Look at the inherent beauty and glory of a mountain covered in trees on a cool fall morning-- God is artistic and real. Everything in his creation attests to his glory.
Really?
If we assume what the bible says-- the existence of God and the bible-- a book from him about himself and his character, then there is plenty rational basis for morality.
His character is good, and we live to reflect it to others that they know his goodness as well. According to the bible, this matters because we matter, because we are "made in his likeness"-- made in his image-- we are creative, complex beings; the pinnacle of creation. Common sense tells you this, that we are of more worth than the animals. This is why it matters that we do not murder eachvother. In atheism, we do not matter. Not in the least. No more than an ant. Not at all.
"For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse."--that's from Romans 1
Look at the inherent beauty and glory of a mountain covered in trees on a cool fall morning-- God is artistic and real. Everything in his creation attests to his glory.
http://www.mlewallpapers.com/image.php/id/Orange-and-Yellow-Fall-Trees-444.jpg
So there's nothing wrong with raping someone?
The book was written by men and changed repeatedly and has many different interpretations. It no more qualified to dictate morality than the torah, koran or the bill of rights. There are many things in the bible that modern Christians simply ignore as it would fit in modern society.
Don't forget that other religions claim moral superiority as well and say their holy book is the divine one, so I guess they are all correct according to your logic?
His character is good, yet in the old testament he is a crazy genocidal lunatic, new testament he is modernized and made nicer and over the centuries the bible was update to change it as society changed. This was all done by people, nothing divine about it.
As far as humans being worth nothing to atheist that's a load of crap. I suppose Christians are all child molesters? You say stuff like this, and wonder why we get insulting.
You know what, after looking at the incredible beauty of that wallpaper I have to admit you are right. God is real. From now on I will worship Marduk as it is clear Marduk is the one true god.
Seriously, you do realize you can find quotes like that from just about any holy book? In what way is that proof? Not to mention mountains, forests, flowers etc are all very pretty but in no way proof of a god, let alone *your* god! If there is a creator it could be from any of the religions or something we don't even know about.
What does that picture have to do with God?
Looks like Satan Claws work to me .
What does that picture have to do with God?
Looks like Satan Claws work to me .
How many times do I have to say it . GOD killed in the Bible . GOD has that authority . But religios men . So called Holy men saying god told them to kill is a Sin against the True GOD. From what I have seen there are a least 3 false gods in the Bible and many lieing holy men . The one that is relavent to us is PAUL!
That's awfully convenient.
Would you agree that the poor child's plight was God's will?
If not, do you agree that Satan's will can and does overcome God's will?
If not that, then how can you simultaneously believe that God is omnipotent and yet things happen in contravention to his will?
Is your IQ describable with double digits?
God gave Man 2 great wonderful gifts that we all share equally in . THe breath of Life his breath . The spitit of GOD. and free choice . What you see in your pic is Man not tapping into that spirit our spitit. and Choice . This is mans doing .
You really are a model Christian. Do you think anybody reads your posts and comes away with a positive feeling about your religion?
God gave Man 2 great wonderful gifts that we all share equally in . THe breath of Life his breath . The spitit of GOD. and free choice . What you see in your pic is Man not tapping into that spirit our spitit. and Choice . This is mans doing .
That child chose out of free will not to tap into the spirit and to starve to death?
That child chose out of free will not to tap into the spirit and to starve to death?
God made everything, including Satan..did he not?
What Nemesis is saying there is that God didn't starve the child, humankind did. That we, all our humanity, made our choice and the child starved.
I like the idea that God would feed starving children if only they'd have the common sense not to grow up with the religion with which their family indoctrinated them.
Dummies. Be a Christian, get a cookie! Why wouldn't you??
I was really just riffing off of what Sclamoz said in response to Nemesis1.Eh? Did I miss something that Nemesis said? His incoherent ramblings make my eyes bleed, so I tend to just skim his posts.
Yes, I realize that. It was more a commentary on what appeared to be Nemesis1's suggestion that the child's plight was a consequence of his free decision to reject Nemesis1's particular religious dogma, and implicitly then that everyone who accepts his religious dogma has plentiful food rations.Anyway, while I would never agree with the argument that God would punish a child for not being born of a particular faith, it would be a mistake to assume the child was not born Christian, as there are millions of Christians in Africa.
I can respect that idea at least, but I think you give Nemesis1 entirely too much credit if you think his thoughts go that deep.
That's not to mention the inherent problems between what you suggest and the tenets of evangelical Chrisitanity -- but I don't expect you to defend that.
Okay, agreed.. Anyway, back on subject... I think it is mistake to assume that the presence of evil in the world is an argument against the existence of God. That's because evil cannot help but serve a purpose for good. For example, in this case, the child starves, but that picture emboldens people to do more to stop hunger. It's the law of unintended consequences. No matter what evil occurs, some good will come of it, and no matter what good occurs, some evil will come of it. The greatest example of this is WWII, arguably the most evil event in the history of humankind, yet more good has come of it than practically any other event in history as well. So to say that God must not exist because evil exists is IMO being obtuse.
What Nemesis is saying there is that God didn't starve the child, humankind did. That we, all our humanity, made our choice and the child starved.
I think it is an effective argument against certain concepts of God which describe God as simultaneously omnipotent and unwilling of the "evil" phenomena that exist. This is for ordinary, classical ideas about good and evil.Okay, agreed.. Anyway, back on subject... I think it is mistake to assume that the presence of evil in the world is an argument against the existence of God.
It is a feature of my worldview that basically speaking evil does not exist. It is handy to use it as a term when discussing things with others that are still focused on it, however.That's because evil cannot help but serve a purpose for good. For example, in this case, the child starves, but that picture emboldens people to do more to stop hunger.
You should keep in mind that most of time, and in my case at least, I'm rarely talking about "GOD" in general, but rather talking about "your concept of God" -- "your" not referring to you, Vic, in particular. I think most people have some very wrong ideas about god, so when I tell someone God doesn't exist, I'm saying "your god-concept is not instantiated in reality." This is why I primarily argue as an atheist, because to most theists, and with regard to their god-concepts, I am one.It's the law of unintended consequences. No matter what evil occurs, some good will come of it, and no matter what good occurs, some evil will come of it. The greatest example of this is WWII, arguably the most evil event in the history of humankind, yet more good has come of it than practically any other event in history as well. So to say that God must not exist because evil exists is IMO being obtuse.
You should keep in mind that most of time, and in my case at least, I'm rarely talking about "GOD" in general, but rather talking about "your concept of God" -- "your" not referring to you, Vic, in particular. I think most people have some very wrong ideas about god, so when I tell someone God doesn't exist, I'm saying "your god-concept is not instantiated in reality." This is why I primarily argue as an atheist, because to most theists, and with regard to their god-concepts, I am one.
No one made that argument, the picture was posted in response to someone saying everything in creation is a testament to god's glory.
A child starving to death or ww2 is instead called the work of satan or of man, where as a beautiful mountain is proof of god somehow.
Out of curiosity, where in the bible can I read on Christianity's take on free will? I always thought it was more of an idea that god gave us each free will to act as individuals but apparently I'm wrong.