phase changes

[JF060392]

everybody knows that phase changes do not go any higher than plasma. supose they did what would this change be called?

 

[bobsmith1492]

What could be higher? Protons and neutrons break up into free quarks?

 

[BrownTown]

yeah, im sure if you heat something up enough you can break it down into smaller stuff that has different properties then the thing thats came before it. But at that point i don't really consider it a phase change since you have already destroyed the origional chemical. Not really sure if plasma is really tehcnically a "phase" in that manner since you have pretty much destroyed the origional compound anyways. But at that point its really just symantics about how you want to define phases.

 

[CycloWizard]

At least in plasma experiments that I'm familiar with (such as intercoupled plasma spectroscopy), the chemical is combusted to form the plasma. To do this, the chemical goes from the liquid phase to the gas phase (typically, though not necessarily), then is combusted - reacted with oxygen. I would define 'plasma' as a superheated ionic vapor. As such, it isn't really a chemical 'phase change', since this presupposes that the chemical has not reacted or been separated into its constituent atoms.

Merriam-Webster defines plasma as:

a collection of charged particles (as in the atmospheres of stars or in a metal) containing about equal numbers of positive ions and electrons and exhibiting some properties of a gas but differing from a gas in being a good conductor of electricity and in being affected by a magnetic field

 

[BrownTown]

I don't think you nescecarrily need to combust a chemical to make it into a plasma, im pretty sure you jsut have to heat it up enough, but still the argunment against plasms being a phase just like gas or solid seems good to me. When you go from solid to liquid to gas the arangement of the molocules change, but they are still bonded in the same way. But in the plasma 'phase' the bonds are ripped apart and the molocules no longer exist together, but as seperate ions.

 

[TheoPetro]

can you only create plasma with heat? or could you do it with pressure?

 

[BrownTown]

prolly only heat, youd have to be at really darn low pressure to rip apart those type of interactions.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
prolly only heat, youd have to be at really darn low pressure to rip apart those type of interactions.

i dont think the pressure has to be low as much as the temperature has to be high.

 

[BrownTown]

yes, i concur

 

[silverpig]

You can go higher than plasma. It's called a gluon-quark plasma. It happens only at hundreds of billions of degrees though.

 

[BrownTown]

yeah, and im sure there is something higher then that if you can rip those particles apart and make some other crazy type of plasma, but not sure what the heck the point is

 

[theMan]

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492
What could be higher? Protons and neutrons break up into free quarks?

yeah, but how could you sustain that amount of energy on the matter? it would be very dangerous. maybe on the sun or stars something like this exists.

Originally posted by: BrownTown
prolly only heat, youd have to be at really darn low pressure to rip apart those type of interactions.

yes, it would be high pressure, since temperature and pressure are directly proportional. its charles law: p/t = k

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492
What could be higher? Protons and neutrons break up into free quarks?

My guess would be the next step is breaking nuclei up into protons and neutrons.

I'd also guess that the answer lies in some collider/accelerator experiments.

Does cquark still post here? Haven't seen him in a while, he always knows this stuff.

 

[BrownTown]

yes, it would be high pressure, since temperature and pressure are directly proportional. its charles law: p/t = k

No, it would be low pressure, in order to cause a liquid you go to a gas you have to raise the temperature, or lower the pressure.

 

[TheoPetro]

Originally posted by: BrownTown

yes, it would be high pressure, since temperature and pressure are directly proportional. its charles law: p/t = k

No, it would be low pressure, in order to cause a liquid you go to a gas you have to raise the temperature, or lower the pressure.

k heres another question....

pressure is caused by molecules colliding with whatever your looking at. in a vaccume you remove these particles so this would be zero pressure. if this kind of thing doesnt happen in a vaccume how would it ever happen due to pressure? is there some way to make -p?

 

[stardrek]

Originally posted by: silverpig
You can go higher than plasma. It's called a gluon-quark plasma. It happens only at hundreds of billions of degrees though.

Gluon-quark plasma is exactly what they think is possible. I read about this in a physics class in college... http://www.lbl.gov/abc/wallchart/chapters/09/0.html

 

[imported_BigT383]

High heat=high pressure. Lowering the pressure causes liquids to turn to gas at a lower temperature, because it takes less energy for the molecules to move around (since the pressure "keeps them in their place").

Look at how air conditioners work. Compress the gas, it can't hold as much heat as a liquid so it lets it out. Decompress the gas and suddenly it can hold a lot more heat so it sucks in ambient heat.

Look back towards the big bang. That's where you see all of the phases of matter. The closer you get to it, the higher you go. Everything was much hotter then because it cools off as the universe expands. Just like in the air conditioner.