People grow up and stop believing in Santa Claus

[Jeff7]

Because it's consistent with itself _and_ it provides a reason to exist, move, breathe, not murder each other, live, love; and provides so much more context to the beauty we see in the world.

Your assumption is consistent with itself and _that's it_. Your assumption does not explain why we choose morality in our culture, why we matter, why the world is beautiful, or why it matters if we live or die.

Re-read the bit on the Invisible Pink Unicorn.
It's also logically consistent with itself.

Second, fine, it provides reason, etc. But it is also based on your opening statement: Assume that the Bible is correct and all that jazz. You can assume anything you want, and base a huge system off of it. That's just great, except for the fact that your foundation was pulled out of some guy's ass many thousands of years ago, and embellished year after year after year; then it evolved into a mental virus (religion: the ultimate meme?) that just won't go away.


Edit: And heck, the whole Santa Claus story is consistent with itself and it provides motivation to be "good," as all-encompassing and vague as that term is. Thus I'd expect Santa Claus to be seen as being just as "valid" as Jesus/God.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Very good Jeff LOL

 

[El Guaraguao]

Eh? Did I miss something that Nemesis said? His incoherent ramblings make my eyes bleed, so I tend to just skim his posts.

Anyway, while I would never agree with the argument that God would punish a child for not being born of a particular faith, it would be a mistake to assume the child was not born Christian, as there are millions of Christians in Africa.

Unfortunetly, I think you have to accept the fact that your god WILL punish not only a child, but anyone being born of a different faith. That goes for any man. Lets say a 10 year old muslim kid gets killed [Insert way of death]. Assuming that your god is the real deal, do you really think this kid is going to enter gods kingdom to spend the rest of his "afterlife" praising god 24/7? probably not, you know where hes going. You can almost smell where hes going

 

[fskimospy]

You must prove the evolutionary need for this first, before you can assume that is why we conduct ourselves the way we do.
The "evolutionary need" you say is so that the society can continue to exist.
You incorrectly assume society continuing to exist matters-- it does not.
There is no need for society to continue existing-- it makes no difference to the members of society whether or not we exist or not, or whether our lives are simple and easy, or harsh because we all decide to steal from and murder each other on a whim. The end result is the same either way-- we all end up dead.

That's absolutely ridiculous. Your arguments are becoming more and more asinine as this goes on. Of course it matters to the members of society that society keeps on existing. It brings them pleasure and satisfaction for it to do so. Who cares if we're all dead someday? Our bodies are obviously hard wired to avoid death if at all possible, and to pursue actions which give us pleasure. That's all the reason you need to perpetuate society, it makes us happier than if we didn't. Whimsical murder and theft do not make us as a whole happier, therefore we have morality to discourage them.

This is the sort of argument people make in 8th grade against atheism. For the third time, less talking, more listening. You're not doing a very good job so far.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

You must prove the evolutionary need for this first, before you can assume that is why we conduct ourselves the way we do.
The "evolutionary need" you say is so that the society can continue to exist.
You incorrectly assume society continuing to exist matters-- it does not.
There is no need for society to continue existing-- it makes no difference to the members of society whether or not we exist or not, or whether our lives are simple and easy, or harsh because we all decide to steal from and murder each other on a whim. The end result is the same either way-- we all end up dead.

This post is full of so much fail it hardly even rises to the level of wrong.

None of the things you demand are actual prerequisites of evolutionary theory, nor does your alleged "explanation" actually explain anything meaninfully the way evolution does.

Evolution explains why things are the way that they are and not different. "God made things this way" does not do that unless you can supply a rigorous and testable model for God's decision-making process.

For example, people who tend to behave in concert with their peers tend to survive and reproduce better than those that do not. The natural consequence of this fact is the proliferation of coincidental moral beliefs and the negative selection of dissident moral beliefs. Guess what we observe?

Now, can you think of a circumstance which "God made it that way" does not "explain" the way you think "God made it that way" explains the phenomena we actually observe?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Unfortunetly, I think you have to accept the fact that your god WILL punish not only a child, but anyone being born of a different faith. That goes for any man. Lets say a 10 year old muslim kid gets killed [Insert way of death]. Assuming that your god is the real deal, do you really think this kid is going to enter gods kingdom to spend the rest of his "afterlife" praising god 24/7? probably not, you know where hes going. You can almost smell where hes going

Baptism takes more than One form . Water/Faith/ Fire

I could tell you a thing . But I can't because the decievers are cluesless and I will not tell them But your 24/7 thing You lack understanding .

 

[yllus]

You must prove the evolutionary need for this first, before you can assume that is why we conduct ourselves the way we do.
The "evolutionary need" you say is so that the society can continue to exist.

You incorrectly assume society continuing to exist matters-- it does not.

There is no need for society to continue existing-- it makes no difference to the members of society whether or not we exist or not, or whether our lives are simple and easy, or harsh because we all decide to steal from and murder each other on a whim. The end result is the same either way-- we all end up dead.

There's a strong, demonstrated evolutionary need for morality and society. The incentive to form societies comes from the greater chance of survival each individual gains from the pooling of intelligence and labour. The incentive for morality is that once you are in that society, a set of common sense rules are required to allow those individuals to live harmoniously with each other (and keep contributing to the pool).

Religion has never been necessary for humanity to thrive, much less the relatively young belief of Christianity. Sometimes it's helped society, sometimes it has hurt it, but it's never actually been necessary.

 

[Sclamoz]

Were has anyone said free will is for christians only .

When God created ADAM and Lilith . He made them the same . One male one female. But they fought over a thing Adam said he was Greater than Lilith . Lilith did rebell against Adam . She did use that great and powerful name and was taken up to heaven were God did here her complaint. God agreed and Lilith was allowed to stay . God out of love did approah adam and took from adam a rib, and created eve. But that imperfection did raise its ugly head and that is why man is on the 6,000 year road to enlightment . The book of revelations talks of that great wedding feast that is yet to come.

Adam was promised to be transtated into eden . in 5000 years or 5 days

No where did anyone say free will is for christians only. I'm trying to understand the christian perception of it. For instance, from that one quote about adam and eve that would imply we don't have free will due to gods actions predetermining our future. Other examples would be that we are all born with original sin, we all need to conform to gods ideals and not sin to get into heaven, god coming to earth in Jesus, speaking w/ moses etc. All of these would preclude actual free will, as would the core beliefs of Christianity imo.

Which is why I really want to read in the bible where it actually explains how god gave us free will and how it fits into the Christian religion.

 

[Nemesis 1]

No where did anyone say free will is for christians only. I'm trying to understand the christian perception of it. For instance, from that one quote about adam and eve that would imply we don't have free will due to gods actions predetermining our future. Other examples would be that we are all born with original sin, we all need to conform to gods ideals and not sin to get into heaven, god coming to earth in Jesus, speaking w/ moses etc. All of these would preclude actual free will, as would the core beliefs of Christianity imo.

Which is why I really want to read in the bible where it actually explains how god gave us free will and how it fits into the Christian religion.

Ya I seen that free will thing but let it go /

God did not predeterm He created and he gave gifts. But at the same time God is omnipresent so even tho he gave gifts he knows how each and everone of us will make are choicies hence the Book of life that was written befor creation .

 

[totalnoob]

I seen that free will thing but let it go / God did not predeterm He created and he gave gifts. But at the same time God is omnipresent so even tho he gave gifts he knows how each and everone of us will make are choicies hence the Book of life that was written befor creation .

 

[Nemesis 1]

You were never on the debate team were you .

 

[datalink7]

You were never on the debate team were you .

You were never in an English class, were you?

 

[Sclamoz]

Ya I seen that free will thing but let it go /

God did not predeterm He created and he gave gifts. But at the same time God is omnipresent so even tho he gave gifts he knows how each and everone of us will make are choicies hence the Book of life that was written befor creation .

Hypothetically speaking of course:
1. God created everything included us.
2. God knows everything, including how our lives will turn out and who will make it to heaven.
3. Since god created existence and humans and he knew how we and everything would turn out at the time of creation there would be no way to change our destinies(remember the starving African child?).

http://www.abideinchrist.com/selah/aug4.html
“For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified” (Romans 8:29-30).

 

[Nemesis 1]

That Child is starving because we as a collective refuse to act in a humanitarian way .

I would much rather my tax dollars be spent on saving that child . But NO our government is bound to the military Corperate Beast and that beast has given its power to our government to Kill and destroy . Not saying other government aren't the same . But the US military industral complex is Massive in size and tiny in humanitarism(ian)

Yet many of us sit on the side lines cheerleading. Its is YOUR TAX dollar at work

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I predict 500+ posts here. Any other guesses?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Hypothetically speaking of course:
1. God created everything included us.
2. God knows everything, including how our lives will turn out and who will make it to heaven.
3. Since god created existence and humans and he knew how we and everything would turn out at the time of creation there would be no way to change our destinies(remember the starving African child?).

http://www.abideinchrist.com/selah/aug4.html
“For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified” (Romans 8:29-30).

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified” (Romans 8:29-30).[/QUOTE]
Paul was a liar a thief and gay and very learned as you can see in his writing . Those are fine words I wonder which apostle actually wrote them . It was not a roman. The clue is in the first born. Who was Abrahams first born . Paul claims to have been saved threw the Holy spitit . The living word says none can come to the father except threw HIM.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Now does that mean that unless you believe in Christ you cann't be saved.

Christ was the living word. He lived his life and spoke in ways that confounded many. But If you naturaully live as Christ commanded Loving your neighbor as yourself and don't kill Ect ectect . and do believe in God . You would be rejected . I don't know about that. But what I can tell you is . Find the unforgiveable sin know it and you will know PAUL. Paul gave power over us by government . Paul was a tool of ROME. Just as Constantine planed. Paul didn't even live durring the period its been claimed. ROME CONTROLED the west in all things.

 

[Zebo]

I predict 500+ posts here. Any other guesses?

I got 746 Bob.

 

[Zebo]

Christianity is so complicated. Can't we just drive a car load of explosives into a theater of infidels and get 72 virgins?

 

[Sclamoz]

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified” (Romans 8:29-30).
Paul was a liar a thief and gay and very learned as you can see in his writing . Those are fine words I wonder which apostle actually wrote them . It was not a roman. The clue is in the first born. Who was Abrahams first born . Paul claims to have been saved threw the Holy spitit . The living word says none can come to the father except threw HIM.

Bizarre.... but I still don't see how freewill can exist if the below is correct, you didn't really address it in any of your posts. I supplied the link and quotes from the bible as an example of predetermination not because I wanted to have a discussion on Paul or those sections of the bible.

1. God created everything included us.
2. God knows everything, including how our lives will turn out and who will make it to heaven.
3. Since god created existence and humans and he knew how we and everything would turn out at the time of creation there would be no way to change our destinies.

Christianity is so complicated. Can't we just drive a car load of explosives into a theater of infidels and get 72 virgins?

I'm sure you could find plenty of justification in the bible for that without turning to Islam.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Christianity is so complicated. Can't we just drive a car load of explosives into a theater of infidels and get 72 virgins?

You have no idea how very important your first sentance is.

Look at who the Living word choose as Apostles . Simple men . The fact some could write is very strange strange indeed. Mohammed couldn't write yet he wrote What . He to was saved by the Spirit . According to HIS testimony same as Paul both gave simiular discriptions of heaven , other than the the virgin part. I would say the same spirit visited them . It was not Gods . So your first sentance goes against what the living word intended. Living word came for the poor in spirit the down troden . . That goes against complicated. It is a contradiction

 

[Nemesis 1]

Bizarre.... but I still don't see how freewill can exist if the below is correct, you didn't really address it in any of your posts. I supplied the link and quotes from the bible as an example of predetermination not because I wanted to have a discussion on Paul or those sections of the bible.

1. God created everything included us.
2. God knows everything, including how our lives will turn out and who will make it to heaven.
3. Since god created existence and humans and he knew how we and everything would turn out at the time of creation there would be no way to change our destinies.


I'm sure you could find plenty of justification in the bible for that without turning to Islam.

I will not go into this . But there was a war in heaven . If your recall what I said about The meaning of Gods Name . I am that I am . That was intended to misdirect you. Now If God created everthing that means it Came from God . So far easy right . But if you take the misdirection play and use the correct translation . I will become what I become . Now contradiction is detroyed.

 

[Sclamoz]

I will not go into this . But there was a war in heaven . If your recall what I said about The meaning of Gods Name . I am that I am . That was intended to misdirect you. Now If God created everthing that means it Came from God . So far easy right . But if you take the misdirection play and use the correct translation . I will become what I become . Now contradiction is detroyed.

Riiiiiiiight. I'm guessing you're a J-Witness?

To simplify my point, what you will become is what god created with the foreknowledge of what you will become. Whether you are the ideal Christian, a mass murderer or a starving African infant you are as god made you. It's impossible for anything to happen outside of gods plan as everything was created by god with the foreknowledge of what was to come.

Your name is in the book of life during which was written before the foundation of the world, before adam and eve and original sin, which god not only knew about but willing allowed to happen according to the bible...As he is all knowing and all powerful humanity being sinners and cast out of eden must be the will of god and what he planned on, otherwise he isn't all powerful or all knowing.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Not a chance in hell . Listen to me here . The deceivers use distraction so as to push their agendas ahead , The JW Go door todoor preaching destruction and have since the beginning of their foundation . Now if memory serves me well here , I believe The word Jehovah was created in 1836 , now my memory doesn't serve me as well as it use to but I believe thats correct. This is what a lot of preachers do now days and in the past. Rarely talking about Christ good works and teachings . They used scare tatics . Many went to prison rather than fight in wars. A good thing But that to was a tool . These that went to prison I have no doubt are good and true. But I believe the Founders had a differant purpose and that was to distract. and using terror to build their following . Many good people I am sure are among their flock of sheep. But they need to teach the Gosphels and stay the hell out of revalations , Ya I know what some will say and think . Pot meet kettle . Where are their Good works, Today if you want to look at organized religion the Best I have seen is Salvation ARMY I kinda like this organization because of their good works,

But how can you put me with any christian organization when I trash PAUL the way I do. God will become what he becomes . I wasn't talking about man . That goes without saying in referance to man . But when you attach that to Gods name Everthing takes on new meaning and opens up understanding and destroys contradiction

 

[Nemesis 1]

I dida very fast check on the word Jehovah and got a date of 1270 I pretty sure my memory serves me better than that . So I gonna go check this out . Its all over the place as to when and were but the best I could find was the king james were it appearred a few times . Its has been 35 years since I looked , And I had no internet so I just don't know if my memory failed here or not