Performed brain surgery today... PICS!!1!!1

[Nik]

Ah, one of Nik's many gifts. Scion of internet douchebaggery, resident ATOT desk aficionado, and expert vertebrate neurologist.

1) No trolling, flaming or personally attacking members. Deftly attacking ideas and backing up arguments with facts is acceptable and encouraged. Attacking other members personally and purposefully causing trouble with no motive other than to upset the crowd is not allowed.

You were saying?

 

[lxskllr]

learned behavior (I'm gonna get fed! I'm gonna get fed!)

not emotions

My cats come up to me without any regard for food. They'll do it with a full food bowl.

 

[Nik]

My cats come up to me without any regard for food. They'll do it with a full food bowl.

Getting petted feels good. In some cases, like scratching along the jaw, you're actually stimulating scent glands. Instincts say "yeah that feels good" to get the cat rubbing their jaw on objects as a way to mark their territory.

 

[lxskllr]

Getting petted feels good.

So does drinking beer, going to movies, getting laid... You know, all those things you like? ;^)

 

[Nik]

So does drinking beer, going to movies, getting laid... You know, all those things you like? ;^)

I'm not a cat and not all of those things make me happy. And I edited my post

 

[zinfamous]

I've always been of the notion that they don't have feelings. Is there anything to read on the net to support that they do?

I was raised with cats and dogs. They're dumb.

altruism, which has been exhibited in certain frog species and naked mole rats, lays some pretty strong evidence for empathy. There is a definite benefit towards protecting the colony, as it improves the survivability of the individual, but when you start noticing and documenting behaviors that were previously labeled unique in humans, that pedestal that we've built for ourselves starts to crumble a bit.

the more we come to understand the chemical pathways associated with memory and emotion, and the more we identify the genes necessary for such processes (mostly by studying the homologes in animals), the closer we become.

Believe what you want, I suppose, but claiming that animals do not think, or are mindless beings is not only foolish, but displays an elementary understanding of the mind, and advances in science.

 

[lxskllr]

I'm not a cat and not all of those things make me happy. And I edited my post

The point is you're driven to engage in activities that make you feel good too. If you walked up to my house, knocked 4 times, and I handed a beer to you every time, I'd probably never get your sorry ass off my porch :^D The end reward may be a bit more complicated, but you have the same motivations my cats do.

 

[djheater]

Ever since we've been defining what it is to be human, there's been documentation of animals demonstrating the same behavior.

Recent Porpoise and Ape research show that these animals can be self-aware, which we thought was a difference for a long time because chimps are notoriously bad at it. Dolphins and Bonobos seem to have no problem with it though.

So far as I know there's not one definable characteristic of human which is not displayed in the animal world. That's why we use them for research, to better understand ourselves through a more simple proxy.

Sure, we're very advanced animals. We've done things no other animals could or would think of. We're still just animals and our motivations and drives are the same as every other living thing on the planet. This shouldn't be disheartening, on the contrary it is a measure of the miraculous diversity of life.

Bonobos
Dolphins

 

[zinfamous]

That's evidence of emotions or evidence of some sort of self awareness? Some dog breeds go bat shit crazy seeing birds too but that's murderous-bastard-nomnom instincts. Dogs usually go nuts seeing cats too. What brings that about? A learned-hatred of them? I don't think so.

they recognize their owners immediately. Dogs, especially, are keenly tuned to human behavior, as they don't depend on vocalization for communication. They pay attention to eye movement, stance, hand movement, smell...arrays of signals that humans either can't notice, or are too dedicated to vocal communication to recognize.

The difference between a dog's reaction to stranger vs. seeing their owner is often quite different.

 

[Nik]

The point is you're driven to engage in activities that make you feel good too. If you walked up to my house, knocked 4 times, and I handed a beer to you every time, I'd probably never get your sorry ass off my porch :^D The end reward may be a bit more complicated, but you have the same motivations my cats do.

I'm not that simple. I'd knock once with a gun, you'd give me all your beer in one visit, and I'd leave. :awe: On the other hand, I know I could go downstairs and get a beer out of the fridge right now, which I really really want to be honest, but I'm too lazy.

I am not as simple as a cat.

 

[Nik]

they recognize their owners immediately. Dogs, especially, are keenly tuned to human behavior, as they don't depend on vocalization for communication. They pay attention to eye movement, stance, hand movement, smell...arrays of signals that humans either can't notice, or are too dedicated to vocal communication to recognize.

The difference between a dog's reaction to stranger vs. seeing their owner is often quite different.

Dogs understand vocal inflection and tone. Their brains process audio for a reason. Their brains also recognize shapes, colors, and faces. Interestingly enough, dogs process remember faces more than places while cats remember places more than faces. That doesn't mean they're somehow an emotionally complex individual.

 

[Kyle]

That's evidence of emotions or evidence of some sort of self awareness? Some dog breeds go bat shit crazy seeing birds too but that's murderous-bastard-nomnom instincts. Dogs usually go nuts seeing cats too. What brings that about? A learned-hatred of them? I don't think so.

huh? This dog doesnt go crazy seeing humans...it's this PARTICULAR one that the dog hasn't seen in years- yet remember- and goes crazy for. There's a connection to this particular human- yet it's being fed and loved by humans for years that this particular one is gone...
Yeah- some dogs go crazy when seeing ANY bird...or any cat...how is that relevent?

 

[zinfamous]

Yes, but they're not conscious actions. They're instinctual. I used to say to my puppy "awwww aren't you stupid? Yeah! You're stupid!" while smiling and petting her and she'd wag her tail and her tongue would hang out and she'd get all excited.

Nic....

sigh...it seems you really, really have no awareness about how foolish you sound.

Why should a dog know what you mean when you say "you're stupid?" They're language consists of an ability to recognize maybe 100 human words, usually commands. Communication for dogs is mostly display and smell, many of these signals being far more advanced than they are in humans.

So, you would smile and shake the hands of a person who doesn't understand your language, while saying "hello, you're stupid," and they smile back. Your infantile logic dictates that this person is therefore stupid, and likely non-sentient?

....

jesus H, man.

 

[zinfamous]

You were saying?

your butt?

it hurts?

awwwww.

 

[Nik]

huh? This dog doesnt go crazy seeing humans...it's this PARTICULAR one that the dog hasn't seen in years- yet remember- and goes crazy for. There's a connection to this particular human- yet it's being fed and loved by humans for years that this particular one is gone...

Yeah, so? Dogs recognize faces. Lots of animals do. Learned behavior. Maybe that person's body's particular Ph balance and pheromone signature is appealing to the dog for some reason. Remember, dogs have, like, a million billion brazillian times more sensative olfactories than humans do and can easily pick up on that kind of stuff.

That's one of the reasons bees chase scared people. They're attracted to a particular pheromone released when fear is felt.

A friend of mine who works in an animal shelter uses pheromone sprays to control aggression in the more violent dogs and cats that come through.

Yeah- some dogs go crazy when seeing ANY bird...or any cat...how is that relevent?

Demonstrating similar behavior without an emotional attachment. It's instinct for a beagle to go after a bird and kill it. It's instinct for that same beagle to wiggle and wag its tail and bark and jump up and down and act in a way that humans would perceive happiness in if other humans were reacting the same way when all the dog knows is that it might get fed or something.

 

[Nik]

Nic....

sigh...it seems you really, really have no awareness about how foolish you sound.

Why should a dog know what you mean when you say "you're stupid?" They're language consists of an ability to recognize maybe 100 human words, usually commands. Communication for dogs is mostly display and smell, many of these signals being far more advanced than they are in humans.

So, you would smile and shake the hands of a person who doesn't understand your language, while saying "hello, you're stupid," and they smile back. Your infantile logic dictates that this person is therefore stupid, and likely non-sentient?

....

jesus H, man.

Yes, because that one single point is the only point I've made in this thread and is the crux of my argument.

Really. Go fuck yourself. You can't even spell my goddamn name right and the only reason you're even getting involved with this thread is to argue with me.

 

[zinfamous]

Yes, because that one single point is the only point I've made in this thread and is the crux of my argument.

Really. Go fuck yourself. You can't even spell my goddamn name right.

well, each one of them has already been shown to be false. this is just another one.

You've already noticed my other responses to several of your points, yet you respond this way, somehow implying that I've only gone after one point?




I think I've figured something out here....you were really, REALLY young when you joined AT, right? b/c I seem to remember you being surprisingly young in some recent thread where the subject was raised.

I'm starting to think that during those formative years and up to now, you pretty much learned how to deal and interact with people (more or less "fake" people), through the internet. Or, at least, it was a large influence. I don't think it's simply youth, but there seems to some sort of psychosis that emanates from the internet kids.

 

[Nik]

I joined my senior year of high school.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Any other personal attacks you'd like to sidetrack this thread with?

 

[zinfamous]

You can't even spell my goddamn name right and the only reason you're even getting involved with this thread is to argue with me.

wow, serious issues dude.

you might noticed that i've posted in this thread earlier today, well before whatever comment I recently responded too. Didn't notice any of your posts earlier today, if there were any, I just saw the new gems.

issues man...issues follow you. I fucking guarantee you that didn't come in here to argue with you. I don't follow you around--I give two shits about you 98% of the time. Frankly, their are bigger douchebags out there mroe deserving of my wasted time . This "paranoia" that I'm responding to your posts only because I'm out to get you, or that I simply clicked on this thread only to annoy you, is such self-serving, delusional bullshit. You really, honestly sound like a child.

go cry to daddy/mods, whatever it is you like to do.

if you feel that your comments have failed so hard that you have no other avenue of defense, then why not leave, drink a beer, and watch some tentacle porn, or GI Joe cartoons, or something?

 

[Nik]

I can't be bothered to quote the several posts of yours that serve absolutely no purpose but to level personal attacks my direction, but it's not hard to find them.

Please continue insulting me, derailing this thread, if it makes you feel better about yourself.

 

[zinfamous]

I joined my senior year of high school.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Any other personal attacks you'd like to sidetrack this thread with?

well, you dropped the GFY. I guess short term memory isn't your strong suit?

my earlier comment about internet douchebaggery and and such was merely rehashing history. ()

I honestly thought you were kind of proud of the douchebag persona that you have so carefully cultivated?

 

[Nik]

Do you like how big your e-peen is getting with all these personal insults?

 

[lxskllr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtmLVP0HvDg

 

[zinfamous]

Do you like how big your e-peen is getting with all these personal insults?

you're purty.

come gimme a big wet one. :wub:

 

[Nik]

you're purty.

come gimme a big wet one. :wub:

Fuck yourself.