[PCPER.com] Nvidia: We're not planning support for Freesync

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exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
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They had positive feedback because it actually exists now. That variable refresh removes judder and tearing within the frequency range of the monitor was never in question. The questions that still need to be answered are on the quality of the implementation. This means testing input lag and fallback cases.

The 40~60hz monitors do not sound nearly as compelling as a 30~144hz monitor. If your max refresh rate is more than double your minimum, there are tricks you can do to make the minimum refresh rate irrelevant(I don't think anyone is using these tricks yet though.) Essentially, you can move the "display exactly when frame finishes" window to include the moment the frame is expected to finish. The bigger the gap between minimum and maximum refresh rate, the less precise you have to be about predicting the frame's render time. Even if you don't do those tricks, a 30~144hz monitor will bump any frame time above 33.3ms up to 41.3ms. A 40~60hz monitor will bump any frame time above 25ms up to 41.3ms.

So your best bet with a 40~60hz monitor is reducing settings so you never go below 40fps, and cap framerate in game to just under 60fps. I would really like to see these monitors bump their maximum refresh rate up to at least 62hz, so games with a hard coded 60hz framerate cap can run with less latency.

Thanks, yes this pretty much what I am looking for. The CES demo was fine, but it's not even close to a in-depth review.

Was just hoping someone like G3D or AT would get a sample they could throw through the paces for some more details.
 

NomanA

Member
May 15, 2014
128
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I am not sure why nVidia will ever support freesync, which is an AMD tech and exists in AMD GPUs.

However, they will support adaptive sync monitors sooner or later, and provide variable refresh rate. It'll probably be called GSync2, or just quietly be added under the same GSync label.
 

wand3r3r

Diamond Member
May 16, 2008
3,180
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PC Perspective had an interview with Nvidia's Tom Petersen the other day. He did talk about G-Sync/Freesync a little bit.

A lot of people are asking if G-Sync is immaterial now that the open source/free of charge Freesync is out, especially as Adaptive Synd(the underlying tech behind both G/F-Sync) is standard in DP 1.3 and not just in DP 1.2a.

Tom Peterson basically said; no. We're not going to support Freesync. On the other hand, his no was not categorical. He also added "you should never say never". How you interpret this depends on your outlook and assumptions.

My assumption continues to be. Nvidia will continue to support G-Sync until it's no longer possible to do so. The fact that they keep the door ajar at all times indicates that they know that the risk is that Freesync will simply be a no-brainer and as such they may have to pivot.

What I wonder though, can you really disable support for Adaptive Sync in DP 1.3? Because if, say, Pascal GPUs have native DP 1.3 support and AS is built into DP 1.3, can Nvidia really change any of that? I'm guessing that they can, from his comments, but still, how does one go about it in more techical terms. Anyone knows?


Link to the exact section: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHrSe0DtXHk#t=3247

Announcing upcoming support would decimate current G-Sync sales, however many there are.

The door is carefully left open with that statement though. I'm sure as RS stated they are carefully watching developments and biding their time while trying to maintain the vendor lock in that g sync provides (due to the high cost).
 

dn7309

Senior member
Dec 5, 2012
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My guess is that, if (or when) free sync comes to HDTV then NV will loose the adaptive sync battle.
 

Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,171
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Intel/AMD should work on getting this into laptops.

Whoever does this first gets my money. I need a new laptop anyway.
FreeSync was already demonstrated with an off-the-shelf Toshiba laptop.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014

So I'm a bit surprised that we haven't heard anything yet about official FreeSync capable laptops before now. Laptops would benefit from Adaptive-Sync even more than desktops given their low power/thermal GPUs/APUs.
 

SoulWager

Member
Jan 23, 2013
155
0
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FreeSync was already demonstrated with an off-the-shelf Toshiba laptop.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014

So I'm a bit surprised that we haven't heard anything yet about official FreeSync capable laptops before now. Laptops would benefit from Adaptive-Sync even more than desktops given their low power/thermal GPUs/APUs.
I'm not surprised at all, because variable refresh wasn't actually demonstrated until a year after that article. Check the framerates in the video. It's essentially a comparison of v-sync at 30hz to v-sync at 50hz.
 
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gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
3,714
1,069
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You mean like HD-DVD? Sony and its proprietary Blu-Ray would beg to differ.

HD-DVD was toshiba's format not an open source.

but since you want to go down that road.
sony betamax vs VHS
sony minidisc vs cd
apple firewire vs usb
3dfx glide vs dx
philips video cd vs dvd
circuit city DIVX vs dvd
sony memory stick or CF or MMC vs SD flash

and who exactly won the dvd r+ vs dvd r- battle? the consumer did when they simply waited for burners that could use both formats.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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Announcing upcoming support would decimate current G-Sync sales, however many there are.

The door is carefully left open with that statement though. I'm sure as RS stated they are carefully watching developments and biding their time while trying to maintain the vendor lock in that g sync provides (due to the high cost).

For sure, as soon as NV have it on public record they will support FS, nobody sane is going to buy GSync for the extra premium $.

If FS takes off and many new good monitors adopt it, it becomes a no brainer for NV to jump onboard. It would nullify one of AMD's few advantages instantly.
 

DooKey

Golden Member
Nov 9, 2005
1,811
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For sure, as soon as NV have it on public record they will support FS, nobody sane is going to buy GSync for the extra premium $.

If FS takes off and many new good monitors adopt it, it becomes a no brainer for NV to jump onboard. It would nullify one of AMD's few advantages instantly.

I'm willing to bet NV already has hardware designed to take advantage of a-sync. For now they are doing the smart thing and selling their own G-Sync since it currently owns the market.

I bought a ROG because it's the only thing there is that gives me beautiful tear free gaming and has a 144hz refresh.
 

Eymar

Golden Member
Aug 30, 2001
1,646
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I'm willing to bet NV already has hardware designed to take advantage of a-sync. For now they are doing the smart thing and selling their own G-Sync since it currently owns the market.

I bought a ROG because it's the only thing there is that gives me beautiful tear free gaming and has a 144hz refresh.

Bought a ROG for same reason. Honestly I can't tell if there is any lag difference from 120hz with VSync on (Triple Buffer on) that I previously gamed with. The biggest difference from VSync on to G-Sync is no stutter\hitches when FPS goes from say 120 to 80. That being said I really hope Adaptive Sync monitors do take off and Nvidia will support it in the future. If that happens that should mean Adaptive Refresh Rate is not a premium feature and a mainstream feature. It would really be nice in a few years that Vsync is a thing of the past.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
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The 40~60hz monitors do not sound nearly as compelling as a 30~144hz monitor.

Some of those monitors were 30-60Hz. I thought that current GSync module only supports 30-144Hz range, while FreeSync itself works from 9-240 Hz. While we are unlikely to see monitors supporting such a wide range as colour and contrast get destroyed at higher Hz, the 30-60Hz FreeSync limits for early units are strictly the manufacturer's choice/panel's own limitations, not that of FreeSync. There should be no reason at all why we won't see 30-144Hz FreeSync monitors.

You mean like HD-DVD? Sony and its proprietary Blu-Ray would beg to differ.

The comparison of FreeSync to Gsync and HD-DVD vs. BluRay doesn't work. BluRay is now an "industry standard" so to speak and any company can make a BluRay capable player, gaming console, etc. In a sense while BluRay is a proprietary standard in that way, it's actually open to the market. GSync is nothing like that.

If FreeSync manages to be at least as good as GSync, minus the added module complexity and cost, then AMD and VESA have engineered a superior solution to GSync for the consumers. NV can still to refuse to support adaptive V-Sync at that point and lock it out of DP 1.3 on purpose. AMD explained that DP1.2a+ automatically supports adaptive V-Sync and FreeSync will work on such a monitor without it being certified as a "FreeSync" monitor.

Asus' 27" 2560x1440 IPS 120hz monitor supports FreeSync/Adaptive Sync automatically without any extra royalty whatsoever:

"After talking with AMD's Robert Hallock at the show, he confirmed that AMD will not have a whitelist/blacklist policy for FreeSync displays and that as long as a monitor adheres to the standards of DP 1.2a+ then they will operate in the variable refresh rate window as defined by the display's EDID."
http://www.pcper.com/news/Displays/...2560x1440-IPS-120-Hz-Variable-Refresh-Monitor

On the face of it, NV wants us to PAY extra for a feature that currently appears to be not better than FreeSync/VESA A-Sync. FreeSync also allows for more control over when you can enable Vsync lock, unlike GSync:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7-jn07jy8I

Also, NV has not exactly been transparent about how GSync will make its way into thin and light form factor laptops. Intel and AMD's APUs will continue to improve in GPU performance. Sooner or later it will be possible to play games on a 12" MacBook Air but such a thin form factor laptop will not be able to fit and cool down a GSync module.
 
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Pottuvoi

Senior member
Apr 16, 2012
416
2
81
As expected.

Although I doubt they would say anything differently even if they would announce support for it within next couple of months. (or tomorrow)
It's not wise to talk about unannounced features/support/hardware etc. NDA is not something you break without consequences.
 
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