Penn State protects child rapist that was former famous D-Coordinator

[sixone]

how hard is it for you to understand that by using your logic, the message that is sent is only a few will be punished--your program will remain intact. carry on--we'll be around to punish accordingly the next time this happens.

The fact is this: those involved knew what they were protecting and knew what was at stake. Obviously you do not.

How hard is it for you to understand that only the GUILTY should be punished, but the INNOCENT should not.

The program is NO LONGER intact - they've lost one of the best coaches in college history, and their reputation is tarnished forever. They're almost guaranteed to be sued, and what jury isn't going to give Sandusky's victims every penny they ask for, if not more?

The NCAA can't punish the guilty parties in any meaningful way. They can only punish the innocents, and that's not fair or reasonable.

 

[waggy]

And by extension, themselves actually. Do you think they would have protected the program unless they had a vested interest in it? They were also protecting one of their own. It's not like they fired him and told him to go far away.

agreed. they are in reality one and the same. JOPA was the football program. he was the face and had tons of power. His reputation also brought in a bunch of donations and kids.

 

[zinfamous]

And somehow magically the NCAA never heard about it? How are they any less obligated to act than the school was?

If the program should be punished, so should the NCAA.

so you defend the institutional culture that protected the rapist, absolving them of punishment; yet in the same breath you argue that the NCAA should punish itself for this mess, as an equally culpable player as the few PSU individuals involved?


This is exactly what you are saying, and you know it.

what a crazy mess resides inside your noggin.

 

[zinfamous]

The institution didn't do jack. The people running the institution did, and those people should be punished to the full extent of criminal and civil penalties.

But it should end there.

Correct.


is this the beginning of progress for you?

 

[GrumpyMan]

So by some of the thinking of some of these posts, the Nazi Party in Germany should of been left intact, only the trigger pullers and concentration camp guards should of gotten punished, the administrators should of been left alone and the institution should not of gotten punished and been left to stand. Where would we be today had we really done this? When an institution goes awry, it needs to be wiped out.

 

[zinfamous]

And by extension, themselves actually. Do you think they would have protected the program unless they had a vested interest in it? They were also protecting one of their own. It's not like they fired him and told him to go far away.

Indeed. McQuery came out as a witness for the prosecution, but it's rather clear that his involvement in the cover up was rather personal--up and coming team manager looking for that lofty assistant coach position.

I think any reasonable admin (and JoePa figure), however, should be able to clearly value the need to bring this to light, rather than cover it up.

They were not criminals, they were not involved, until they acted to cover it up. How, then, would individuals at their lofty positions be thinking of themselves? The only logical reasoning for them to cover this up would be that they were thinking of PSU, of this culture, of whatever it is beyond them deserving of protection.

It's quite perverse.

 

[sixone]

Those individuals represented the institution. Individuals that were trying to protect the institution that allowed a child rapist to continue his rampage for another ten years. Thus the institution is to blame for this child rapist not to be caught for another ten year. THE INSTITUTION.

It's ignorant mindsets like yours, why the punishment needs to be so harsh b/c people like you don't get it.

They represented the institution, directed it, and manipulated it. And now they're gone. They aren't part of the institution anymore, so how are future sanctions against the institution going to be useful?

Do you think those people give a rat's ass what happens to PSU, now? If they ever cared, they would have protected their precious institution by giving Sandusky the boot years ago.

If firing them and subjecting them to criminal and civil penalties isn't deterrent enough, there's nothing the NCAA can do to them, at this point.

The only people that the NCAA has power over are the people who are still with the institution.

 

[RPD]

What is so difficult about this? The same reason Pedo State is being punished is the same reason someone sues a cop that went overboard on duty and wins millions. Does the cop pay the millions, no, the agency that EMPLOYED him does.

Herp, derp.

 

[Miramonti]

Clearly we're getting emotional here and not making any sense. According to the logic by someone here, schools shouldn't even be punished for recruiting violations, just the individuals who got caught.

Good luck with that one, lol.

 

[zinfamous]

How hard is it for you to understand that only the GUILTY should be punished, but the INNOCENT should not.

The program is NO LONGER intact - they've lost one of the best coaches in college history, and their reputation is tarnished forever. They're almost guaranteed to be sued, and what jury isn't going to give Sandusky's victims every penny they ask for, if not more?

The NCAA can't punish the guilty parties in any meaningful way. They can only punish the innocents, and that's not fair or reasonable.

So, again--the NCAA can't punish PSU for what PSU did, but you believe the NCAA should punish themselves for what the NCAA didn't know about?



I see why your approval rating is so deplorable around these parts.

 

[Miramonti]

So by some of the thinking of some of these posts, the Nazi Party in Germany should of been left intact, only the trigger pullers and concentration camp guards should of gotten punished, the administrators should of been left alone and the institution should not of gotten punished and been left to stand. Where would we be today had we really done this? When an institution goes awry, it needs to be wiped out.

There is no thinking in 'some of these posts'. At this point it's all hormones talking.

 

[zinfamous]

So by some of the thinking of some of these posts, the Nazi Party in Germany should of been left intact, only the trigger pullers and concentration camp guards should of gotten punished, the administrators should of been left alone and the institution should not of gotten punished and been left to stand. Where would we be today had we really done this? When an institution goes awry, it needs to be wiped out.

I would invoke Godwin, but I'm sure than in a 1500 page thread discussing institutionalized child rape, Nazis have already been mentioned somewhere.

 

[waggy]

In theory i agree with six. to bad in reality thats not how it works. PSU needs to be punished. Since it was the football program admins that did it the football program is going to get nailed (and rightfully so).

I do think its sad that innocent kids are going to be effected by this. I hope the NCAA takes every oppturnity to help them all.

BUT PSU NEEDS to be punished. the institution covered this up for years witch allowed more kids to be raped and molested.

 

[sixone]

so you defend the institutional culture that protected the rapist, absolving them of punishment; yet in the same breath you argue that the NCAA should punish itself for this mess, as an equally culpable player as the few PSU individuals involved?


This is exactly what you are saying, and you know it.

what a crazy mess resides inside your noggin.

The "institutional culture" didn't create itself, via some kind of big bang. It was created by the very individuals that most need to be punished. The NCAA has NO power over those individuals.

Instead, the NCAA is going to come in after the fact, and punish those who haven't been fired or shown to have done a single thing wrong. What kind of culture follows that kind of nonsense?

 

[Capt Caveman]

They represented the institution, directed it, and manipulated it. And now they're gone. They aren't part of the institution anymore, so how are future sanctions against the institution going to be useful?

Do you think those people give a rat's ass what happens to PSU, now? If they ever cared, they would have protected their precious institution by giving Sandusky the boot years ago.

If firing them and subjecting them to criminal and civil penalties isn't deterrent enough, there's nothing the NCAA can do to them, at this point.

The only people that the NCAA has power over are the people who are still with the institution.

Stop trolling, you can't be this ignorant.

If you're not trolling then based on how clueless you are and don't get it, I'm thinking the punishment needs to be more harsh. Disband the football program forever. Allow any current players to transfer without penalty.

 

[preslove]

The NCAA can't punish the guilty parties in any meaningful way. They can only punish the innocents, and that's not fair or reasonable.

Were you defending Ohio St. when the NCAA punished the "innocents" instead of Jim Tressel? Do you think that the NCAA should never punish an institution after they've fired the coaches involved in covering up player payments? If not, then you're not making a coherent argument.

Your clumsy attempt to defend the enablers of a child rapist is an argument for the NCAA never punishing member schools. Ever.

Again, I'm amazed by your stupidity.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

It makes no sense to punsih an orgnization of people who weren't involved with the crimes that occurred. But that's all the NCAA is set up to do.

That's all the NCAA can do. The NCAA is not the law. It can only offer its member schools benefits in exchange for agreeing to certain rules. The member schools agree to be punished for violating the NCAA's rules. The schools are held responsible by the NCAA for the actions of their individuals inasmuch as those individuals must follow NCAA rules.

NCAA rules prohibit individuals directly associated with athletics from raping children. They also prohibit covering up child rape. PSU the school failed to control Sandusky in their facilities and failed to control JoePa's and other's failure to report sex crimes. That is why PSU the school is being held accountable by the NCAA. (It's also why the school will be held accountable in civil court, but not in criminal court.)

Ultimately the most important point is that membership is optional.

 

[Miramonti]

In theory i agree with six. to bad in reality thats not how it works. PSU needs to be punished. Since it was the football program admins that did it the football program is going to get nailed (and rightfully so).

I do think its sad that innocent kids are going to be effected by this. I hope the NCAA takes every oppturnity to help them all.

BUT PSU NEEDS to be punished. the institution covered this up for years witch allowed more kids to be raped and molested.

It's not how life works. It also isn't how change gets made or how future would-be perpetrators are discouraged from handling potential damaging information the same way. And it's certainly not how a school's membership in the ncaa works.

 

[sixone]

That's all the NCAA can do. The NCAA is not the law. It can only offer its member schools benefits in exchange for agreeing to certain rules. The member schools agree to be punished for violating the NCAA's rules. The schools are held responsible by the NCAA for the actions of their individuals inasmuch as those individuals must follow NCAA rules.

NCAA rules prohibit individuals directly associated with athletics from raping children. They also prohibit covering up child rape. PSU the school failed to control Sandusky in their facilities and failed to control JoePa's and other's failure to report sex crimes. That is why PSU the school is being held accountable by the NCAA. (It's also why the school will be held accountable in civil court, but not in criminal court.)

Ultimately the most important point is that membership is optional.

NCAA rules obviously DIDN'T prohibit child rape, or covering it up. In ten+ years, they didn't stop any of this from happening.

They should be held to the same standard as PSU, and punished accordingly.

 

[sixone]

Were you defending Ohio St. when the NCAA punished the "innocents" instead of Jim Tressel? Do you think that the NCAA should never punish an institution after they've fired the coaches involved in covering up player payments? If not, then you're not making a coherent argument.

Your clumsy attempt to defend the enablers of a child rapist is an argument for the NCAA never punishing member schools. Ever.

Again, I'm amazed by your stupidity.

Are you changing the subject because you have no argument for the one we're already discussing?

 

[preslove]

That's all the NCAA can do. The NCAA is not the law. It can only offer its member schools benefits in exchange for agreeing to certain rules. The member schools agree to be punished for violating the NCAA's rules. The schools are held responsible by the NCAA for the actions of their individuals inasmuch as those individuals must follow NCAA rules.

NCAA rules prohibit individuals directly associated with athletics from raping children. They also prohibit covering up child rape. PSU the school failed to control Sandusky in their facilities and failed to control JoePa's and other's failure to report sex crimes. That is why PSU the school is being held accountable by the NCAA. (It's also why the school will be held accountable in civil court, but not in criminal court.)

Ultimately the most important point is that membership is optional.

/thread

 

[Atomic Playboy]

That's all the NCAA can do. The NCAA is not the law. It can only offer its member schools benefits in exchange for agreeing to certain rules. The member schools agree to be punished for violating the NCAA's rules. The schools are held responsible by the NCAA for the actions of their individuals inasmuch as those individuals must follow NCAA rules.

Yes, and that's my biggest issue with the NCAA. Whenever people break the rules, the organization takes steps to get rid of them, but the NCAA sanctions still hit the institution and not the people who actually broke the rules. It happened with Carroll and Bush at USC; they break the rules, they move on the more lucrative pastures in the NFL and the school gets fucked. It happened with Tressell at OSU; he breaks the rules, he gets fined by OSU, he moves on to the NFL (where the Colts had the good sense to suspend him for his involvement in the scandal), the school gets fucked. It happened with SMU, where the players and coaches involved all jumped ship before the death penalty killed the football program at the school for decades and the Southwest Conference they were part of. Now it will happen with PSU; everyone involved with the scandal is gone, in jail or dead, but the school is still fucked. It's a reactionary way of doling out punishment, but punishment isn't effective if it doesn't actually punish the individuals who made the poor choices in the first place.

 

[preslove]

Are you changing the subject because you have no argument for the one we're already discussing?

No, you fucking idiot, I was showing how your argument is incoherent. You are just too stupid to realize it.

Here is another way of putting it:

That's all the NCAA can do. The NCAA is not the law. It can only offer its member schools benefits in exchange for agreeing to certain rules. The member schools agree to be punished for violating the NCAA's rules. The schools are held responsible by the NCAA for the actions of their individuals inasmuch as those individuals must follow NCAA rules.

NCAA rules prohibit individuals directly associated with athletics from raping children. They also prohibit covering up child rape. PSU the school failed to control Sandusky in their facilities and failed to control JoePa's and other's failure to report sex crimes. That is why PSU the school is being held accountable by the NCAA. (It's also why the school will be held accountable in civil court, but not in criminal court.)

Ultimately the most important point is that membership is optional.

 

[sixone]

Yes, and that's my biggest issue with the NCAA. Whenever people break the rules, the organization takes steps to get rid of them, but the NCAA sanctions still hit the institution and not the people who actually broke the rules. It happened with Carroll and Bush at USC; they break the rules, they move on the more lucrative pastures in the NFL and the school gets fucked. It happened with Tressell at OSU; he breaks the rules, he gets fined by OSU, he moves on to the NFL (where the Colts had the good sense to suspend him for his involvement in the scandal), the school gets fucked. It happened with SMU, where the players and coaches involved all jumped ship before the death penalty killed the football program at the school for decades and the Southwest Conference they were part of. Now it will happen with PSU; everyone involved with the scandal is gone, in jail or dead, but the school is still fucked. It's a reactionary way of doling out punishment, but punishment isn't effective if it doesn't actually punish the individuals who made the poor choices in the first place.

Well said. :thumbsup:

 

[Miramonti]

It will be interesting to see if Penn State self-sanctions itself before the ncaa sanctions it, which is not uncommon for schools to do. This is certainly not a typical situation tho.