Penryn only 0-10% over Conroe?

[kknd1967]

no gaming setting
limited number of benchmarks
189w-170w = 12.6w?

this preview is a not good enough, compared to existing HKEPC review

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.

Yeah, because 65nm will surely run cooler than 45nm! :laugh:

IMHO Penryn isn't going to be huge. It'll be like Yonah -> Merom. Nehalem looks tasty though.

If you read the AT article, Penryn is barely any more efficient than the current C2Q processors.

Barcelona will be more efficient. I would bet money on it.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.

Err... 45nm vs 65nm?

I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

AMD has awesome power efficiency; they always have. The manufacturing technology only helps to a degree. Barcelona *will* be more efficient than anything intel will have.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.

Err... 45nm vs 65nm?

I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

AMD has awesome power efficiency; they always have. The manufacturing technology only helps to a degree. Barcelona *will* be more efficient than anything intel will have.

Firstly Penryn will introduce what is known as Deep Power Down Technology where it has the ability to shut down almost everything at idle. Thats just a small description of what that technology does. You can check out what it does more indepth in one of ATs article.

Secondly from hkepc

Idle (EIST Disable)
Intel Core 2 Duo E6550

Power - 61W
Temp - 41C

Intel Wolfdate 2.33GHz ES

Power - 43W
Temp - 31C

Max Power Loading Tools for Vista
Intel Core 2 Duo E6550

Power - 83W
Temp - 49C

Intel Wolfdate 2.33GHz ES

Power - 59W
Temp - 37C

You see the difference in temps? We dont even know how well barcelona or more precisely the phenom will perform. Saying "Cool n Quiet" makes AMD more efficient is just a way too broad of a statement.

Plus silence has nothing to do with efficiency. Silence has everything to do with the cooler being used. The manufacturering process, technology and "know hows" helps to a LARGE degree. Intel has a huge advantage in terms of having to produce CPUs from 45nm high k process already and from the looks of it will benefit intel for the time to come. (in terms of power consumption etc etc)

The difference between the conroe and the AMD X2 is already large at best at ALL fields of benchmarks. Now penryn increases this by 1~10%. Heck AMD will have to produce quite a performer to compete well when intel is having no issues with yield OR clock speed issues.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.

Err... 45nm vs 65nm?

I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

AMD has awesome power efficiency; they always have. The manufacturing technology only helps to a degree. Barcelona *will* be more efficient than anything intel will have.

EIST?

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

Any CPU can run silent when doing nothing, what about when they actually work? My E6600 overclocked to 3.2GHz can run dual Prime95 with a fanless Scythe Ninja without throttling.

 

[lopri]

Umm.. dunno. It seems like a hell lot better achievement than AMD's Clawhammer (130nm) -> San Diego (90nm). Of course it's all about manufacturing - I mean it in a slightly different sense from 'technology'. Anyone (well, OK maybe not anyone ) can draw a dream CPU on a paper, but whether or not capable of manufacturing it is something entirely different. I am very impressed by the improvement - more than anything on the L2. Intel not only packs more L2 cache on Penryn, but also they managed to make it even denser. One of the AMD's weak points is that their cache performance is horrible (which of course made up for by on-die memory controller, to some extent).

I mean, if AMD can manufacture their L1/L2 cache as fast/dense as that of Intel's, the competition between A64 and Conroe wouldn't be like this today. And with Penryn, we'll see even higher clock frequencies as well as lower power consumption. It looks like Intel's on the rock these days.

 

[Regs]

Wasn't "barc" suppose to be out this month?

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: Regs
Wasn't "barc" suppose to be out this month?

Barcelona was supposed to be Mid 2007, but has been pushed out to Q3 2007.

 

[HopJokey]

One thing people are overlooking is that in the preview, Anand was able to push the A0 chip to 3.22Ghz on 1.15v!

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: HopJokey
One thing people are overlooking is that in the preview, Anand was able to push the A0 chip to 3.22Ghz on 1.15v!

Dont forget, however, that they wont tolerate "conroe like" voltages either.

The ceiling for safe voltage will be around 1.3v

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.

Err... 45nm vs 65nm?

I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

AMD has awesome power efficiency; they always have. The manufacturing technology only helps to a degree. Barcelona *will* be more efficient than anything intel will have.

Isn't this the same company that released the FX-7x series of chips?

 

[Nemesis 1]

I found this interesting . XS has a fairly good discussion on but the nay sayers are coming out of the wood work.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=41858

I am very excited about this. So I did a thread search . This is what I came up with . Although turtle 1 can't tell when we will see this . It would seem that with todays news on the above link he is pretty close to having the facts straight.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...tor+processing+nehalem

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.

Err... 45nm vs 65nm?

I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

AMD has awesome power efficiency; they always have. The manufacturing technology only helps to a degree. Barcelona *will* be more efficient than anything intel will have.

Since when did processors make noise? And if you're talking about fans, then what's stopping an Intel user from buying the same HSF?

 

[HopJokey]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.

Err... 45nm vs 65nm?

I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

AMD has awesome power efficiency; they always have. The manufacturing technology only helps to a degree. Barcelona *will* be more efficient than anything intel will have.

Since when did processors make noise? And if you're talking about fans, then what's stopping an Intel user from buying the same HSF?

Hey, electrons make noise too!

 

[HopJokey]

Double Post

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: HopJokey

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.

Err... 45nm vs 65nm?

I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

AMD has awesome power efficiency; they always have. The manufacturing technology only helps to a degree. Barcelona *will* be more efficient than anything intel will have.

Since when did processors make noise? And if you're talking about fans, then what's stopping an Intel user from buying the same HSF?

Hey, electrons make noise too!

True, I heard my processor go "ZZZZAP!!!" once. That wasn't very fun.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
According to Fudzilla, Barcelona will have a golden opportunity seeing as Penryn is slower than expected.

I really do expect Barcelona to be much better than people are saying.

I don't for one reason.

They have not released any performance numbers that show what it can do.

That, and that alone, tells me it is not up to what they wish it was.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: HopJokey
One thing people are overlooking is that in the preview, Anand was able to push the A0 chip to 3.22Ghz on 1.15v!

Dont forget, however, that they wont tolerate "conroe like" voltages either.

The ceiling for safe voltage will be around 1.3v

Doesn't matter about voltage. It's not like every C2D needs 1.5v to hit 3.6Ghz. I bet you'll see 1.3v giving overclocks similar to an E6600 at 1.45v will. (50%+)

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: HopJokey
One thing people are overlooking is that in the preview, Anand was able to push the A0 chip to 3.22Ghz on 1.15v!

Dont forget, however, that they wont tolerate "conroe like" voltages either.

The ceiling for safe voltage will be around 1.3v

Doesn't matter about voltage. It's not like every C2D needs 1.5v to hit 3.6Ghz. I bet you'll see 1.3v giving overclocks similar to an E6600 at 1.45v will. (50%+)

Yeah that will definately be the case, as with all of the die shrinks.

Some people forget though and crank a previous safe vcore through a die shrink.

Not pretty.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: kknd1967
no gaming setting
limited number of benchmarks
189w-170w = 12.6w?

this preview is a not good enough, compared to existing HKEPC review

hkpec was not allowed to do anything that they wanted in their review. AT actually got their own chip and did what they wanted with it, that's why it was only a 4.7 % increase instead of "10-20%". realistically, let's assume that something other than divx gets sse4 optimizations in the next year and allow penryn an 8% increase. that still isn't such a tremendous improvement that we should all immediately jump on the bandwagon. For me, 20 % would be worth buying an entirely new quad core rig and passing my e6750 system down to the wife. 8 % plus small heat reduction leaves the door open for phenom imho, not just for me but for a few others who remember the A64 launch. IIRC the e6750 is a few % better than the e6700, so penryn is still probably showing an overall decent improvement, it's just not as much as we had been led to believe.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: HopJokey
One thing people are overlooking is that in the preview, Anand was able to push the A0 chip to 3.22Ghz on 1.15v!

Dont forget, however, that they wont tolerate "conroe like" voltages either.

The ceiling for safe voltage will be around 1.3v

why would the safe voltage ceiling be so low?

 

[kknd1967]

I am not sure what do you mean by saying "hkpec was not allowed to do anything that they wanted in their review". If you read that review in Chinese, it is their ES chip and they can do any benchmark they want.

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: kknd1967
no gaming setting
limited number of benchmarks
189w-170w = 12.6w?

this preview is a not good enough, compared to existing HKEPC review

hkpec was not allowed to do anything that they wanted in their review. AT actually got their own chip and did what they wanted with it, that's why it was only a 4.7 % increase instead of "10-20%". realistically, let's assume that something other than divx gets sse4 optimizations in the next year and allow penryn an 8% increase. that still isn't such a tremendous improvement that we should all immediately jump on the bandwagon. For me, 20 % would be worth buying an entirely new quad core rig and passing my e6750 system down to the wife. 8 % plus small heat reduction leaves the door open for phenom imho, not just for me but for a few others who remember the A64 launch. IIRC the e6750 is a few % better than the e6700, so penryn is still probably showing an overall decent improvement, it's just not as much as we had been led to believe.

 

[bryanW1995]

yeah, well, it was in mandarin and I only speak gan

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: HopJokey
One thing people are overlooking is that in the preview, Anand was able to push the A0 chip to 3.22Ghz on 1.15v!

Dont forget, however, that they wont tolerate "conroe like" voltages either.

The ceiling for safe voltage will be around 1.3v

why would the safe voltage ceiling be so low?

Because the smaller you make the gates, the easier it is to slow roast them with voltage

They also require less voltage to run, so its a non issue as long as you know not to set it too high.