Performance-PCS is calling me a bad customer because they sent me the wrong screws

[IcePickFreak]

I side with the OP this one as well. The retailer got their money, the customer didn't get their parts. Then the customer is suppose to wait, money out of pocket, while the retailer gets their business in order?

Also, from the emails posted, it seems they just talk in circles.

From: James Davis <sales@performance-pcs.com>
To: Scott ;EK Edvard König <e.koenig@ekwaterblocks.com>
Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 8:54:02 AM
Subject: Re: Message from Performance-PCs.com

I understand your frustration. But what you fail to realize is just because an EK block is opened, does not mean it's not new. In EK history we've had to open hundreds of EK blocks to fix issues just like the one you're experiencing now. Incorrect TIM Pads, missing pads, incorrect hardware, missing hardware, incorrect instructions, defective parts..... We are doing our best to fix these parts but sometimes they make it through.

And we can send you all the hardware we have, but if it's still not right then you still can't use the part. We can open another package and see what it comes with, but we'd be right back where we are now with the next customer saying it's not new. We are doing everything we can but without a response from EK telling us what parts we're supposed to send, we have to simply wait. I'm hoping they can answer quickly so we can get this resolved. We'll Priority Mail the parts out as soon as they respond to us.

So they've had to open up "hundreds" of packages from their distributor, apparently including the one the OP received within a week or two of this email, but now they can't open another one to just check what is suppose to all be included? They don't have any of the other "hundreds" of already opened packages around? Seems like they aren't telling the full story of whats going on, on their end.

 

[CFP]

The odd thing is that this isn't the first time PPcs have ended up in hot water. I believe the other few cases I've read about them, the customer has been banned as well.

 

[Nemesis 1]

The problem you are failing to see is that it is not on the customer to seek status notices. The Retailer should have been a better communicator. Its all fine and dandy that you never had a problem with them, but the OP did. Leaving him hanging for over a week with no status updates is poor customer service. They could have easily avoided this situation by communicating with him. If the parts were out of stock, or they were waiting on the manufacturer, then they should have notified him.

Thanks OP for letting me know about this company. I'll definitely avoid them in the future.

What occurred in feb is not what I am concerned with . Its the refusal of service that raised my brow . To refuse to sell to someone to make MONEY, The god of all gods to the majority of westerners . Nope more to this I know the greed of the west .

.

 

[IcePickFreak]

What occurred in feb is not what I am concerned with . Its the refusal of service that raised my brow . To refuse to sell to someone to make MONEY, The god of all gods to the majority of westerners . Nope more to this I know the greed of the west .

.

How slyly you veil your trolling.

 

[waffleironhead]

What occurred in feb is not what I am concerned with . Its the refusal of service that raised my brow . To refuse to sell to someone to make MONEY, The god of all gods to the majority of westerners . Nope more to this I know the greed of the west .

.

Its a company that is forgetting who butters their bread. Plain and simple.

 

[taltamir]

E-mail is not guaranteed delivery of mail

I have had a LOT of mail be lost or delivered to the wrong address, I routinely get other people's mail...
E-mail? it might end in spam folder or someone might make a mistake (forgot to click send) but it is extremely reliable.

 

[SickBeast]

What occurred in feb is not what I am concerned with . Its the refusal of service that raised my brow . To refuse to sell to someone to make MONEY, The god of all gods to the majority of westerners . Nope more to this I know the greed of the west .

.

how dare ye scoff at thine own civilization. i order that thou must pay a penalty to the king in the amount of five farthings. D:

methinks thou dost protest too much.

btw, Christ is the God of all Gods to the vast majority of Westerners, thank-you very much. ()

This is a thread derail and is not acceptable

Moderator jvroig

 

[SickBeast]

as an aside, do you know what the key bird says?


key key...key key...key RISTE it's hot in here!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

/thread

**bows**


This is a thread derail and is not acceptable

Moderator jvroig

 

[Nemesis 1]

how dare ye scoff at thine own civilization. i order that thou must pay a penalty to the king in the amount of five farthings. D:

methinks thou dost protest too much.

btw, Christ is the God of all Gods to the vast majority of Westerners, thank-you very much. ()

I wish.You Sir have advantage over me . For some reason I have no emotions. >)


This is a thread derail and is not acceptable

Moderator jvroig

 

[SickBeast]

I wish.

it's the truth.

other gods are more prevalent in eastern cultures. the west is by-and-large Christian.


This is a thread derail and is not acceptable

Moderator jvroig

 

[SickBeast]

I wish.You Sir have advantage over me . For some reason I have no emotions. >)

Yeah, well, Lieutenant Commander Data had no emotions either but he got by just fine.

Perhaps you need to get some exercise. D:


This is a thread derail and is not acceptable

Moderator jvroig

 

[SickBeast]

besides, it's better for you to not have emotions for when i pwn you

sickbeast > j00

/thread

pwn3d

epic

**presses the log out button**


This is a thread derail and is not acceptable

Also, mods > sickbeast.

Moderator jvroig

 

[3DVagabond]

What occurred in feb is not what I am concerned with . Its the refusal of service that raised my brow . To refuse to sell to someone to make MONEY, The god of all gods to the majority of westerners . Nope more to this I know the greed of the west .

.

Greed is universal, just like charity. Your statement is pure bigoted rubbish.

This is a thread derail and is not acceptable

Moderator jvroig

 

[Rebel_L]

Im with the op on this too. Setting aside that it shouldnt take more than one phone call to find out what screws they were supposed to send him and a day to ship them so that his 9 days of waiting without word or screws should be considered a very long wait. Customer service is about dealing with people that are having a bad day, if things had gone as planned they wouldnt be talking to you. If you cant ignore angry customer responses and help them out you will certainly not be keeping customers that deal with your customer support for very long.

We are also all taught that if you want something from a company yell loud and you will get help quicker. I can get a better deal with my cell phone and cable company from threatening to quit than from being a long term good customer. As a rule any customer that pays his bills is a "good" customer. Labeling someone as a "bad" customer for being angry when his problem isnt being addressed and responding without sympathy to you trying to convince him that the problem isnt your fault while the customer is the only party around that is without the product or money is a "bad" company not a "bad" customer.

 

[darkewaffle]

I side with PPCs, I have to help deal with some people like this on days I try to lighten the load on the department I work next to, and when I get an email like his, I end up answering all the other mail first. When the majority of customers want to know the same thing but are at least cordial about it, you put yourself lower on the totem pole. Delay or not, that's way too hostile for what could have been a simple oversight.

Like it or not companies and the people who work in them are human and can make mistakes, but you can be professional and still make mistakes. What makes you a professional is that you fix it. PPCs didn't make a mistake when the product shipped with the wrong screws any more than Newegg makes a mistake when a video card arrives DoA; the fault lies with the supplier and assaulting the CS like that is just not going to be productive for either party. PPCs did make a mistake when not addressing the issue in a timely manner, but I guarantee you everyone here has misplaced an email or missed an appointment at one time or another. Yes they're a business, but nowhere does that make them infallible. If you had offered even a single ounce of empathy or etiquette, you'd still be doing business with them.

 

[Seero]

Here is one thing that most people missed, and that is why are the screws wrong? There is a difference between wrong screws vs the screws doesn't fit. May be, between EK and PPC, that was what happened.

PPC brought EK waterblock in mass order.
PPC discovered that several things are wrong within the package.

*say they have ordered 500 units of WC version A and 300 units of WC version B, and 400 units of WC version C. They didn't come in individual boxes but in parts with a Bill of Material to assemble them and there is an error on the BoM with mixed the thermal pad from version C to version A, and screws for version A to version B.
PPC received instruction from EK on how to replace the parts, but they have assembled many units already without knowing the mistakes beforehand. This is why they have to open up sealed boxes to replace the parts.

However, since the orders are in different quantity, they will end up spare parts laying around and needs EK to sent replacement parts over so all units can be sold. Yet, due to the chaos some units had already been shipped (Those who worked at that shipping floor thought that opened boxes units are ones that has been corrected), OP got one of those incomplete units where only part of the parts are replaced.

Now since customers don't ship back the extra parts they got, meaning either EK or PPC have to bare the cost of replacing those parts, argument can arise. That is, EK won't ship replacement parts without payment, and PPC is screwed and customers like OP are breathing at their neck, threatening them about "charge back" without returning the goods, doesn't want excuses, and want those missing parts that PPC doesn't have, or doesn't know which is the correct part, NOW NOW NOW.

OP probably doesn't even know what went wrong or what exactly s/he said that upset PPC. Based upon the context of the email, PPC's rep was trying to explain that the problem originated from EK, and they are working their best to resolve customer's issues related to this incident. Some can be resolved as they do have the parts, some can't as they don't have the parts at hand. I would assume that there is part of emails missing between Feb 5, 2011 and Feb 14, 2011. It may not come in as a direct reply to OP, but more like a general spam to all affected customers which OP may or may not have missed.

Many believed that customers are kings and queens, which is a total mistake. Service providers treat them as one so they have a sense to come back. To OP, this is PPC's screw ups. To PPC, that is EK's screw ups and they have to open each unit to fix it for PPC's own customers. Then here is customers who:

-Wants the part, not refund or exchange ASAP.
-Threaten to charge back without returning the goods, claiming it is not what they have ordered and it came in with seal broken.
-Believe that it is solely PPC's fault, not EK.
-Doesn't take any explanation.

We don't know if OP did charged back or not, and not once he explained that he received those screws. May be OP did charged back and therefore never got those screws.

 

[railven]

Here is one thing that most people missed, and that is why are the screws wrong? There is a difference between wrong screws vs the screws doesn't fit. May be, between EK and PPC, that was what happened.

PPC brought EK waterblock in mass order.
PPC discovered that several things are wrong within the package.

*say they have ordered 500 units of WC version A and 300 units of WC version B, and 400 units of WC version C. They didn't come in individual boxes but in parts with a Bill of Material to assemble them and there is an error on the BoM with mixed the thermal pad from version C to version A, and screws for version A to version B.
PPC received instruction from EK on how to replace the parts, but they have assembled many units already without knowing the mistakes beforehand. This is why they have to open up sealed boxes to replace the parts.

However, since the orders are in different quantity, they will end up spare parts laying around and needs EK to sent replacement parts over so all units can be sold. Yet, due to the chaos some units had already been shipped (Those who worked at that shipping floor thought that opened boxes units are ones that has been corrected), OP got one of those incomplete units where only part of the parts are replaced.

Now since customers don't ship back the extra parts they got, meaning either EK or PPC have to bare the cost of replacing those parts, argument can arise. That is, EK won't ship replacement parts without payment, and PPC is screwed and customers like OP are breathing at their neck, threatening them about "charge back" without returning the goods, doesn't want excuses, and want those missing parts that PPC doesn't have, or doesn't know which is the correct part, NOW NOW NOW.

You make a lot of assumptions that in the end don't matter to anyone but the vendor and its distributor. The customers shouldn't have to deal with a vendor's inept to keep items in stock or their poor handling of a distributor.

Inventory is pulled for a reason in most business that have various stock. They shouldn't fill an order if they aren't 100% sure they have the items in stock.

They openly admit to fiddling with products because of known issues, and here an issue they have experienced arsises and they openly say they won't fiddle with another product (order of another customer or not, or just standing stock) because of what? Someone said it best - they talk in circles.

So they took the screws out of Customer's A box to satisfy customer B's order, but won't take the screws out of Customer C's box to satisfy Customer B's order?

OP probably doesn't even know what went wrong or what exactly s/he said that upset PPC. Based upon the context of the email, PPC's rep was trying to explain that the problem originated from EK, and they are working their best to resolve customer's issues related to this incident. Some can be resolved as they do have the parts, some can't as they don't have the parts at hand. I would assume that there is part of emails missing between Feb 5, 2011 and Feb 14, 2011. It may not come in as a direct reply to OP, but more like a general spam to all affected customers which OP may or may not have missed.

Exactly, and that is an excuse, or as we call it around here "passing the bucket." It is most defintely their fault for not making sure they have adequate stock of something they are selling.

Many believed that customers are kings and queens, which is a total mistake. Service providers treat them as one so they have a sense to come back. To OP, this is PPC's screw ups. To PPC, that is EK's screw ups and they have to open each unit to fix it for PPC's own customers. Then here is customers who:

-Wants the part, not refund or exchange ASAP.
-Threaten to charge back without returning the goods, claiming it is not what they have ordered and it came in with seal broken.
-Believe that it is solely PPC's fault, not EK.
-Doesn't take any explanation.

We don't know if OP did charged back or not, and not once he explained that he received those screws. May be OP did charged back and therefore never got those screws.

As a service provider dealing with customers I know majority won't care why we're late, or why something is defective, or why something is causing them an inconvenience. All they know is it is affecting them negatively, and as a service provider it is our job to ease their discomfort, not make excuses or point fingers.

To be frank, his sarcastic E-mail was very timid to some of the stuff I've had to deal with - such as threats, physical harm, and etc. I'd rather be told off in an E-Mail by a customer than face to face.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Greed is universal, just like charity. Your statement is pure bigoted rubbish.

Try to rent properity from me I will show you bigoted. So fast it make your head spin. I choose who I serve no man or law changes that fact . I choose who I hire No man or law will ever change that . Proof is in how the pudding is served. I am a pure socialist . anthing less than pure is a lie .


This is a thread derail and is not acceptable

Moderator jvroig

 

[taltamir]

So they took the screws out of Customer's A box to satisfy customer B's order, but won't take the screws out of Customer C's box to satisfy Customer B's order?

It isn't a customer's order until you sell it to him. My experience is that you don't sell a package with missing components. You take apart UNSOLD packages for parts if need be to provide customers with a complete package and you either take the loss or later rebuild them into sell-able packages when you getting the missing part from the supplier.

 

[Seero]

You make a lot of assumptions...

Yes I did because there are so much we don't know.

Exactly, and that is an excuse, or as we call it around here "passing the bucket." It is most defintely their fault for not making sure they have adequate stock of something they are selling.

You seems to mis-interpret the reasoning. There are no passing the bucket, but time is needed to fix the problem at hand, and there are currently no stock/instruction available. What can PPC do if there are no stock? Is requesting the OP to ship the whole unit back for a proper refund or exchange reasonable? If so, did OP sent back the unit?

As a service provider dealing with customers I know majority won't care why we're late, or why something is defective, or why something is causing them an inconvenience. All they know is it is affecting them negatively, and as a service provider it is our job to ease their discomfort, not make excuses or point fingers.

The only finger pointing is from OP where OP strongly believed that the problem is within PPC and not EK. PPC never denies responsibility and promised to send correct screws back ASAP. What else do you expect to see? Again, for a proper refund or exchange, OP must return the unit at hand.

Now, what if OP did charge back on his/her credit card in the name of wrong product and later received those screws? Is he a bad customer in this case?

 

[veri745]

Both sides are at fault here. PPCs was slow to respond to a legitimate complaint.

The OP was a jackass with his email replies, and the threat of a chargeback was entirely uncalled for.

I certainly wouldn't have banned the OP from my e-tail store, but PPCs has every right to do so. All businesses have the right to refuse to do business with anyone and for any reason. The OP pissed them off, deal with it.

 

[railven]

Yes I did because there are so much we don't know.

Why do we, as customers, need to know, or even care, when a vendor is having issues with their supplier AFTER they took our order, processed our order, charged our order, and shipped our order?

The vendor openly admitted having issues with these type of orders, they should fix the issue internally before it gets to the customer&#8217;s hand. Regardless what is causing them their issue, it is their issue to resolve with the customer and throwing your distributor under the bus is nothing more than redirecting blame.

You seems to mis-interpret the reasoning. There are no passing the bucket, but time is needed to fix the problem at hand, and there are currently no stock/instruction available. What can PPC do if there are no stock? Is requesting the OP to ship the whole unit back for a proper refund or exchange reasonable? If so, did OP sent back the unit?

And I think this is where your assumptions our directing your arguments. The OP asked for the screws, that was his request, but he gave them 3 options to resolve his issue:
1) deliver the proper screws
2) a full refund
3) offer an exchange product

The consequence he set if none of those 3 options were picked was he&#8217;d issue a charge back. The Vendor themselves chose the option to deliver the screws, whatever the other options were and their follow-up, are now irrelevant since an option was picked. Had the vendor issued a full refund or exchange, we&#8217;d probably be reading in the E-Mail chain directions to return the defective/issue product or the vendor eating the loss and saying keep it.

The only finger pointing is from OP where OP strongly believed that the problem is within PPC and not EK. PPC never denies responsibility and promised to send correct screws back ASAP. What else do you expect to see? Again, for a proper refund or exchange, OP must return the unit at hand.

Sorry to break this to you, but the problem IS with PPC. They openly admit it. &#8220;Look guy, we got these issues where our distributor doesn&#8217;t send us the right stuff.&#8221; That is their issue, that is their job to fix, and regardless if EK is at fault or not, they let those issues slip to the customers. It is now their fault the customer got the wrong product because they openly admitted to fiddling with the products.

Again what does it matter what a refund/exchange entails &#8211; it wasn&#8217;t discussed further more after they chose to send the screws (key point &#8211; they chose to.) You&#8217;re just going to speculate in your favor.

Now, what if OP did charge back on his/her credit card in the name of wrong product and later received those screws? Is he a bad customer in this case?

Did he do a charge back? I don&#8217;t recall him saying he did, and outside of a threat it wasn&#8217;t followed up in the e-mail conversations. The OP as posted he&#8217;s said everything that has happened from his end. At this point we either take the OP&#8217;s statements at face value or insinuate he lying.

It isn't a customer's order until you sell it to him. My experience is that you don't sell a package with missing components. You take apart UNSOLD packages for parts if need be to provide customers with a complete package and you either take the loss or later rebuild them into sell-able packages when you getting the missing part from the supplier.

Exactly. They basically say that is what they do to make sure orders are complete, but in this situation they say they won&#8217;t do what they&#8217;ve done &#8220;hundreds&#8221; of times because they don&#8217;t want to affect another future order/customer? What!?

 

[SickBeast]

Try to rent properity from me I will show you bigoted. So fast it make your head spin. I choose who I serve no man or law changes that fact . I choose who I hire No man or law will ever change that . Proof is in how the pudding is served. I am a pure socialist . anthing less than pure is a lie .

i crush you bigotry with big stick. is russian. dangerous ting. D:


This is a thread derail and is not acceptable

Moderator jvroig

 

[Schmide]

There is one stark reality being shown here. A few people have stated here they will at least favor alternative venues to purchase water cooling equipment and PCS has lost at least 1 order from the OP. Maybe they have the perception that there is an unlimited customer base for a niche market or their ego/honor is more important than good PR.

Edit: Has anyone in this thread thought, I will favor PCS from the information here?

 

[SickBeast]

i personally don't understand watercooling to begin with. you can match it with air cooling without risking catastrophic failure of your $2000 rig, not to mention the fact that there will be way less maintenance involved.