people who have vacationed to europe - first timer looking for some advice

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runzwithsizorz

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2002
3,500
14
76
Okay OP, first, aprox. how old are you two? Second, if you don't have the money don't go! Heck, a 1 weeks visit to New Orleans can cost 3 grand. A hostel, BNB, Motel 6 in Europe, seriously? Is that how your wife wants to travel? Also, NO! you really can't see two countries on one trip. BUT, I can help you see one country very well, (Spain), if you are interested?
 

yuchai

Senior member
Aug 24, 2004
980
2
76
As far as a resource to identify a good hotel, I've found tripadivsor.com to be very helpful. I think it has by far the most and highest quality reviews for hotels out there.

Flights - would definitely recommend flying in and out of different airports and just use the trains in between.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
13,619
2,188
126
zin pretty much summed it up; i also recommend planning far less exertion that you'd think acceptable, things in europe (with the heat, and queues, and traffic, and bullshit that doesnt work properly ..) always tend to become harder than you imagine.

just find one, or two places at most, to visit and try to settle in - find a nice place, hang out at local bars, try the local food (food really is the n1 reason to go to europe) .. and if you get the itch to go see something, go. do *not* plan over-exhausting tours which cram in as much shit as possible, they are counterproductive.

barcelona, i've been a couple times, it's nice but nothing special. i did like sagrada familia which, i hear, has been finally completed.

and hanging out in teh ramblas is fun, if you watch out for the shady characters. (they got some rather superb hash there, if you are into that kind of stuff)

but, it's not the most "friendly" place. i would much rather point you in the direction of paris.

now, paris, you could live there a year and not see everything. imho, i would dedicate the first 6-7 days of the trip to just settling in, tasting the amazing food, visiting places like the sacre coeur and montmartre, tasting some more amazing food, and possibly try to meet some expats - the formula for success.
yeah, you'd think wtfbbq, i dont want to go to paris and hang out with 'muricans, but expats know exactly what bits to show you so that you can see the real paris - or at least, that's the way to best enjoy rome, which is not that different of a city.

then do a few bus excurtions to the countryside. that shoudl give you a well rounded experience of paris.

mind the voleurs (pickpockets), they are not as common as they would make you believe, but if you look 'murican you run a much greater risk than someone who looks local. dont carry your passports with you. also, you ought to be able to use the local ATMs.



my idea is, that when you visit, you need to decide whether you want to be a tourist, or a friend. tourists see the sights, friends experience the city. imho, the latter trumps the former.
 

Crotulus

Senior member
Sep 2, 2008
218
168
116
Wife and I took a two week trip to Spain a number of years ago. We spent some time in Madrid, Cordoba, Seville and Granada. All of it was great.

Be sure to get tickets for a night visit to the Alhambra if you make it to Granada. The Alhambra at night is amazing. The best part is tickets are limited to a few hundred for the night rather than thousands for the day.
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,705
117
106
Definitely fly into France and fly out of Spain. Just two one way flights.

If you have an Amex Plat, their Fine Resorts and Hotels program will give you a 3rd night or 4th night free which is typically $400-600 a night savings if you're staying at a high end hotel.

I took a train from Paris to Madrid last time I was there. It was pretty quick. Unless you can find a super cheap flight.

Check out http://wikitravel.org/ I've been using that to learn more about the hot spots and central areas for places I haven't been. Definitely useful.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,833
8,302
136
Oh and don't be a loud, obnoxious American. That will get you nowhere with the people.
A guy I talked to the other day (a guy from Texas in his 20's, said he'd been to UK, Spain, France, Italy, Turkey, Greece, some other European countries) talking about the French said "they hate us!" I asked about that. I think if you show some interest in speaking French, learning some key words, terms, expressions, they will warm to you. Haven't been, but I do have an interest in learning French, and if I find myself going to France, I'll be sure to bring that along.

Cool thread, bookmarked!
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
A guy I talked to the other day (a guy from Texas in his 20's) talking about the French said "they hate us!" I asked about that. I think if you show some interest in speaking French, learning some key words, terms, expressions, they will warm to you. Haven't been, but I do have an interest in learning French, and if I find myself going to France, I'll be sure to bring that along.

About this:

France is a gorgeous, lovely place. Ruined only by the French. That is to say...the Parisians.

What you say about France and French people in general is true, but not so of Parisians. Attempting to engage them in their language without anything less than expertise in conversation and especially pronunciation of there imminently perfect language will more often than not result in derision. I find that in Paris, it's best to just come out and speak loud and obnoxiously with one's thick American accent (at least they hate the British more) because they are just going to treat you that way, anyway.

Outside of Paris, the opposite is true. Very lovely people.
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,854
154
106
I've never actually been to Spain, but I've heard great things about Barcelona and those southern areas. I doubt this has changed much, but Barcelona is supposedly super thievy. It generally isn't a problem for most people, but you should always be rather vigilant. Space is generally smaller in these areas and in the middle of tourist season, you really have to watch out for gypsies. Living in Florence for ~5 months, I never had a problem, but the first day my mom came to visit, I had been so used to the general flow of things that I briefly failed to notice a couple of shitheads sidling up to us as we were planning what to do during the next couple of rainy hours. I also failed to check her planned gear, which included a tiny knit purse with a button flap, so always completely open. We got back to her hotel about 1 hour later, discovered that her brand new passport, debit card, credit cards, and $300 cash (collected by her Sunday School class as a gift for her travel) was gone. This was Christmas time, so not touristy at all. Lesson to be learned is that you should always maintain a general vigilance to the people around you, even when you know the usual tactics and are comfortable with them. ...and doesn't take a crowd or the proper season to be a victim.

This is so true when vacationing in Europe. Most major cities are full of gypsy pickpocketers. You will get some old lady to appproach you and distract you with some goods she is selling while someone lifts your wallet. Dont let anyone put anything on your wrist e.g. bracelets. Dont give some stranger a light for a smoke if they ask for it. Its all a diversion. Dont even trust the children. They are the worst and fool you with their inocence. Keep your eyes peeled in a subway or other public trasportation where personal space is limited. Dont put important items in your backpockets and develop a habit of checking your bag zippers and pockets often. Learn what Europeans gypsies look like and you will begin to spot them
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
This is so true when vacationing in Europe. Most major cities are full of gypsy pickpocketers. You will get some old lady to appproach you and distract you with some goods she is selling while someone lifts your wallet. Dont let anyone put anything on your wrist e.g. bracelets. Dont give some stranger a light for a smoke if they ask for it. Its all a diversion. Dont even trust the children. They are the worst and fool you with their inocence. Keep your eyes peeled in a subway or other public trasportation where personal space is limited. Dont put important items in your backpockets and develop a habit of checking your bag zippers and pockets often. Learn what Europeans gypsies look like and you will begin to spot them

The old/young lady with the baby in her hands is also very common. Shove the baby into your chest while her other hand (or other kids) rifle through your pockets.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,211
3,622
126
I think if you show some interest in speaking French, learning some key words, terms, expressions, they will warm to you.
Two things.

1) If someone came up to you speaking Mandarin, would you treat them the same as if they spoke your native language? Probably not. For some here in the US if someone came right up speaking Mexican that would even generate intense dislike.

Just going up to a person in France speaking English is not the way to get them to really be thrilled to work with you.

2) Remember that workers in France (especially in Paris) are swamped. In the US you may get one waiter for 1 to 4 tables. In France you might get one waiter for 10 to 20 tables. We just shouldn't expect the same level of service. We think of this as being rude - that is just the way of life there. It is too costly to hire/fire so they have lower levels of staff all around.

So, go up to them, say good morning or good evening in terrible French with an American accent. They will be happy that you tried. Then be ready to just quickly get what you need from them and move on. Don't dally taking up their precious time. Then you'll find that they are very friendly and actually like Americans.

It isn't hatred, it is the fact that they have lots of other customers and you are trying small talk with the waiter asking how he likes the food, what to do in the town, and whether or not he can please make a special request to alter 57 parts of the menu item just to your liking.
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,705
117
106
About this:

France is a gorgeous, lovely place. Ruined only by the French. That is to say...the Parisians.

What you say about France and French people in general is true, but not so of Parisians. Attempting to engage them in their language without anything less than expertise in conversation and especially pronunciation of there imminently perfect language will more often than not result in derision. I find that in Paris, it's best to just come out and speak loud and obnoxiously with one's thick American accent (at least they hate the British more) because they are just going to treat you that way, anyway.

Outside of Paris, the opposite is true. Very lovely people.

Never been my experience in Paris and I've been there multiple times in the past few years for weeks on end. Everyone but this one lady at the airport was more than willing to conversate and help me in my broken French.
 

runzwithsizorz

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2002
3,500
14
76
Wife and I took a two week trip to Spain a number of years ago. We spent some time in Madrid, Cordoba, Seville and Granada. All of it was great.

Be sure to get tickets for a night visit to the Alhambra if you make it to Granada. The Alhambra at night is amazing. The best part is tickets are limited to a few hundred for the night rather than thousands for the day.
Treated ourselves to a 2 night stay at the Parador within the gates. IIRC, it only has about 25 rooms, King Ferdinand, and Queen Isabella were once buried in the lobby by the check in desk, the graves are roped off. Once they kick all the tourist out, and lock the gates for the night, pretty much sealing you in, you have the whole place to your self. Now that was surreal!
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,833
8,302
136
This is so true when vacationing in Europe. Most major cities are full of gypsy pickpocketers. You will get some old lady to appproach you and distract you with some goods she is selling while someone lifts your wallet. Dont let anyone put anything on your wrist e.g. bracelets. Dont give some stranger a light for a smoke if they ask for it. Its all a diversion. Dont even trust the children. They are the worst and fool you with their inocence. Keep your eyes peeled in a subway or other public trasportation where personal space is limited. Dont put important items in your backpockets and develop a habit of checking your bag zippers and pockets often. Learn what Europeans gypsies look like and you will begin to spot them
I haven't kept my wallet in my back pocket for years. Don't like sitting on it, and figure it's where a PP would target. AFAIK, I've never been PPed. I typically wear cargo pants and have my wallet in a lower front pocket. Gauging from comments here I think I'll give a lot of thought to protecting myself from thieves when traveling, which I plan to do (have my passport application at hand now!). I already noted the admonition here to not carry your passport on your person unless necessary.

This is my travel backpack: Timbuk2 Spire Backpack . It has "roll top" for the major chamber but also a hook clip for it that I don't ordinarily use but would be useful for traveling when there's a danger of pick pockets. I saw a review mentioning that.

Youtube review of this backpack by guy who favors it for travel.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Never been my experience in Paris and I've been there multiple times in the past few years for weeks on end. Everyone but this one lady at the airport was more than willing to conversate and help me in my broken French.

Maybe I should have learned more than one phrase?

"Où est votre béret idiot, vous idiot Frenchie ! Mettez votre béret et me divertir !"

:\
 

runzwithsizorz

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2002
3,500
14
76
The old/young lady with the baby in her hands is also very common. Shove the baby into your chest while her other hand (or other kids) rifle through your pockets.
Had my wallet lifted in New Orleans late one night. Girl grabbed my nutz, and propositioned me. Should have known that was just a distraction. She managed to charge for over $200 in gas by morning when I called the bank. Guess that's why pumps now ask for a zip code now.
 
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AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,705
117
106
Had my wallet lifted in New Orleans late one night. Girl grabbed my nutz, and propositioned me. Should have known that was just a distraction. She managed to charge for over $200 in gas by morning when I called the bank. Guess that's why pumps now ask for a zip code now.

From my time in Rome, look them in the eye and they'll probably figure you're more trouble than you're worth. Might only work for guys though. The girl I was with got her camera stolen as she hopped on the metro.
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,854
154
106
I usually carry my passport when in a foriegn country. The only exception is if I stay at one of those resorts in the Carribean that are basically walled off compounds. You are on hotel property and the passport can stay in the room (in a safe). But when walking around in a city, I carry and its because it is the only document that proves who you are. I also carry the customs document (visa) that shows my legal entry into the country. I also keep my airline tickets, train tickets, mass transport passes and most of my cash in a safe spot on me.

I travel with a backpack AND one of these: https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/theft-scams/travel-moneybelt All my inportant stuff goes into here. I only keep pocket change or some small bills in my actual pocket. If I need to make a withdrawal from my money belt, I try to do it surreptitiously and out of view.

Keep in mind that US passports carry a substantial black market value.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
They make those in two versions. One is made with silk and the others I think are made with poison ivy, nettles, and maybe some ghost pepper flakes. If you go with a money belt (I do), do yourself a favor and get a silk one.

I'm familiar the latter type. I wore a money belt for maybe one day, then tossed the fucker into the Tiber (after retrieving my stash, of course).
 

Broheim

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2011
4,592
2
81
After spending three weeks in the UK in December 2014 I quickly realized I would spend three months and still not see everything of interest in just the UK.

"In Europe 100 miles is a long way, in America 100 years is a long time".
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,705
117
106
I usually carry my passport when in a foriegn country. The only exception is if I stay at one of those resorts in the Carribean that are basically walled off compounds. You are on hotel property and the passport can stay in the room (in a safe). But when walking around in a city, I carry and its because it is the only document that proves who you are. I also carry the customs document (visa) that shows my legal entry into the country. I also keep my airline tickets, train tickets, mass transport passes and most of my cash in a safe spot on me.

I travel with a backpack AND one of these: https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/theft-scams/travel-moneybelt All my inportant stuff goes into here. I only keep pocket change or some small bills in my actual pocket. If I need to make a withdrawal from my money belt, I try to do it surreptitiously and out of view.

Keep in mind that US passports carry a substantial black market value.

When I was studying in Rome, the school told us to make a photo copy of our passport and visa and keep that on us instead of actually bringing along our full passport.
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,854
154
106
When I was studying in Rome, the school told us to make a photo copy of our passport and visa and keep that on us instead of actually bringing along our full passport.

Thats a good idea too if you trust leaving it in your room. Email yourself a scan of the important pages that you can access online
 

dr150

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2003
6,571
24
81
OP,
-- Take the train. It connects everywhere. Then you can cab/uber/subway it to your hotel.

-- There's also ultra-cheap airlines like RyanAir and the like which may potentially be cheaper than a train. Use Kayak website to compare "all-in" costs.

-- Stay in hostels and you'll save loads of money and they're very clean. You only lay the bones there for 6 hrs. so no need to get all fancy and shit with a place you'll barely be there.

-- Watchout for professional pickpockets (they're everywhere!). We almost got robbed once in Ibiza. They come at you from one side to distract you with a stupid question then his partner comes from the blind side and takes your unattended pack if it's laying next to you on a bench.

-- At the hotel, don't leave bags on the floor. Always on a pedestal. Bedbugs can potentially get at you open luggage and ride back with you to the States causing a HUGE issue in your home. YES, bedbugs are everywhere, even in the US nowadays!

-- Get a Rick Steves book. He does a good way of laying out a multi-day plan in order of important sites to see. Fodors/Frommers also do similar things. Be prepared to check out opening/closing times on things as there's days that they close.

-- Get a SIM prepaid card for your phone at a tobacco shop. It'll save you money on calls.

-- Bring photocopies of your passport and scan it to the cloud for easy access. You lose your passport, and it makes it harder at the embassy. Always carry it with you in a hideable zip travel pouch on your person (hotels also have trusty safes in the room or at the lobby). The passport is your lifeline so carry it around like if it was a gold nugget. I carry a backpack with zippers to the bottom side and shoulder it to my rib side so nobody can mess with with it.

-- Bring some allergy, headache, stomach, diarrhea meds, etc. You can get hit hard with something and then your SOL. Going to a Pharmacy with their non-English and different "hit & miss" meds can be a pain, so be prepared to have med shit that you KNOW works for your system.

-- Get travel insurance for your valuables (i.e. camera, etc) and in case you get really sick over there or if you need to cancel/interrupt you trip for any reason. I've had to use this insurance in the past. Shit happens so be prepared. The $50-$200 insurance is worth the peace of mind!

-- If you're going out of urban centers, rent a car. It's cheap and lets you see the super beautiful countryside of the areas you're going to visit. It's much funner than taking a bus or train sometimes (which is a blur). Some of my best memories was with the rental for sure!

-- And above all.....DON'T be CHEAP!! Spend the money on good restaurants, etc. I regret being a little too cheap when I was younger even though I had the dough. Memories last forever and that extra $100 here or there will not be missed in the grand scheme of things. If you need to really budget or stretch your money, then I advise you save up some more until you can do a trip the proper way!
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,854
154
106
-- Stay in hostels and you'll save loads of money and they're very clean. You only lay the bones there for 6 hrs. so no need to get all fancy and shit with a place you'll barely be there.

Im not too sure about the hostels. I know many college students usually use them because they are dirt cheap. But that doesnt mean good hotels that are also cheap are not available. My fiance stayed in a hotel near the city center in Amsterdam for about $50 a night. Yes it had a tiny bathroom and the room was small, but she wasnt looking for 5 star acommodations either. You just sleep and shower in the hotel and spend the rest of your time outside. I wouldnt care if the room lacked a TV, coffee maker etc...

My beef with the hostels is the lack of privacy, noise, the communal shared sleeping/bathroom spaces and you have to lookout for your possessions. Id rather get a cheapo hotel room that is all mine.
 
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