Phase One Medium Format

JohnnyRebel

Senior member
Feb 7, 2011
762
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I'm very interested in digital medium format. Following the link below, Joey Lawrence is using a Phase One P40+ on a Phase One DF body and 80mm Prime lens. He used Profoto portable power packs and heads. He is in Indonesia shooting the Mentawai People. I love his shots.

His story and behind the scenes photos
http://www.joeyl.com/blog/the-mentawai-12/

The actual shots are on http://www.joeyl.com/. Personal==>Mentawai

Does anyone here have experience with Phase One?

JR
 
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Sp12

Senior member
Jun 12, 2010
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You can get older ~20-30 megapixel backs, an old technical camera, and a few lenses for the price of a full-frame DSLR from any major manufacturer.

Won't give you that smoking high-ISO performance, but medium format is a whole new world with image quality and enlargements. I've shot full wedding parties with a 60MP back, and could've made workable 4*6 headshots for every one of 100+ guests in the shot. Narrow DoF is another big advantage.

His lighting is interesting.
 
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iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
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I would go with a film medium format and scan the neg/slide instead of getting a digital medium format camera due to insane price of digital.

IMHO, it is best to get a TLR 6x6, then get the Mamiya 6, Mamiya 7, or Pentax 645 once you out grown the TLR.

Unless you have money to burn.
 
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JohnnyRebel

Senior member
Feb 7, 2011
762
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Unless you have money to burn.

I do not have money to burn.

But, I am going to spend about ten grand next April.

I don't have any modern equipment, nor any pro glass. I shoot a company-owned D700 at work. I recently sold my old D2H. At the house I still shoot 35mm (F4, Trip 35, and AE-1) as a hobbyist, andt did shoot for a newspaper in the 80's. I have a D40 and a D200 that are very satisfactory for my personal projects. I do some freelance work for local groups (Youth Orchestra, SEACT (acting group), dance troups, etc...)

My first thoughts are a D700, a 70-200 f/2.8 lens and a few select primes. I want to continue shooting live performances, but really love shooting portraits. I do not want a studio, and want to shoot in natural light. I would like to be able to make poster size prints and I still will need good low light performance to shoot live events in available light.

JR
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
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Go for it if you have the money for a medium format digital camera, because a digital sensor of the best medium format is roughly 2X the area of a 35mm full frame sensor.

I'm not verse with digital cameras, but if it is anything like the past, then the maximum good quality print would be 11"x14" from a 35mm full frame camera (35mm/Velvia 50/Cibachrome). That mean that you can get good prints up to 20"x30" with a digital medium format.

With good lens and good film, a medium format can push up to 30"x40". And, anything larger is in the territory of large format camera.

PS. I owned a 4x5 Linhof in the past, and several medium format cameras, and have shot quite a few shorts with 8x10 cameras.
 

JohnnyRebel

Senior member
Feb 7, 2011
762
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0
Phase One backs are a pain in the butt and absolutely not worth the premium over a high quality full-frame 35mm camera from my experience.

I've had a number of people tell me the same. In fact, many are of the opinion that the results from the D3X are sufficiently close that, except for some very few situations, there is no appreciable difference.

JR
 

spikespiegal

Golden Member
Oct 10, 2005
1,219
9
76
I would go with a film medium format and scan the neg/slide instead of getting a digital medium format camera due to insane price of digital.

Sure, and medium format film scanners are free, right?

I've owned several 645 and 6x7 cameras, and have printed / scanned extensively from all of them. The only way to beat the current crop of FF digital cameras with MF is to scan at 4000dpi, and that's using a REAL 4000dpi scanner. That's typically a drum, or a very good X-Y flatbed. Note I didn't say Epson, or any other low end flatbed that are junk.

I've been comparing my 60D out-put to some older 645 scans, and the 60D is superior. These are drum scans mind you.

The other day I was cleaning up some Nikon 8000 scans from my RB67, and caught severe noise/tracking issues in the shadows that will require extensive PP to clean up.

The big advantage with MF is optics, and especially wide angle. Wide optics on APS-C and even FF digital are a big issue right now unless you want to deal with the exotics like the Leica M9. The larger projection circle of MF however takes some of the stress off because at 6x7cm you can practically use a Pepsi bottle and not have to worry about optics.

So, unless you're willing to factor in the price for a capable MF film scanner, or setting up an optical / chemical darkroom you are far better off going FF digital over MF film.

I'm not verse with digital cameras

Purpose in this thread then?

For the record, I was one of the first people who started using digital contrast masks for Cibachrome printing, and my metal prints from my 60D kick the overly hyped Ilford process so hard in the nads it's an utter joke.

Also, 11x14 doesn't match 35mm and never has. You need to either crop, or print with un-even borders.
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
1
0
Sure, and medium format film scanners are free, right?

I've owned several 645 and 6x7 cameras, and have printed / scanned extensively from all of them. The only way to beat the current crop of FF digital cameras with MF is to scan at 4000dpi, and that's using a REAL 4000dpi scanner. That's typically a drum, or a very good X-Y flatbed. Note I didn't say Epson, or any other low end flatbed that are junk.

I've been comparing my 60D out-put to some older 645 scans, and the 60D is superior. These are drum scans mind you.

The other day I was cleaning up some Nikon 8000 scans from my RB67, and caught severe noise/tracking issues in the shadows that will require extensive PP to clean up.

The big advantage with MF is optics, and especially wide angle. Wide optics on APS-C and even FF digital are a big issue right now unless you want to deal with the exotics like the Leica M9. The larger projection circle of MF however takes some of the stress off because at 6x7cm you can practically use a Pepsi bottle and not have to worry about optics.

So, unless you're willing to factor in the price for a capable MF film scanner, or setting up an optical / chemical darkroom you are far better off going FF digital over MF film.



Purpose in this thread then?

For the record, I was one of the first people who started using digital contrast masks for Cibachrome printing, and my metal prints from my 60D kick the overly hyped Ilford process so hard in the nads it's an utter joke.

Also, 11x14 doesn't match 35mm and never has. You need to either crop, or print with un-even borders.
If digital works for you and you have money then it is perfectly logical to go that route. However, other people may not have as much money as you, hence we are more incline to stick with traditional film and Cibachrome prints. And, I do agree with you that it make perfect sense to go with full frame digital cameras over that of medium format film due the the added expense and work.

PS. Please adjust your panties.

[edit]

Canon CanoScan 9000F Color Image Scanner -- 9600 x 9600 (Optical) dpi1 for $174.99
 
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spikespiegal

Golden Member
Oct 10, 2005
1,219
9
76
If digital works for you and you have money then it is perfectly logical to go that route.

How much would you like to bet right here that I (or anybody else) can post a better image from our $1,000-500 dSLRs than *ANY* film scan you can post? Realizing every digital forum has to have a couple film trolls looking for attention, am I the only one who finds this annoying? The more annoying thing is you don't know anything about classic chemical photography either.

hence we are more incline to stick with traditional film and Cibachrome prints.

Cibachrome printing was phased out over a decade ago, and as of present I don't know of any professional lab in the U.S. using the process. The material, which is actually known as 'Ilfochrome' if you knew what you were talking about went obsolete when labs figured out they could scan trannnies and out-put to LightJets on C-type media from the more controlled RA-4 process. No more need for contrast masks and funky R-type printing. I used to print Ciba's commercially, until we got our first Howtek drum, and then the process died.

No self respecting professional photographer I knew of messed with Cibas post film scanner. Next to Tiger Wood's career I don't know of a product that died so fast. Epson Ultrchrome Inks actually have a better gamut (aside from magenta) and better archival characteristics. If you liked raunchy, inaccurate color and blown highlights it's the process for you. The best Cibachrome you'll ever see would get rocks thrown at it if you put in a a gallery compared to a metal transfer print made from a T3i.

Also, I'm capable of printing my own color MF and LF negs to fine art standards in a darkroom, and calibrate all the enlargers and chemistry lines. Good bet if you actually have your film printed you have a mini-lab do it for you. Or, they most likely just throw it on a cheap scanner and digitally print it.

9600 x 9600 (Optical) dpi1 for $174.99

If you read the instructions on the scanner, it's actually 2400dpi NATIVE resolution. It's not 9600, which is interpolated. Also, reviews of the Canon along with the Epson show them to be around 1800 fuzzy DPI. If I have to scan I'll at least use an Imacon, or Tango Drum, which at 4000-5000 dpi NATIVE dpi shows the molecules on the edges of film grain they are so sharp. Even so, my 60D out-put keeps up marvelously and is only edged out by my 6x7 scans.

Last, a film scanner *is* a digital camera, and nobody with common sense can justify taking a digital sample of industrial film dye over a digital sample of the original scene. It's moronic basically, which is why the only legitimate film shooters I know of stick to 4x5, and that's mostly because of perspective controls (they don't like doing it in software).

As I instructed the OP, film requires a scanner costing in excess of $10,000 to truly compete with the newer FF and MF digital cameras. Or, you can send your film out to be scanned, which means you're stuck to shooting transparency because no commercial drum lab is going to screw with print film profiles.

Please adjust your panties.

At least I can (1) afford underwear and (2) don't hang out in digital forums talking about chemical based processing and film with no clue as to how it works.
 
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Sp12

Senior member
Jun 12, 2010
799
0
76
There's issues with microlense-CA and blown highlights (not to mention color depth and balance, color bloom, moire/AA filters), as well as microdetail falloff that still give large format film the advantage for landscape and high-end portraiture.

Digital has no detail past pixel-pitch, has no detail in blown highlights, and only has as much color separation as the bayer pattern can composite out. Only the Hassy 80 backs in 6-shot bode clearly perform on par with film in terms of performance.

Film only has these advantages when using low-ASA large formats. At ISO 200 I'd say my old Xsi was about as good as a 6*7 slide. There is no place for 35mm film of any type. 35mm and MF digital is close, and infinitely easier and more accessible with more options in compact bodies. If you're going for the absolute best landscape detail there's still a place for large format film.
 
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