PCI-Express 3.0 Coming

[Quiksilver]

Click.

I call this as WAY TO SOON.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

I still game on my pci-expressx16

 

[SneakyStuff]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
I still game on my pci-expressx16

I think the vast majority of us do, this is strange lol

 

[Sylvanas]

It will take another year or two after PCI-E 3.0's release for cards to fully utilize the bandwidth- so it will be a novelty until 2013 IMO, which is not so unreasonable.

 

[taltamir]

its really not too soon... most modern cards DO get a benfit from PCIe 2.0... and it is a must for multi GPUs who really depend on it...

And it is coming in a whole YEAR! and right now we are already getting the beastly GTX280 and the 48xx series.

 

[myocardia]

2009 For spec's, 2010, for final testing, 2011 for cards.

Then 2012 for the first motherboards. That's not really too soon, is it?

 

[Griswold]

Originally posted by: taltamir
its really not too soon... most modern cards DO get a benfit from PCIe 2.0...

Thats a fairy tale.

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: Griswold

Originally posted by: taltamir
its really not too soon... most modern cards DO get a benfit from PCIe 2.0...

Thats a fairy tale.

It is true to an extent, for example cards in Crossfire have to communicate via the PCI-E bus- added bandwidth that wouldn't otherwise exist with just one single GPU. Tweaktown compared a 3870X2 (both GPU's communicate via the PCI-E 1.1 bridge chip) and 3870 Crossfire here the results are going to be in favor of the X2 due to a 825mhz core clock on both GPU's and 775mhz on the 3870's- but in some scenarios the 3870's score better (e.g. Fear)- where you could argue the 3870's made up the ground due to more available bandwidth. It is for this reason many users have seen positive results when increasing the PCI-E bus with cards in Crossfire/SLI due to more available bandwidth being provided.

 

[Lonyo]

I fail to see how having something in the works for 3 years in the future is too soon. Especially when the thing will back backwards compatible.
AGP began in 1997 and had 3 revisions by 2004 when PCIe came in, and 2004 -> 2011 is the same 7 or so years for 3 revisions of PCIe.
Sounds like PCIe is just keeping pace with what we saw from AGP.

OP needs to consider that changes in computer hardware happen all the time and newer, faster things are always good, especially when they are revisions to existing specs which keep compatibility.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
I still game on my pci-expressx16

I still game on my AGP 8x. Maybe I should just wait for PCI-E 3:laugh:

 

[Fallen Kell]

Graphics cards are not what is driving the push of PCI-E. Everyone forgets that it is a standard system bus. The real devices pushing the PCI-E are things like 10 gig network cards, and SAS RAID arrays will use up a lot of the available lanes and total bandwidth available on computers. The servers and high performance computing initiatives are driving the needs for more bus bandwidth, not graphics cards in this case. You can't compare PCI-E with AGP in terms of how it was driven to be upgraded, there is nothing in common other than you can run a graphics card on it. You could also run a graphics card on the PCI bus and before that on the ISA bus. But at least in those other two cases, other devices also ran on the bus, unlike AGP which was graphics cards only. PCI-E is not graphics cards only, and thus you have other technology which is driving the need to upgrade it.

 

[Drsignguy]

As long as it's backwards compatible and my currant card works in it, I wouldn't have to upgrade as much and with different cards to accommodate a different slot. I like the Idea of using the same slot having upgrades as opposed to changing the slot and having to change vid cards, ( as much )

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Fallen Kell
Graphics cards are not what is driving the push of PCI-E. Everyone forgets that it is a standard system bus. The real devices pushing the PCI-E are things like 10 gig network cards, and SAS RAID arrays will use up a lot of the available lanes and total bandwidth available on computers. The servers and high performance computing initiatives are driving the needs for more bus bandwidth, not graphics cards in this case. You can't compare PCI-E with AGP in terms of how it was driven to be upgraded, there is nothing in common other than you can run a graphics card on it. You could also run a graphics card on the PCI bus and before that on the ISA bus. But at least in those other two cases, other devices also ran on the bus, unlike AGP which was graphics cards only. PCI-E is not graphics cards only, and thus you have other technology which is driving the need to upgrade it.

I don't recall saying graphics cards are driving the updates of the PCIe spec.
AGP is just an example of something being updated. I could have used USB or SATA or whatever else you want, but AGP is one which matches PCIe in terms of update speed.
The point was that it's never too soon when you consider it's backwards compatible, and it's not an unheard of rate of specification updating.
Revisions happen all the time, and the sooner the better really. It can't be too soon for faster speeds to arrive which don't break older hardware. It's just not possible. It doesn't matter what's driving the updates, they are always needed. Keeping ahead of demands is the aim of the game really.

 

[taltamir]

WE NEED MORE BIGGER STUFF!

There is ALWAYS room to upgrade

And if there isn't anything that needs such bandwidth right now, someone will MAKE something that needs such bandwidth.
Plus, they are also increasing the watts provided by the slot every time. If you put some PCIe1 cards in a PCIe2 slot you will get it to work at PCIe1 speed, but it will provide twice the power, and for some cards that means you would not need to plug in a cable directly to the card.

 

[Ogdin]

Originally posted by: Sylvanas

Originally posted by: Griswold

Originally posted by: taltamir
its really not too soon... most modern cards DO get a benfit from PCIe 2.0...

Thats a fairy tale.

It is true to an extent, for example cards in Crossfire have to communicate via the PCI-E bus- added bandwidth that wouldn't otherwise exist with just one single GPU. Tweaktown compared a 3870X2 (both GPU's communicate via the PCI-E 1.1 bridge chip) and 3870 Crossfire here the results are going to be in favor of the X2 due to a 825mhz core clock on both GPU's and 775mhz on the 3870's- but in some scenarios the 3870's score better (e.g. Fear)- where you could argue the 3870's made up the ground due to more available bandwidth. It is for this reason many users have seen positive results when increasing the PCI-E bus with cards in Crossfire/SLI due to more available bandwidth being provided.

Crossfire/sli aren't the only ones that see gains going to pci-e 2.0,the newer games that can't fit there textures into vram also show speed improvements on single card setups.When the resolution/IQ are high.
http://www.tomshardware.com/re...xpress-2-0,1915-9.html

 

[taltamir]

exactly.. which is why I said "Some cards and ALL multi GPU setups".

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Plus, they are also increasing the watts provided by the slot every time. If you put some PCIe1 cards in a PCIe2 slot you will get it to work at PCIe1 speed, but it will provide twice the power, and for some cards that means you would not need to plug in a cable directly to the card.

Both pci-e1 and pci-e2 only provide 75watt through the pci-e slot. The increase in power comes from the new 2x4 pin connector that provides 150 watts.

PCI-e 1: slot(75 watts) + 2x3 connector(75 watts) = 150 watts
PCI-e 2: slot(75 watts) + 2x3 connector(75 watts) + 2x4 connector(150watts) = 300 watts

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: taltamir

Plus, they are also increasing the watts provided by the slot every time. If you put some PCIe1 cards in a PCIe2 slot you will get it to work at PCIe1 speed, but it will provide twice the power, and for some cards that means you would not need to plug in a cable directly to the card.

Both pci-e1 and pci-e2 only provide 75watt through the pci-e slot. The increase in power comes from the new 2x4 pin connector that provides 150 watts.

PCI-e 1: slot(75 watts) + 2x3 connector(75 watts) = 150 watts
PCI-e 2: slot(75 watts) + 2x3 connector(75 watts) + 2x4 connector(150watts) = 300 watts

Nope, the 8pin connector is an addition to the PCI-E 2 standard, they actually DO bring 150w through the slot.

example 1

The new specification was finalized in January, which includes doubling the transfer rate from 2.5Gbps to 5.0Gbps and also doubling the amount of power that can be drawn through the slot to 150W.

example 2

There is more stuff I can say about the future of PCIE, but I have to point out that leaving the speed part, the new standard supports an additional 75W of power that will be drawn directly from the slot.

Example 3

although PCI Express 2.0 is still limited to 150W per slot, so high-end cards will still need the extra power connector.

This was all found with a quick google search, theres more but it has been known for a while that PCI-E 2.0 provides 150w through the slot (provided both motherboard and card are 2.0 capable).

 

[Quiksilver]

Originally posted by: Sylvanas

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: taltamir

Plus, they are also increasing the watts provided by the slot every time. If you put some PCIe1 cards in a PCIe2 slot you will get it to work at PCIe1 speed, but it will provide twice the power, and for some cards that means you would not need to plug in a cable directly to the card.

Both pci-e1 and pci-e2 only provide 75watt through the pci-e slot. The increase in power comes from the new 2x4 pin connector that provides 150 watts.

PCI-e 1: slot(75 watts) + 2x3 connector(75 watts) = 150 watts
PCI-e 2: slot(75 watts) + 2x3 connector(75 watts) + 2x4 connector(150watts) = 300 watts

Nope, the 8pin connector is an addition to the PCI-E 2 standard, they actually DO bring 150w through the slot.

example 1

The new specification was finalized in January, which includes doubling the transfer rate from 2.5Gbps to 5.0Gbps and also doubling the amount of power that can be drawn through the slot to 150W.

example 2

There is more stuff I can say about the future of PCIE, but I have to point out that leaving the speed part, the new standard supports an additional 75W of power that will be drawn directly from the slot.

Example 3

although PCI Express 2.0 is still limited to 150W per slot, so high-end cards will still need the extra power connector.

This was all found with a quick google search, theres more but it has been known for a while that PCI-E 2.0 provides 150w through the slot (provided both motherboard and card are 2.0 capable).

I don't think they actually implemented it though; in order to maintain backwards compatibility for PCI-E 1.X cards.

 

[Sylvanas]

Well it is part of the PCI-E 2.0 spec so if they didn't implement it they could not claim their parts to be '2.0 compatible'. Backwards compatibility was always going to be there from 1.1-2, the power output does not affect this as 1.0 cards are not going to magically receive an extra 75w when plugged into a 2.0 motherboard- it only provides the full 150 when both Motherboard and Graphics card are detected as being 2.0 compatible.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: taltamir
exactly.. which is why I said "Some cards and ALL multi GPU setups".

After looking through the review, it seems more like a tactic to get people to upgrade their motherboards. Even my 3+ year old Asus A8N-E had a PCI-E x16 slot...

From that review, even the PCI-E x8 lane is plenty to get you 95% performance of the x16 lane anyway. The only games that see improvements are typically games where the frames per second are so low anyway, that it doesn't make a huge difference.

FSX is a good example. While every frame helps, I will no doubt be passing on the title untl PC's can run that game satisfactory in the first place.

Crysis is another example. I'll turn down visuals until the game becomes playable or until we actually have cards that can 1) handle the video texture requirements, 2) can actually get playable frame-rates. Of course, subject to opinion (mine, actually)... But that is how I feel about this.

Edit ** After studying this even closer, it seems even x4 lane is sufficient for most games out there for a GX2. It seems the x4 offers 95% performance of a x16 lanes in the majority of games, and a few small games the results are about 85% of the performance of the x16 lane. Pretty small if you ask me. Definitely not a reason to upgrade, especially with the new cards that will have 1GB of local memory. That is - until games start consuming that much.

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: Sylvanas

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: taltamir

Plus, they are also increasing the watts provided by the slot every time. If you put some PCIe1 cards in a PCIe2 slot you will get it to work at PCIe1 speed, but it will provide twice the power, and for some cards that means you would not need to plug in a cable directly to the card.

Both pci-e1 and pci-e2 only provide 75watt through the pci-e slot. The increase in power comes from the new 2x4 pin connector that provides 150 watts.

PCI-e 1: slot(75 watts) + 2x3 connector(75 watts) = 150 watts
PCI-e 2: slot(75 watts) + 2x3 connector(75 watts) + 2x4 connector(150watts) = 300 watts

Nope, the 8pin connector is an addition to the PCI-E 2 standard, they actually DO bring 150w through the slot.

example 1

The new specification was finalized in January, which includes doubling the transfer rate from 2.5Gbps to 5.0Gbps and also doubling the amount of power that can be drawn through the slot to 150W.

example 2

There is more stuff I can say about the future of PCIE, but I have to point out that leaving the speed part, the new standard supports an additional 75W of power that will be drawn directly from the slot.

Example 3

although PCI Express 2.0 is still limited to 150W per slot, so high-end cards will still need the extra power connector.

This was all found with a quick google search, theres more but it has been known for a while that PCI-E 2.0 provides 150w through the slot (provided both motherboard and card are 2.0 capable).

Text

(From the answer to question 11)
A new 2x4 pin connector supplies additional power in the 225/300w specification

Nowhere does it say they increased the power that can go through the slot to 150 watts.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Awesome, never too early for better technology.