people who have vacationed to europe - first timer looking for some advice

[Exterous]

Fly into one city and out of the other as that will save you on travel time. Most airlines will let you do a 'multi-city' flight on their website. Be careful about multi city flights or two one ways though. Often there can be a substantial price penalty for one ways or if the website decides that your 'open jaw' flight should be two one ways instead. For example we were looking at flights to Frankfurt and a RT ticket was $1400 while a one way was $1200.

You can play around with ITA matrix to see what works best for your city but I suspect it would be AA\Oneworld as they do pretty well on open jaw pricing and AA flights direct to CDG and MAD from the US and Iberia is a Oneworld partner. I believe Air France still flies direct to MAD but I don't think the frequency is there.

https://matrix.itasoftware.com

I'd skip the train. Its about 6.5 hours by high speed train between Barcelona and Paris. The flight should be under 2 hours so even considering getting to the airport early the flight still wins out on time.

If the weather is nice (sunny) I highly recommend going into Sainte-Chapelle. Absolutely gorgeous interior. Shameless plug

For hotels I'd figure out what you want to do and then pick a hotel convenient to those activities. The Paris metro makes things easy to get around so a hotel near a decent metro station would simplify things greatly.

Its been a long time since I've been to Barcelona but I do remember liking Seville and Grenada much more

About this:

France is a gorgeous, lovely place. Ruined only by the French. That is to say...the Parisians.

What you say about France and French people in general is true, but not so of Parisians. Attempting to engage them in their language without anything less than expertise in conversation and especially pronunciation of there imminently perfect language will more often than not result in derision. I find that in Paris, it's best to just come out and speak loud and obnoxiously with one's thick American accent (at least they hate the British more) because they are just going to treat you that way, anyway.

Outside of Paris, the opposite is true. Very lovely people.

We were there just last year and didn't encounter any rudeness at all. Perhaps you are just worth of derision

 

[Mai72]

A 12 day vacation to Europe is not even worth it. I'd go for at least a month. By the time you get there, you're going to have to spend a day recovering from jet lag. Then the last day is spent packing and hanging out waiting for the plane ride home.

So, that gives you 10 days to visit the famous sights that everyone and their mother has seen a billion times.

 

[zinfamous]

We were there just last year and didn't encounter any rudeness at all. Perhaps you are just worth of derision

Like I said:

Maybe I should have learned more than one phrase?

"Où est votre béret idiot, vous idiot Frenchie ! Mettez votre béret et me divertir !"
:\

 

[Kelvrick]

We were there just last year and didn't encounter any rudeness at all. Perhaps you are just worth of derision

I was there with my wife for 3 days in 2014 and pretty much everyone was polite to us. I had learned a few simple phrases in french and probably butchered it every time I tried. The worse experience was probably a train station worker who replied to my "je ne parle pas français" with but you are speaking french now (that was what I think he was saying). But then he laughed and then helped me in english.

But then, we're asian.

 

[Pantoot]

Had my wallet lifted in New Orleans late one night. Girl grabbed my nutz, and propositioned me. Should have known that was just a distraction. She managed to charge for over $200 in gas by morning when I called the bank. Guess that's why pumps now ask for a zip code now.

2 or 3 AM on La Rambla and it won't be one girl, it will be a group of 10.
Very distracting!

 

[AznAnarchy99]

A 12 day vacation to Europe is not even worth it. I'd go for at least a month. By the time you get there, you're going to have to spend a day recovering from jet lag. Then the last day is spent packing and hanging out waiting for the plane ride home.

So, that gives you 10 days to visit the famous sights that everyone and their mother has seen a billion times.

Eh flying from CA, I find the 8 hour jet lag to Europe not bad at all.

Now flying backwards in time 17 hours to Tokyo was horrible.

 

[dullard]

Eh flying from CA, I find the 8 hour jet lag to Europe not bad at all.

Now flying backwards in time 17 hours to Tokyo was horrible.

My informal poll seems to show night owls generally like to go West (stay up as late as you want and sleep in as late as you can) and morning people usually like to go East (you need to go to bed earlier than normal and wake up earlier). Is this true with you?

 

[michal1980]

some one mentioned it before, but I enjoyed traveling Germany with a rick steves book.

also used a lot of orbitz to find hotels. Haven't been to france / spain so cant comment. I think you have to figure out what you enjoy doing and planning around that, we didn't have a strong pull to stay in one place two long, and saw ~4 citites in about 10 days. I'd like to go back to see other places in Germany, but for us, we probably would go back to some. Too many new places to see.

 

[Muse]

*their

I noticed that too, but kept my gun in its holster.

 

[Crotulus]

Treated ourselves to a 2 night stay at the Parador within the gates. IIRC, it only has about 25 rooms, King Ferdinand, and Queen Isabella were once buried in the lobby by the check in desk, the graves are roped off. Once they kick all the tourist out, and lock the gates for the night, pretty much sealing you in, you have the whole place to your self. Now that was surreal!

That sounds pretty sweet. We'd love to go back at some point so that may be something to go for.

 

[Excelsior]

Seville has so far been my favorite place in Spain, and I've been to Barcelona twice. Definitely spend more than just 2 nights in each location. If you can, get out of the city sometimes to see the sites nearby. Seeing only cities can get old. Also, AirBNB is the business. I stayed at a nice room in Barcelona for $20 a night. The dollar is strong now vs the euro. Enjoy!

 

[purbeast0]

so i've been looking more at to booking our trip and had a question for those of you who have been to europe...

would 2 weeks be enough to fly into italy, head west, and then pass through paris and end up in spain, if we wanted to see most of the "must see things" in the countries? like if we wanted to see venice, rome, then check out paris and possibly nice, then check out barcelona and seville in spain? if we tried to lump all of that into 2 weeks, would be just be racing pretty much the entire time we're there, not able to really enjoy anything?

 

[AznAnarchy99]

so i've been looking more at to booking our trip and had a question for those of you who have been to europe...

would 2 weeks be enough to fly into italy, head west, and then pass through paris and end up in spain, if we wanted to see most of the "must see things" in the countries? like if we wanted to see venice, rome, then check out paris and possibly nice, then check out barcelona and seville in spain? if we tried to lump all of that into 2 weeks, would be just be racing pretty much the entire time we're there, not able to really enjoy anything?

Depends. Are you just there to see the touristy spots or are you there to take in the city?

You can hit up all the touristy spots in those cities in that time.

 

[feralkid]

well, that would definitely save you a lot of time/money then. That would certainly cut down the "things you must see" in Paris. One option would be to take 2 or 3 days out of Paris and set up in somewhere like Bordeaux. You could easily get to Normandy and back from there, and maybe spend a day doing a local wine tour--which was actually pretty cool. Bordeaux is kinda sleepy, though.

I assume you meant Bayeux?

Bordeaux is the other end of France.

 

[dullard]

so i've been looking more at to booking our trip and had a question for those of you who have been to europe...

would 2 weeks be enough to fly into italy, head west, and then pass through paris and end up in spain, if we wanted to see most of the "must see things" in the countries? like if we wanted to see venice, rome, then check out paris and possibly nice, then check out barcelona and seville in spain? if we tried to lump all of that into 2 weeks, would be just be racing pretty much the entire time we're there, not able to really enjoy anything?

I personally found nothing in Nice worth going back to. If you were going to do southern France, look into the Carcassonne to Avignon to Marseille area. The train from Nice to Dinge is good, but I wouldn't suggest that for a first Europe trip. Other than that Nice just isn't as good as the rest of France.

So, assuming you skip Nice, you are talking about 5 cities in ~14 days. Doable I suppose. Ideally I would aim for 2 days in Venice, 3 days in Rome, 5 days in Paris, 3 days in Barcelona, and that leaves just 1 day for Seville which is not quite enough. That means you are now cutting into the meat of a visit. Maybe cut Paris to 4 days or Venice to just 1 day. But then that means you'll be missing a good chunk of them.

Cutting one more city out would make it all doable with enough time to fully enjoy everything.

 

[Sheep]

I personally found nothing in Nice worth going back to. If you were going to do southern France, look into the Carcassonne to Avignon to Marseille area. The train from Nice to Dinge is good, but I wouldn't suggest that for a first Europe trip. Other than that Nice just isn't as good as the rest of France.

Agreed. I flew into Nice for a Southern France vacation a few years ago. Nice is a dump compared to nearby Villefranche-sur-Mer (where I was staying), Monaco, or Antibes (visited the latter two).

OP: If you look into dullard's great suggestions, I'd also recommend Collioure although that might be a little out of the way.

 

[zinfamous]

so i've been looking more at to booking our trip and had a question for those of you who have been to europe...

would 2 weeks be enough to fly into italy, head west, and then pass through paris and end up in spain, if we wanted to see most of the "must see things" in the countries? like if we wanted to see venice, rome, then check out paris and possibly nice, then check out barcelona and seville in spain? if we tried to lump all of that into 2 weeks, would be just be racing pretty much the entire time we're there, not able to really enjoy anything?

that sounds awful. especially Paris and Nice--Nice is basically Paris on the beach...a gross filthy beach town. But the rest of that area is nice: Cannes, Antibes, etc. Riviera is great if you have the time, but that is a lot to try and cram into 2 weeks.

Rome is seeing things like the Forum and the Vatican and the tomb of Julius II...basically all of the type of things that you claim to hate doing when you travel. So, there probably isn't much of a reason for you to visit Rome, because you can do food and Italy in other Italian places just as well. The only reason to go to Rome is history and art.

I assume you meant Bayeux?

Bordeaux is the other end of France.

Heh, yeah. I actually did mean Bordeaux, but forgot that our decision to go there was after deciding against Normandy...it is still stuck in my head that it is somewhere nearby. ...possibly also because of Bayeux, but I've never been there.

 

[purbeast0]

i definitely would like to see the colosseum in rome. in general i like roman history so i'd be cool with going to rome for sure.

good to know about nice. i just thought it looked nice in pics and so did my wife. it's not definite on the list by any means.

 

[zinfamous]

i definitely would like to see the colosseum in rome. in general i like roman history so i'd be cool with going to rome for sure.

good to know about nice. i just thought it looked nice in pics and so did my wife. it's not definite on the list by any means.

I also thought the same about Nice...until riding by. But Cannes/Monoco/Antibes in that area are nicer beach areas. Nice has little tiny pebbles instead of sand, though, if that sounds cool.

You could pretty easily spend a day between those towns just taking the train back and forth. They are pretty small altogether.

The ancient Rome stuff is pretty compact and you can see most of it one tiny area if that is your primary goal....but I still think trying to plan for 3 countries with such spread-out locations (Rome and Venice are not close to each other, for example) seems like you'd spend a bit more time traveling (flying, in airports, on trains) than exploring.

Or, you could try to do it the college backpack way, and take local overnight trains or fast trains between countries overnight and do your sleeping then--maximize sleep/travel efficiency, reduce hotel costs....but that sucks outside of your 20s.

 

[cubby1223]

so i've been looking more at to booking our trip and had a question for those of you who have been to europe...

would 2 weeks be enough to fly into italy, head west, and then pass through paris and end up in spain, if we wanted to see most of the "must see things" in the countries? like if we wanted to see venice, rome, then check out paris and possibly nice, then check out barcelona and seville in spain? if we tried to lump all of that into 2 weeks, would be just be racing pretty much the entire time we're there, not able to really enjoy anything?

Too much. You will spend too much time in-between traveling.

If you go the car rental route - first do what you can to avoid Italy. Insane to drive around, ticketing cameras everywhere, and most cities have various zones where you need certain stickers to be in, else a camera will catch you and you'll receive a ticket in the mail. Fortunately Italy doesn't have any authority to enforce any tickets sent to you in the U.S., which is fine as long as you don't plan on revisiting Italy any time soon.

If you do get a rental car, buy a Tom-Tom before you leave home and update it with the latest European maps. Also get the GPS package from the rental company. And also ensure you have a cell phone with at least a data plan for google maps. You need as many forms of navigation assistance as you can get. I'm not joking on this, be triple prepared.

Bring a variety of credit cards, and always have cash in the local currency with you at all times. If you pass through Switzerland (which I do recommend) they use Swiss Francs, not Euros. Obtain cash first through your local bank, use atm machines when you can in Europe, but don't get yourself into a situation where you are dependent on the atm working.

Plan, plan, plan, plan, plan every last detail. Europe is not like the U.S. Hotels don't necessarily have someone staffing the front desk 24 hours. Becomes a factor when, say, travel is delayed, the front desk closes down at 9pm, and your cell phone isn't working because you're currently in some remote part of the Alps. Ensure you are not staying at a dorm-style hotel. Do you want private or shared bathrooms/showers across the whole floor? Europe hasn't figured out what air conditioning is yet, factor that into the hotel plan.

Shops usually close at weird hours like 12pm-1pm, shop closes and everyone goes to lunch. Restaurants often are only open during meal hours - get into a city and need to find food at 3pm, you may be searching for a while unless you choose to pop in the McDonalds which are usually open all hours.

And some extra advice, you will be driving yourself nuts planning this. Simplify. You will not achieve perfection. I spent two weeks in Europe last year, marathon vacation, Munich, drive through the Alps to Nice, then back up through Switzerland, Heidelberg, then finally over to Prague. There were specific reasons for each stop, and meeting people I knew along the way. Even with the general guideline of where to be and when, I still spent nearly 100 hours planning this trip! And that was even factoring that I would have other people guiding me along through Heidelberg & Prague.

Airlines - figure out how important it is to choose your seat on the plane. Not all travel sites, not all airlines, allow you to reserve a specific seat. These are long flights to be stuck in a middle seat with no legroom. Choose an airline that is part of an alliance, I'd recommend the star alliance for mainland Europe. You will likely have connecting flights, you will want assurance that in the case of a flight disruption you can be placed onto an alternate flight back home in reasonable time. My trip last year was on SAS, and the first segment of the return flight out of Prague was delayed and I missed my connection Copenhagen to Chicago. They were able to put me on a flight into Newark departing only a few hours later and then a morning flight to Chicago through United Airlines.


Bottom line, simplify, reduce the number of cities, reduce the travel times, and plan to relax in a city for a few days at a time. Plan until you are sick of planning, then plan some more. But most of all, be prepared to be pissed off during the trip, and make sure you have the attitude where you can just go with it, move on, and enjoy the next part of the trip.

Europe is worth it. It's just a logistical bitch.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

i don't give a CRAP about seeing things like the mona lisa or going inside any museums. my wife doesn't care about museums either but i don't know if she cares about the mona lisa.

that kind of sucks that august is not a good time to go. we were planning mid-july but my wife could not get off in july but got off august 14th to the 28th so that is pretty much what we're going with at this point. september we have to fly to boston for a wedding so i doubt we'll go then. plus we've been putting this off so long too that we're ready to just go.

one thing i'm personally curious about doing is going to normandy and seeing the dday beach. saving private ryan is one of my favorite movies and it would be really cool to see where the real life event took place.

Late to the party but I thought I'd respond now and maybe give a better response tomorrow:

1. August is a terrible time to go for sure but you can make it work, I'm sure. Best time is shoulder season IMO. We're going to Ireland in July - not my first choice, but my wife's school schedule dictated it.
2. Not going to the Louvre is a colossal fail. The Mona Lisa sucks, but there is so much more to see there. It might be my single favorite place in the world. It doesn't JUST have art - it has a ton of historical artifacts too and don't forget, the Louvre itself is a former palace and it pretty freaking awesome in its own right.
3. Normandy is one of my favorite places - it is just full of awesome. We stayed in Bayeux at the same hotel Hanks and Spielberg stayed at during scouting for SPR and it had an awesome restaurant full of local specialties.
4. Agree with the people who say walking around Paris is the best part - it definitely is a fun experience.

EDIT: Now that I have some time, I'll give you more thoughts regarding Normandy:

1. I recommend staying in Bayeux. It is a cool little town that looks like it was lifted from the pages of a fairy tale. If you have interest in medieval stuff, the cathedral was built by a contemporary of William the Conqueror and there is a small museum there housing the Bayeux tapestry which is pretty freaking cool.
2. I believe the hotel we stayed at was Lion d'Or (http://www.liondor-bayeux.fr/en/). I was very nice but one bad thing was that it did not have AC. We went in early May so we didn't need it, but you will likely need AC in most places in Europe in August. Make sure your hotel specifically states it has AC, as many places in Europe DON'T have it.
3. You will want to take an organized tour of the beaches. I can look and see if I can find the company we used - they were AWESOME. They take you to the big sites but also take you to many back road churches and locations where fierce battles were fought. One thing that stood out to me was when you're driving the back roads of Normandy, you'll often run across small shrines which are dedicated to specific American soldiers or units and the guides will tell you the story behind it. They also took you into small towns and you got to see famous battle sites in each place.
4. We only toured the American sector but I wish we had also done the British and Canadian sectors as well. That will be a future trip!
5. As for the beaches themselves, Utah and Pointe du Hoc are the best IMO. At the top of Point du Hoc, the French government elected to leave the land pretty much untouched, so it is full of HUGE craters from the naval bombardment on D-Day.
6. Omaha Beach is a little disappointing because it is more built-up. The tide was in when we were at Omaha so the beach itself was somewhat obstructed. The funniest thing I saw is that someone lives in a trailer right off the beach and connected it to one of the German bunkers and are presumably using it for storage.
7. The American Cemetery is humbling and awesome.
8. From Bayeux, you can also take a day trip to Mont St Michel. I'm torn on Mont St Michel - I think it is worth doing once but probably not again, though it is spectacular to behold.
9. In terms of food, the region has many iconic specialties. Ones to try are camembert (a Norman cheese similar to brie), calvados (apple brandy), ciders (the region grows lots of apples), and salt-marsh lamb raised in the salt marshes around Mont St Michel. My wife had the lamb and said it was the best lamb she ever had and said it was quite different from other lamb she has had.

I've been all over the world and have loved almost every trip I've ever taken. When people ask me my favorite place, 2 or 3 places pop to my mind and Normandy is one of those places.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

so i've been looking more at to booking our trip and had a question for those of you who have been to europe...

would 2 weeks be enough to fly into italy, head west, and then pass through paris and end up in spain, if we wanted to see most of the "must see things" in the countries? like if we wanted to see venice, rome, then check out paris and possibly nice, then check out barcelona and seville in spain? if we tried to lump all of that into 2 weeks, would be just be racing pretty much the entire time we're there, not able to really enjoy anything?

2 weeks isn't nearly enough time to do that. Pick two cities and spend a week in each. You could easily spend 2 weeks in Paris and not see everything. You can probably hit the main highlights in Rome in 3-4 days - Forum, Vatican, Spanish steps, and just walking around and seeing the city.

I recommend watching the free Rick Steves shows (available online) to get some ideas about itineraries. His books are also good in that regard, though I think he misses some cool things.

 

[MongGrel]

I'd still be happy doing a Viking River Cruise myself these days in a couple of spots, but the wife hasn't been in the business a few years for the cheap discounts and just have never toured Europe myself.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I've never actually been to Spain, but I've heard great things about Barcelona and those southern areas. I doubt this has changed much, but Barcelona is supposedly super thievy. It generally isn't a problem for most people, but you should always be rather vigilant.

Barcelona is a really, really cool city. I only got to spend a couple of days there but will definitely go back one day. However, what you say regarding petty thievery is true in my experience. When I was leaving Barcelona in 2006, some lady had her purse swiped at the airport and it had her passport in it. She had to stay behind while the rest of her party left. D:

However, you should ALWAYS be vigilant in Europe as petty crimes are much more prevalent there than in most American cities. My rules:

1. Never take good jewelry with you.
2. Women should drape their purse straps across their bodies, not hang it off one shoulder. Makes it much harder to swipe. Their bags should always be zipped shut and possibly have something, such as a sweater, draped over them.
3. Some people wear money belts. I hate them. So I typically put my wallet in my front pocket and normally wear my camera bag so that it covers that pocket.
4. In places like Rome, beware of a group of kids approaching - they're likely a diversion for a pickpocket to swoop in.
5. Scammers are everywhere - beware of people approaching you with "free" flowers or claiming to have "found" a gold ring or coin they want to give to you. Just keep walking when they approach you.

 

[Xonim]

In 2 weeks of travel time, I wouldn't go to more than 3 cities, 4 at most. Anything more than that and your vacation is going to feel more like a chore than a vacation. If you want to see 5-6 cities, split it into two trips. Make Italy one trip and just go a 2nd time for Paris & Spain.

2. Not going to the Louvre is a colossal fail. The Mona Lisa sucks, but there is so much more to see there. It might be my single favorite place in the world. It doesn't JUST have art - it has a ton of historical artifacts too and don't forget, the Louvre itself is a former palace and it pretty freaking awesome in its own right.

I'm not an art museum guy, but I agree with this 100%. There's just something about walking into a huge room with MASSIVE paintings on the wall ... like, I didn't even know they made paintings that big. So much cool stuff. I spent about 4 hours browsing, and that was NOWHERE near enough time. If I ever go back to Paris (probably won't, wasn't really a fan aside from the Louvre), I'll definitely allocate 2-3 days just to that museum alone. It's incredible.