Rockstar is also in NVIDIA's pocket? It's more of the same, AMD just not cutting it:

 

[poofyhairguy]

Why should I be happy? I'm just finishing up The Witcher 2, and some of these games take faster hardware to run the game, but look worse.....

It is what it is, PC's are console plus now. Sometimes at worst you get a broken game that looks like the PS4 version when you have five times the power. Other times you get twice the framerate or more, better textures and much better visuals. This game is more of the latter. Or it will be after patches/drivers I bet.

 

[tential]

It is what it is, PC's are console plus now. Sometimes at worst you get a broken game that looks like the PS4 version when you have five times the power. Other times you get twice the framerate or more, better textures and much better visuals. This game is more of the latter. Or it will be after patches/drivers I bet.

So then you're agreeing with me. It sucks that the game doesn't that great. But you're happy anyway(like most people) since you like the Fallout 4 series.

I'll wait for the patches/driver updates and HD texture packs/mods to clean the game up first personally though. Will probably watch my roommate play through it though on my system.

 

[Insomniator]

The main problem is the quality of the graphics, regardless of the hardware required. Whats the point of 980TI SLI if all it does it let you turn the resolution to 4k on what is otherwise a console game?

 

[iiiankiii]

Good I'm glad we finally agree on something.



Unless you have proof that some "gamers here are NV shareholders", you should keep your opinions and speculations of a conspiracy to yourself. And even if some here were shareholders, why would that matter in the least? I'm sure some here are AMD, Intel and Qualcomm shareholders as well. What a silly thing to say.

And yes it is AMD's fault because their performance still falls very short of NVIDIA even with the lighting effects turned off. So rather than blame NVIDIA, Bethesda and Jesus for AMD's failure, maybe you and other AMD fans should take a cold sober look at AMD themselves and realize they are simply failing in this market.

They don't devote the necessary resources for developer outreach and it shows every time a game like this is produced. It happened with Project Cars, Anno 2205 and now a AAA title like this one. I'm sure there will be a lot more AAA games in the future that exhibit the same problems with AMD hardware on day one that require multiple patches (and behind the scenes outreach from AMD) + driver patches before performance is brought to expected levels.

Make all the long winded excuses you want with a million hypothetical scenarios but the reality is crystal clear, it's an AMD problem. If they don't have resources to compete, that's their fault, not NVIDIAs.

Agreed, AMD needs to do what they can to get the games people want to play to run well. But, GameWorks is still horse manure.

 

[5150Joker]

The main problem is the quality of the graphics, regardless of the hardware required. Whats the point of 980TI SLI if all it does it let you turn the resolution to 4k on what is otherwise a console game?

I agree, the game doesn't push the boundaries with graphics but could you imagine the outcry if it did? People with high end cards would be getting sub 60 fps on ultra @ 1440p and blaming Bethesda/GW/NVIDIA/Jesus/Ronald McDonald etc. for it or forming conspiracy theories about NV stockholders..oh wait they already are.

 

[tential]

I agree, the game doesn't push the boundaries with graphics but could you imagine the outcry if it did? People with high end cards would be getting low fps and blaming Bethesda/GW/NVIDIA/Jesus for it or forming conspiracy theories about NV stockholders..oh wait they already are.

So you think a 980Ti should be getting these framerates in a title of this fidelity?

 

[5150Joker]

So you think a 980Ti should be getting these framerates in a title of this fidelity?

I don't see anything wrong w/the above performance for 980 Ti, unless 100+ is now considered a bad thing?

And it certainly does fine at 1440p as per the OP:

So yes I think it does reasonably well and will continue to get better as Bethesda releases patches and NVIDIA continues to optimize it's drivers. I just hope Lisa Su hasn't fired the engineers needed to get AMD up to snuff so AMD users can get the same performance as NVIDIA users do and it doesn't take months.

 

[happy medium]

over 100k people are playing it on steam right now, holy cow!!!

99,922 have gtx970's.

Has anyone here actually played the game?

 

[mysticjbyrd]

Agreed, AMD needs to do what they can to get the games people want to play to run well. But, GameWorks is still horse manure.

Gameworks is a monopolistic black box middleware that Nvidia is using to try to strongly encourage fans of certain games/franchises to buy Nvidia.

You can argue that AMD is also to blame, but the above fact will remain. That's why I really don't understand brand name loyalist, especially for Nvidia. Intel is far worse than Nvidia in this regard, but at least they have a superior product in the CPU division. But Nvidia products are arguably worse in many regards, yet people not only buy, but defend these types of tactics. I just don't get it....

 

[5150Joker]

Gameworks is a monopolistic black box middleware that Nvidia is using to try to strongly encourage fans of certain games/franchises to buy Nvidia.

You can argue that AMD is also to blame, but the above fact will remain.

Let's say that is true, what's wrong with that? Isn't that part of capitalism? Isn't Windows a black box too? Last I checked, most software was proprietary and not open source. Or is it only convenient to cry foul when AMD can't keep pace? Obviously the market doesn't object because NVIDIA has 82% of the discrete share last I checked and that probably will increase once we see a new JP report. So obviously whatever they are doing works and AMD should take note. Give this article a read: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/05/26/heres-why-nvidias-gameworks-is-perfectly-fair.aspx

 

[mysticjbyrd]

Let's say that is true, what's wrong with that? Isn't that part of a capitalism? Isn't Windows a black box too? Last I checked, most software was proprietary and not open source. Or is it only convenient to cry foul when AMD can't keep pace? Obviously the market doesn't object because NVIDIA has 82% of the discrete share last I checked and that probably will increase once we see a new JP report. So obviously whatever they are doing works and AMD should take note. Give this article a read: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/05/26/heres-why-nvidias-gameworks-is-perfectly-fair.aspx

Are you joking right now? You need me to explain why monopolies are illegal, and bad for consumers?

 

[5150Joker]

Are you joking right now? You need me to explain why monopolies are illegal, and bad for consumers?

Where's the monopoly? I don't see one anywhere. All I see is a company that started out BIGGER than NVIDIA failing over the last several years to where it's at now. And that's entirely because they made terrible decisions along the way that impacted their market performance. Why cry about monopolies and poo poo NVIDIA for doing it's job?

 

[Paul98]

Are you joking right now? You need me to explain why monopolies are illegal, and bad for consumers?

Don't even bother, once a side is chosen all they will see is good from their team.