i would have to get bill or hillary to hook me up with the russians.Go tell your Russian GRU pals to give you a lesson in reasoning and impressing favorably. You fail miserably at both.
he has already won more than your collective party in 20 years....would be what delusional supporters probably think, sure. The kind of morons who believe the "Totally clears the president" tweet, hook like and sinker. Sad, I believe is the term.
But everyone else saw that for what it was: a confused, woefully unintelligent bully throwing a fit, and getting bitchslapped by people quite tired of his imperious yet infantile bullshit.
You should definitely keep trying to polish that orange turd though, it'll start winning any day now.
Totally disagree on his analysis. Thoughts like this is what get Ds in trouble.
1. The dreamers were put into that position by Trump in order to take a hostage, assuming the Ds are bleeding hearts and will fold.
Giving in will embolden him to do it again. See the Huawai executive as another example.
2. The Wall itself has been rooted in racism by Trump. It's meaning has gone far beyond any practical value as an immigration deterrent (which was questionable at best.)
Giving in signals to the D base that they are weak and willing to compromise on core party values to cut deals with Trump. Him holding up his end will never be trusted... and they will find they are not either if they deal. The Wall would remain as a shameful monument to Trump's bigotry and ego, and the Democrats cowardice.
Trump has made it a politically toxic issue. They cannot, should not touch it.
Another side to this is discussed in this editorial I just read.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...6a6f3ce8199_story.html?utm_term=.e58beb52e2bc
He says that the dems have in effect cancelled their leverage with Trump by refusing to provide wall funding under any circumstances. This is the meat of it here:
So, have the dems decided that it's actually better policy wise to deny $5 billion to start wall construction than to legalize 2 million dreamers? Or have they, instead, decided as a political calculus that it is better to prevent Trump from delivering on his signature promise, so that they can nail him over it in 2020? If so, arguably it looks like GOP obstructionism under Obama.
I'm opposed to the wall, but I'm starting to think they should cut a deal for the dreamers here. Even if you just want to look at this cynically as pure politics, who do you think these dreamers are going to be voting for once they're legal?
he has already won more than your collective party in 20 years.
Excuse me, but the current GOP majority in the HOR has not offered up any funding for the Wall. They could do so tomorrow, advance it to the Senate at which point the Dems would have some say. The point that Trump & a lot of people are desperately avoiding is that the GOP doesn't want this stupid fucking Wall either. If they did, they'd be doing something other than letting Trump blame Dems for their own inaction.
Are you trying to beat slow's karma rating in a single thread? Bold strategy, might work.in reality land. of course you know nothing of this.
They already passed a bill for wall funding and legalizing dreamers in both Houses and Trump vetoed it? When did that happen?
I think Trump will sign almost any bill that provides wall funding. He's obsessed with delivering on that promise.
The actual reality behind why the previous deal fell through and why Trump would never agree to it is that his voter base would drop by 50%. Anyone that really cares about getting the wall built also really hates brown people no matter how many times they tell you about their black friend. When it looked like Trump was going to exchange DACA for the wall funding his base went apeshit. Example A:Interesting point. You're correct that any such deal would require cooperation from some of the repugs in Congress. But nowhere near all. Yet I guaranty you that some of those assholes do want this wall. Of course some of them do. They're bigots and, more importantly, they know that their voting base in these deep red states are also bigots who love Trump and want this wall.
It's really just the hardcore fiscal conservatives who don't want it. But that faction is the minority of them at this stage. They have never really been a fiscally conservative party anyway.
in reality land. of course you know nothing of this.
The Queen is back in town - a chess player in a game with a checkers player (Trump)!
I'll just post this little gem of a pic here, in case anyone wishes know what a "President Pelosi" might look like, once Trump & Pence are thrown in jail - in which case Speaker of the House will become President!View attachment 1523
pence aint going to jail. All he does is sit and stare.
this is completely false. we just want ILLEGAL immigration to stop. legal is fine.The actual reality behind why the previous deal fell through and why Trump would never agree to it is that his voter base would drop by 50%. Anyone that really cares about getting the wall built also really hates brown people no matter how many times they tell you about their black friend. When it looked like Trump was going to exchange DACA for the wall funding his base went apeshit. Example A:
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/01/...ca-lovefest-dems-worse-anything-fire-and-fury
Does that make us green staters?I see why they are called red staters now.
Yes thank you I see your black friend.this is completely false. we just want ILLEGAL immigration to stop. legal is fine.
Yea, he (Transistion Chairman) was completely in the dark about Flynn' status, in fact he claims Flynn lied to him. If you believe that story, I have a bridge to show you.pence aint going to jail. All he does is sit and stare.
The only argument I see in here to address the actual tradeoff is "The Wall would remain as a shameful monument to Trump's bigotry and ego, and the Democrats cowardice." Yet that last part, the "cowardice" part, assumes that the negatives of the wall outweigh the positives of legalizing 2 million dreamers. You're just treating that as an assumed premise without addressing both sides of that equation. It's only cowardice and caving in if the dems are getting less than they're giving. I'm not so sure about that.
I think the dems would be foolish to not test the limits of how badly Trump wants this stupid wall. I think he wants it quite badly. Yet I don't think the dems should go to him and offer the wall for DACA, as an opening offer.
Go to him and tell him the only deal they're willing to accept is for legalization of all 13 million undocumented immigrants. Trump won't take this one because his base would revolt. But what is he willing to offer instead? Would he offer DACA plus, say, some action on climate change? Let's find out where Trump's limit is here. Trump's wants this badly and he is not a rational man. He may agree to something that many in his own party think is way too much and then Trump is the one who looks like he caved.
So yes, go to him and ask for the moon. Let's see what he's willing to give.
@SMOGZINN and @Jhhnn make good points.
I'd add they could have made this deal earlier in the spring and they never did bc the GOP house wasn't having it. Trump's leverage is only getting worse as time goes on.
Neither Trump or Nancy can make a deal their party would accept.
Trump has to be seen trying, however Nan-Chuck cannot be seen negotiating on this. There is no win to be had here.
We're in the honeymoon of the midterms, but they are not entirely trusted, even by their progressive and racially diverse base.
Even cracking the door open (by two old white people) to the Wall will be seen as weak and conniving, and a betrayal to principals.
How was Obama received when he was negotiating "the Grand Bargain" to cut SS/Medicare with Bohner after they threatened gov shutdown and defaulting on the debt?
Celebrated as a pragmatic centrist, showing fiscal responsibility and concern for the debt?
Maybe that's what his advisers convinced him of (maybe that author was one of them), but to the party he looked like a dupe, a sellout to the party's legacy and willing to give in to blackmail.
In the end the deal fell apart based on outrage on both sides.
Stupid Rs shutdown gov anyway, lost the PR battle and settled.
However, they did learn that hostages work.
Trump is using the same playbook, convinced his genius will have a different outcome. It won't of course, but that show of weakness by Obama back then emboldened Rs to keep trying taking hostages. It has to stop here.
Blame Obama! How quaint.
Lessons learned man. That was a bad move by him.
Are you trying to beat slow's karma rating in a single thread? Bold strategy, might work.