Pelosi promises to be a bipartisan House speaker

[Vic]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic
-- the right to withdraw oneself from society.

That is not being a realist, it is running or isolating yourself, which is why I say libertarianism it is nothing less then a utopian economic cult people grow out of sooner or later.

it's a utopian fantasy or cult, which appeals to people with an overly strong internal locus of control. I.e., people who have a strong need to believe that they are in control of their destiny. Such people are unreasonably terrified at the notion of government "intrusion" in their lives. Hence any government that might act to limit availability of deadly weapons of mass slaughter must be evil, in the warped mind of the libertarian.

So... a person who believes in individual liberty has an "overly strong internal locus of control" and a "warped mind," but power hungry control freaking assholes like you and rot who want to control everything that everyone else does and believes are a-okay?

:roll:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic
as being opposed to the 2nd amendment again?

You want to bait me into gun-control issue so bad, then all the statist authoritarian dittoheads on the right will flame me to no end with their small pen0r complex about firearms protections, no thanks.

:laugh:

You were the one who said the Constitution would protect our 1st amendment right to freedom of speech while at the same time defending aidanjm's anti-2nd amendment position.

Must we go through another one of those ordeals where you make yourself and your argument look ridiculous for page after page again, and you're always to stupid to realize it?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic
-- the right to withdraw oneself from society.

That is not being a realist, it is running or isolating yourself, which is why I say libertarianism it is nothing less then a utopian economic cult people grow out of sooner or later.

it's a utopian fantasy or cult, which appeals to people with an overly strong internal locus of control. I.e., people who have a strong need to believe that they are in control of their destiny. Such people are unreasonably terrified at the notion of government "intrusion" in their lives. Hence any government that might act to limit availability of deadly weapons of mass slaughter must be evil, in the warped mind of the libertarian.

So... a person who believes in individual liberty has an "overly strong internal locus of control" and a "warped mind," but power hungry control freaking assholes like you and rot who want to control everything that everyone else does and believes are a-okay?

:roll:

Makes you wonder how delusional these people are.

I dont think they have any understanding of what liberty really is. Their idea appears to be have the govt provide nearly everything. When that happens, how free am I?

 

[Steeplerot]

Back on Topic: (Your a funny guy Vic)



Nancy Pelosi Acceptance Speech:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqZ7hdlumYg&eurl=

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Their idea appears to be have the govt provide nearly everything. When that happens, how free am I?

Actually this is where your paranoid delusion makes it so difficult to have the simplest grasp of where others are coming from.

Noone ever said that, your just a wingnut who thinks others do, delusional is a mild word for this garbage.

Non-reality, it's why the righties lost, wake up, pull your head out from sen. mccarthys ass and join the rest of thinking america.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic
-- the right to withdraw oneself from society.

That is not being a realist, it is running or isolating yourself, which is why I say libertarianism it is nothing less then a utopian economic cult people grow out of sooner or later.

it's a utopian fantasy or cult, which appeals to people with an overly strong internal locus of control. I.e., people who have a strong need to believe that they are in control of their destiny. Such people are unreasonably terrified at the notion of government "intrusion" in their lives. Hence any government that might act to limit availability of deadly weapons of mass slaughter must be evil, in the warped mind of the libertarian.

So... a person who believes in individual liberty has an "overly strong internal locus of control" and a "warped mind," but power hungry control freaking assholes like you and rot who want to control everything that everyone else does and believes are a-okay?

:roll:

Makes you wonder how delusional these people are.

I dont think they have any understanding of what liberty really is. Their idea appears to be have the govt provide nearly everything. When that happens, how free am I?

You see... it's a "public health and safety issue." It's for our own good. They know best. :roll:

They're basically just like Christian fundamentalists. They want to save our souls whether we like it or not.

 

[Steeplerot]

I am sorry, but anyone who could say American Liberals (or a people in general) want the government to do everything for them and want handouts have 0 credibility, rather you are some ate-up nutcase so isolated form reality you can't even see the world in front of your eyes.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I am sorry, but anyone who could say American Liberals (or a people in general) want the government to do everything for them and want handouts have 0 credibility, rather you are some ate-up nutcase so isolated form reality you can't even see the world in front of your eyes.

So if I'm a law-abiding citizen with no criminal record, can I still own a gun?
If I'm a healthy person with no need for health care, do I still have to pay into that "free" healthcare system?

Somewhere along the line, I recall that you were talking about authoritarians, but when I questioned that, it seems that I was told to STFU, go back to work, and pay my damn taxes...

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic
-- the right to withdraw oneself from society.

That is not being a realist, it is running or isolating yourself, which is why I say libertarianism it is nothing less then a utopian economic cult people grow out of sooner or later.

it's a utopian fantasy or cult, which appeals to people with an overly strong internal locus of control. I.e., people who have a strong need to believe that they are in control of their destiny. Such people are unreasonably terrified at the notion of government "intrusion" in their lives. Hence any government that might act to limit availability of deadly weapons of mass slaughter must be evil, in the warped mind of the libertarian.

So... a person who believes in individual liberty has an "overly strong internal locus of control" and a "warped mind," but power hungry control freaking assholes like you and rot who want to control everything that everyone else does and believes are a-okay?

:roll:

there's that metastasized internal locus of control I was referring to. I believe that liberatarians are 'created' by domineering, overly controlling mothers. As a little boy, you had to fight to defend your very sense of existence, because your mother was basically stomping all over you. That has colored your politics ever since. It's sad, really.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic
as being opposed to the 2nd amendment again?

You want to bait me into gun-control issue so bad, then all the statist authoritarian dittoheads on the right will flame me to no end with their small pen0r complex about firearms protections, no thanks.

:laugh:

You were the one who said the Constitution would protect our 1st amendment right to freedom of speech while at the same time defending aidanjm's anti-2nd amendment position.

Must we go through another one of those ordeals where you make yourself and your argument look ridiculous for page after page again, and you're always to stupid to realize it?

sadly, gun control is a lost cause in the USA. but privately, I am sure most liberals will continue believing that fewer guns on the streets and in homes would create a safer society.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic
-- the right to withdraw oneself from society.

That is not being a realist, it is running or isolating yourself, which is why I say libertarianism it is nothing less then a utopian economic cult people grow out of sooner or later.

it's a utopian fantasy or cult, which appeals to people with an overly strong internal locus of control. I.e., people who have a strong need to believe that they are in control of their destiny. Such people are unreasonably terrified at the notion of government "intrusion" in their lives. Hence any government that might act to limit availability of deadly weapons of mass slaughter must be evil, in the warped mind of the libertarian.

So... a person who believes in individual liberty has an "overly strong internal locus of control" and a "warped mind," but power hungry control freaking assholes like you and rot who want to control everything that everyone else does and believes are a-okay?

:roll:

there's that metastasized internal locus of control I was referring to. I believe that liberatarians are 'created' by domineering, overly controlling mothers. As a little boy, you had to fight (or felt you had to fight) to defend your will (or sense of existence, really). That has colored your politics ever since. It's sad, really.

It really is a shame, I don't understand how american people are gloryfying selfishness and self-centeredness as a "American Traditional Value".

I would lmao if it was not so pathetic and shows such a lack of character on their parts, maybe they were the "middle kid" or something and always paranoid of getting his mashed potatoes taken by a sibling so must always get his.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic
-- the right to withdraw oneself from society.

That is not being a realist, it is running or isolating yourself, which is why I say libertarianism it is nothing less then a utopian economic cult people grow out of sooner or later.

it's a utopian fantasy or cult, which appeals to people with an overly strong internal locus of control. I.e., people who have a strong need to believe that they are in control of their destiny. Such people are unreasonably terrified at the notion of government "intrusion" in their lives. Hence any government that might act to limit availability of deadly weapons of mass slaughter must be evil, in the warped mind of the libertarian.

So... a person who believes in individual liberty has an "overly strong internal locus of control" and a "warped mind," but power hungry control freaking assholes like you and rot who want to control everything that everyone else does and believes are a-okay?

:roll:

Makes you wonder how delusional these people are.

I dont think they have any understanding of what liberty really is. Their idea appears to be have the govt provide nearly everything. When that happens, how free am I?

You see... it's a "public health and safety issue." It's for our own good. They know best. :roll:

They're basically just like Christian fundamentalists. They want to save our souls whether we like it or not.

well, no. I don't give a pinch of sh1t about your soul. I would like to live in a society where quality health care is available for evey child (every adult for that matter), where I don't have to worry that the angry guy in the car at the intersection isn't going to whip out a gunand start shooting, etc.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: aidanjm
from a perspective of civilized, first world nations, Dave's views are very moderate. There are very view people on tis forum with political viewpoints that are to the far left. Support of abortion on demand, gun bans, nationalised health care and pharmaceuticals - these are very mainstream positions in the first world.

I'm pro-choice but otherwise all those positions, mainstream or not, are all about as anti-liberal and as pro-authoritarian as anything could be. What's next for Australia? A state religion? Or are you planning on recognizing the direct absolute rule of the Queen?

It's frightening, isn't it Vic? Some deluded people think authoritarians only exist on the right.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic
-- the right to withdraw oneself from society.

That is not being a realist, it is running or isolating yourself, which is why I say libertarianism it is nothing less then a utopian economic cult people grow out of sooner or later.

it's a utopian fantasy or cult, which appeals to people with an overly strong internal locus of control. I.e., people who have a strong need to believe that they are in control of their destiny. Such people are unreasonably terrified at the notion of government "intrusion" in their lives. Hence any government that might act to limit availability of deadly weapons of mass slaughter must be evil, in the warped mind of the libertarian.

So... a person who believes in individual liberty has an "overly strong internal locus of control" and a "warped mind," but power hungry control freaking assholes like you and rot who want to control everything that everyone else does and believes are a-okay?

:roll:

there's that metastasized internal locus of control I was referring to. I believe that liberatarians are 'created' by domineering, overly controlling mothers. As a little boy, you had to fight (or felt you had to fight) to defend your will (or sense of existence, really). That has colored your politics ever since. It's sad, really.

:laugh:

Oh please.... :roll: way to make a bad pseudo-Freudian analysis. At least try taking some psychology classes before you resort to such pathetical ad hom arguments.


Oh, and remember that left libertarian -- Peter McWilliams -- the one that I said influenced my politics more than anyone else. Yeah, well, he was gay, a prominent California and died tragically of AIDS in 2000.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic
-- the right to withdraw oneself from society.

That is not being a realist, it is running or isolating yourself, which is why I say libertarianism it is nothing less then a utopian economic cult people grow out of sooner or later.

it's a utopian fantasy or cult, which appeals to people with an overly strong internal locus of control. I.e., people who have a strong need to believe that they are in control of their destiny. Such people are unreasonably terrified at the notion of government "intrusion" in their lives. Hence any government that might act to limit availability of deadly weapons of mass slaughter must be evil, in the warped mind of the libertarian.

How is that any different than people who are terrified at the notion of government intrusion into the conversations and correspondence of it citizens? Does that indicate a warped mind? Obviously if you have nothing to hide, privacy laws are merely interfering in the government pursuit of safety for it's people.

You're a classic leftist authoritarian. You have no problem limiting the freedoms of others when they're the freedoms that don't interest you, yet you piss and moan when someone else attacks the freedoms that you do value.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Vic

Oh, and remember that left libertarian -- Peter McWilliams -- the one that I said influenced my politics more than anyone else. Yeah, well, he was gay, a prominent California and died tragically of AIDS in 2000.

Wow, pulling the gay card on aidanjm, how cute.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic
-- the right to withdraw oneself from society.

That is not being a realist, it is running or isolating yourself, which is why I say libertarianism it is nothing less then a utopian economic cult people grow out of sooner or later.

it's a utopian fantasy or cult, which appeals to people with an overly strong internal locus of control. I.e., people who have a strong need to believe that they are in control of their destiny. Such people are unreasonably terrified at the notion of government "intrusion" in their lives. Hence any government that might act to limit availability of deadly weapons of mass slaughter must be evil, in the warped mind of the libertarian.

So... a person who believes in individual liberty has an "overly strong internal locus of control" and a "warped mind," but power hungry control freaking assholes like you and rot who want to control everything that everyone else does and believes are a-okay?

:roll:

there's that metastasized internal locus of control I was referring to. I believe that liberatarians are 'created' by domineering, overly controlling mothers. As a little boy, you had to fight (or felt you had to fight) to defend your will (or sense of existence, really). That has colored your politics ever since. It's sad, really.

It really is a shame, I don't understand how american people are gloryfying selfishness and self-centeredness as a "American Traditional Value".

I would lmao if it was not so pathetic and shows such a lack of character on their parts, maybe they were the "middle kid" or something and always paranoid of getting his mashed potatoes taken by a sibling so must always get his.

There is nothing more selfish and self-centered, and lacking in character, than thinking entitlements are rights. If you want to continue with the pseudo-psychology insult, you're basically spoiled brats whose mommies gave you everything you wanted except love. Ah....

What I've always wondered is... how do you lie to yourself that your selfishness, your personal sense of entitlement, is actually in the best interests of others?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic

Oh, and remember that left libertarian -- Peter McWilliams -- the one that I said influenced my politics more than anyone else. Yeah, well, he was gay, a prominent California and died tragically of AIDS in 2000.

Wow, pulling the gay card on aidanjm, how cute.

Hey, he was a libertarian. Must have been that dominant mother thing, right? :roll:

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Vic


What I've always wondered is... how do you lie to yourself that your selfishness, your personal sense of entitlement, is actually in the best interests of others?

And your own view of personal gain on the backs of others not an entitlement?
Any accomplishment you make in life is in some way is due to to others work.

No man is a ship unto himself.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
It's frightening, isn't it Vic? Some deluded people think authoritarians only exist on the right.

It's because they live in a distopian fantasy world of us vs. them. Us is always right and in the right, them is always the bringer of evil and death.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic


What I've always wondered is... how do you lie to yourself that your selfishness, your personal sense of entitlement, is actually in the best interests of others?

And your own view of personal gain on the backs of others not an entitlement?
Any accomplishment you make in life is in some way is due to to others work.

No man is a ship unto himself.

My personal gain never takes place on the backs of others. Generally speaking, I'm a merchant engaged in fair mutual consenting trade. If any accomplishment I make is in some way due to others work, then any accomplishment others make is in some way due to my work. We work together -- voluntarily -- for our own mutual benefits.

Where have I ever argued that any man is "a ship unto himself"? That's a straw man you created in your ignorance.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic


What I've always wondered is... how do you lie to yourself that your selfishness, your personal sense of entitlement, is actually in the best interests of others?

And your own view of personal gain on the backs of others not an entitlement?
Any accomplishment you make in life is in some way is due to to others work.

No man is a ship unto himself.

My personal gain never takes place on the backs of others. Generally speaking, I'm a merchant engaged in fair mutual consenting trade. If any accomplishment I make is in some way due to others work, then any accomplishment others make is in some way due to my work. We work together -- voluntarily -- for our own mutual benefits.

Where have I ever argued that any man is "a ship unto himself"? That's a straw man you created in your ignorance.

Wrong, you do not exist in a vacuum, this is where we will probably have to agree to disagree, and where you get fundamentalist,

We all owe society for what it shares with us, and if we contribute to it life does owe us a living also.

It's called civilization, welcome, notice how their are no libertarian experiments ever done except in sh1tholes like rwanda or somalia or whatever.

Sometimes it is not fair, but life just is not fair, and people are flawed -which will always be the death of any form of anarchist utopia, market or communist.

Like anything else in life it's a balance.

You could always move out into the woods, trade fur or something.

But then you wouldn't be part of society as a whole anyway, hippies nowdays do this at rainbow gatherings, and just like them I am sure you would crawl back to "babylon" soon enough. (That is if you don't become this isolated unibomber paranoid sort by yourself.)

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic


What I've always wondered is... how do you lie to yourself that your selfishness, your personal sense of entitlement, is actually in the best interests of others?

And your own view of personal gain on the backs of others not an entitlement?
Any accomplishment you make in life is in some way is due to to others work.

No man is a ship unto himself.

My personal gain never takes place on the backs of others. Generally speaking, I'm a merchant engaged in fair mutual consenting trade. If any accomplishment I make is in some way due to others work, then any accomplishment others make is in some way due to my work. We work together -- voluntarily -- for our own mutual benefits.

Where have I ever argued that any man is "a ship unto himself"? That's a straw man you created in your ignorance.

Wrong, you do not exist in a vacuum, this is where we will probably have to agree to disagree, and where you get fundamentalist,

We all owe society for what it shares with us, and if we contribute to it life does owe us a living also.

It's called civilization, welcome, notice how their are no libertarian experiments ever done except in sh1tholes like rwanda or somalia or whatever.

Sometimes it is not fair, but life just is not fair, and people are flawed -which will always be the death of any form of anarchist utopia, market or communist.

Like anything else in life it's a balance.

You just can't get by without lies and straw men can you?

Once more, you go back to them. I say that no man is ship unto himself, you say, "wrong, you do not live in a vacuum." Really, when you keep ignoring my arguments and keep creating little straw men that you pretend are my arguments, how long do you think you can go before everyone thinks you're just a stupid coward blowing ignorant hot air? You want to argue, argue my arguments, not your fantasies.

For the 10 millionth time, Libertarianism isn't anarchy. How many times are you going to resort to that straw man? Libertarianism isn't the warlords in Rwanda or Somalia. That's the antithesis of Libertarianism, where the state exists for itself and the people get screwed. Libertarianism is ideals embodied in the United States Constitution, where the state exists solely for the protection of the rights of individual people. For the last time, you mental moron, get it straight.

And if we all owe society for what it shares with us, then why are you only interested in taking and not giving? Take people's property, "fsck the rich," take people's rights, humans are evil, blah blah blah, that's what your ideology adds up to. Nothing constructive, nothing helpful, everything destructive. That's you. If you really wanted to help people, you'd go out and do it, not bitch and moan from the sidelines about the people you think aren't doing enough to help.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Vic

For the 10 millionth time, Libertarianism isn't anarchy.

Well, if they want to get elected they are not.

But then commies run for office too, in the end both views want to kill the state off at some point in their "enlightenment".

Don't make me cut and paste to disprove your denial of Libertarianism being a anarcho idea.

Geez, talk about dishonest.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Vic
For the 10 millionth time, Libertarianism isn't anarchy.

Well, if they want to get elected they are not.

But then commies run for office too, in the end both views want to kill the state off at some point in their "enlightenment".

Don't make me cut and paste to disprove your denial of Libertarianism being a anarcho idea.

Geez, talk about dishonest.

American Libertarianism is a classical liberal philosophy, a type of minarchism, i.e. "the government is best that governs least," based upon the classical liberal philosophies of John Locke, Thomas Jefferson, the rest of the Founding Fathers, etc.

Anarchy, anarcho-socialism, and anarcho-capitalism are all separate philosophies, occasionally confused by some as being Libertarian, but actually having nothing to do with mainstream Libertarianism or the Libertarian party. It's not about getting elected. The ideologies of anarchy are completely incompatible with the basic Libertarian philosophy of a state that exists with the consent of the governed solely to protect the rights of the individual people.

Don't talk to me about dishonesty when you don't even know what the fsck you're talking about.